Ever use non copper crush washers?

[96ETT]

I bought a gasket set from a vendor on here and received them and none of the gaskets look anything like the picture. Be that as it may, the crush washers are not even copper as advertised. Does this seem normal or what?

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[Bud92gsx]

WTF..I know a vendor or two sells non copper crush washers..But I'm not taking a chance putting things together, then it leaks where the proven crush washers should be.

I would call them, and ask them whats up.

 

[96ETT]

Well the picture on the website is clearly different and what I wanted... Maybe thats why it was cheap. What really chaps my ass is that it is advertised as copper crush washers, and the O2 gasket looks like a metal one not the crappy fiber kind I got.

 

[007jimmy]

i would definitly contact the vendor and see whats up. if the ad says something like "actual parts may vary" your screwed though and i wouldnt use them washers or gasket

 

[My1GLaser]

I use Aluminum crush washers on various items myself. They are actually stock for a 1G oil squirter.

As for the O2 housing gasket, I ran one for over a year on my 18g. They seal fine and you shouldn't have any issues if the flanges are flat and you tighten the bolts correctly.

 

[turboglenn]

I agree that when stated "copper crush washers" you should receive COPPER ones, but as said above, i've used aluminum ones on many many applications and have no difference in performance

to name a few

the banjo fittings on Tial wastegates
Stock brake fittings on suzuki GSX-R 750 (2003)
Some of the stock applications of banjo fittings on OEM mitsu stuff like turbo cooling lines, oil cooler, etc...

I was actually told that copper ones are best for steel and cast iron parts andthat aluminum is used on aluminum and other softer metals (being that copper is harder to "crush" than aluminum) so that being said the material of choice seems to depend on the strength of the threads/materials you're using them on in comparison to how hard the aluminum or copper washers are to get crushed

Best of luck, and i've had 3 different looking gaskets for about everything on the mitsu over the years and they all seem to work pretty good, I actually prefer the "graphite" manifold gaskets myself although most others seem to like the multi layer steel and copper ones, I've had better sealing out of the graphite and/or lead coated ones

 

[96ETT]

Well no I go to install the exhaust manifold stud kit I got also and the studs all bottom out in the blind holes before seating on the non threaded parts. See picture. So basically as soon as I torque my manifold down it could gall all the threads in my head... What a bunch of crap.

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[Bmxr152]

wow i would be pissed, thats no bueno.

 

[And_44]

Could use a thread chaser on the threads. But thats not a whole lot sticking out. Just make sure they are torqued and if the unthreaded part sticks past the manifold you could use up to 2 washers under the nut. No more the 2 though.

 

[DSM Jeff]

I use aluminum crush washers all day. They are on Audi's so when I need some, I just hit up the parts department for my own cars. I'm not a fan of either type of turbo gasket's you got. I sick to the oem multi layer manifold to turbo gasket and the metal turbo to o2 housing.
Also for your studs, do you have a way of measuring the depth of the hole and the length of the stud? I would think they should be right on. (I've never seen any real longer ones on the head side) Are you double nutting them to install?

 

[96ETT]

Could use a thread chaser on the threads. But thats not a whole lot sticking out. Just make sure they are torqued and if the unthreaded part sticks past the manifold you could use up to 2 washers under the nut. No more the 2 though.

You should never torque a stud/nut that is bottomed out in a blind hole. It will gall all the threads and ruin the base metal or the fastener or both.

Also for your studs, do you have a way of measuring the depth of the hole and the length of the stud? I would think they should be right on. (I've never seen any real longer ones on the head side) Are you double nutting them to install?

I measured the holes in the head to be 20mm deep, but only threaded 14mm deep. The new studs are threaded on their shortest side for 15mm. So they will not work properly. The old studs were 13mm on their shortest side. Only reason I bought new ones is because half the studs were missing and bolts were used.

Again if I double nut them and tighten them it will gall the threads. The studs threaded portion need to be shorter than the threaded hole to work properly.

 

[And_44]

Could take a grinder to end of studs and shorten them up. And they don't get torqued that much 15lb I believe.

Also is that stud pictured above in the lower center hole? If so it should really not bottom out at all behind that is an oil galley. If its bottomed out you have got an issue. Broken stud way deep in head. I'm sure you can find the measurements of the studs online and see if you got sent the right ones too.

 

[96ETT]

Could take a grinder to end of studs and shorten them up. And they don't get torqued that much 15lb I believe.

Also is that stud pictured above in the lower center hole? If so it should really not bottom out at all behind that is an oil galley. If its bottomed out you have got an issue. Broken stud way deep in head. I'm sure you can find the measurements of the studs online and see if you got sent the right ones too.

No this isnt the oil galley one. First I am going to see what the vendor says. If i had to modify them to work thats bs. They arent that damn expensive, just supply the right ones.

 

[Michael@FP]

Since this is already posted publicly I'll answer publicly and ignore the e-mail you sent Chris.

Those studs are the same studs we've used for eons and never had a single person state they were wrong, perhaps you should send a tap down there to make sure you don't have trash stuck in those holes.

