Engine balancing [Merged 6-7]

[Stock90GSXT]

Okay. I need some advice. I removed the balance shafts out of my 6bolt. I have heard two different sides.

1. The engine is'nt balance w/o those, so get the Rods, Pistons, and Crank,flywheel balanced

2. The engine is already balance w/o the balance shafts, they were just there to remove vibration so customers would'nt complain.

I was thinking. If the engine was vibrating. then its not balanced. I need imput from the people who have had experiance in removing the balance shafts. Is it worth it to balance the bottom end. Or is it a waste of money?. Keep in mind. I will be changing the perimeters by installing 95+ pistons on my 1g Rods. I know anytime you change stuff like that its recommended to balance the engine.

 

[absolute_DSM]

Id go for a more import specialized approach. If you REALLY need to get it done, then go right ahead. Ive been in a tight spot and ended up just buyin a complete engine to temp throw in.

If you can leave work early for NAPA, why cant you leave early for Speedworlds?

 

[Defiant]

The entirety of a 4-cylinder's reciprocating parts have to be balanced. Skipping the procedure on a performance engine is akin to re-using bearing inserts and piston rings.

 

[2point3Tsi]

I'm currently $5000 into a 6 bolt build that I had estimated to cost around $3000.
I found out quickly that it's not worth it to save a little bit of money by cutting corners.

Couldn't agree more with uberfast. Timing belt issues through aftermarket parts and unreputable work equal me building up my motor proper this time. My $