The aluminum crush washers we find work better and are more fool proof against people who may get a little ever zealous with their torque specs on a banjo bolt. The site does read copper crush washers which is an oversight we haven't ordered those in at least 6 months I'll be changing that today.

As for the gaskets, that's perfectly normal for a $30 dollar kit, the MHI gaskets are much more expensive in fact just one gasket I sell for about $27 alone. Unfortunately we don't have a lot of time here to update our website photo's and what you see there is MHI gaskets. That does seem a little misleading to me so if you'd like I'd gladly take the gasket kit back as a return and refund you your purchase price I can even send you a UPS label if you'd like.

Sorry for the confusion.

- Michael

 

[ramsack]

Get a finishing tap and tap the threads all the way down. Some people think the tapered taps are all that exist. They are used to create the threads. Then an intermediate tap is used to go even deeper. Then the last cut is a finishing tap that threads as far deep as possible.

 

[96ETT]

Look I didn't mean to call you out or anything, its just that I have never ordered from you and clearly didn't get what was in the picture so I figured I would see what's up.

Also I'm damn sure there is nothing stuck in my head but I will borrow a blind tap from my work to make these studs fit I guess.

Also I just checked the site, I see all you did was remove the word copper from the page and add actual product may vary. That is still so misleading because you and I know that the product WILL vary. Please take a correct picture and list it properly. I mean even the eBay sellers properly depict what you get...

I'll keep the parts, I mean if you say they will work ill use them.

 

[Michael@FP]

Chris help me out here man, I'm using the name you gave me in your e-mail and can't find you in my system did you order direct from us or through another one of our resellers?

Thanks

-Michael

 

[99gst_racer]

There's nothing wrong with aluminum crush washers. I use them more often then copper. They deform less than the copper ones, so they are easier to reuse if the need arises.

 

[96ETT]

Check that last name in my email, or the email for that matter, you'll find it. Chris is my middle name which I generally go by. I'd prefer not to share all that info on the forums.

 

[Michael@FP]

Check that last name in my email, or the email for that matter, you'll find it. Chris is my middle name which I generally go by. I'd prefer not to share all that info on the forums.

Ah found you.

Look I didn't mean to call you out or anything, its just that I have never ordered from you and clearly didn't get what was in the picture so I figured I would see what's up.

Also I'm damn sure there is nothing stuck in my head but I will borrow a blind tap from my work to make these studs fit I guess.

Also I just checked the site, I see all you did was remove the word copper from the page and add actual product may vary. That is still so misleading because you and I know that the product WILL vary. Please take a correct picture and list it properly. I mean even the eBay sellers properly depict what you get...

I'll keep the parts, I mean if you say they will work ill use them.

I know that wasn't your intent but going straight to the internet and making a public thread before contacting the person you're doing business with is kind of shitty. We're not out to screw you or send you parts you didn't pay for, and I genuinely want to help you. I know you tried your best to hide our identity but there's not a lot of vendors still doing this and the picture you posted is a dead give away so I figured it's best to just post it publicly.

I've changed the website to more closely reflect what you're getting, and I may not be selling these any more since I'm out of outlet gaskets and don't know if I'll be ordering anymore. In fact I'll probably talk to my supplier today and the product page may be removed permanently. If it stays I'll make sure as soon as I have the outlet gaskets restocked I'll update the photo ASAP as to avoid any further confusion.

As for the studs, compare the studs that came out of your head to the studs going in. Is there a length difference? I'm going to go pull a set from stock right now as well as pull a stud from a test motor we have here to compare myself. I assure you though this is the same part number we've been selling since we introduced this kit, but I'll double check what I have to make sure it's correct.

Thanks

- Michael

 

[96ETT]

Well its not like I went out and made a my own website about it. I simply asked for some advice from others with more experience on a forum which your a member of. That's part of the reason for these forums right?

Check post #11 for my findings with the studs. Again I'm not saying your stuff is wrong, but it doesn't match or work the same as what came out of the head.

 

[99gst_racer]

So, is the short end of the new stud physically longer than the one you removed?

 

[96ETT]

Yes, that is the issue, it is about 2mm longer when I can only measure about 1mm more of thread in there.

 

[And_44]

Well if it's a dead end hole (no oil galley) and threaded to 14mm BUT 20mm deep you could technically just tap the remaining 1mm (2mm for margin)

But sounds as if maybe the threads are there just packed with debris..... Or have these holes been enlarged already? 8mm to 10mm.

Also I've been to Action Auto (now Baxters) and they sell studs at custom lengths depending on what you need. Relatively cheap too.

 

[96ETT]

Well if it's a dead end hole (no oil galley) and threaded to 14mm BUT 20mm deep you could technically just tap the remaining 1mm (2mm for margin)

But sounds as if maybe the threads are there just packed with debris..... Or have these holes been enlarged already? 8mm to 10mm.

Yes I could but I would need to find a blind tap, since a normal tap will not make threads for the first several mm.

And I not going to say it again, but it is not filled with debris in there. I know how to use my flashlight and eyeballs to verify that. And why would I enlarge the holes? I never said the studs weren't the right diameter or thread pitch.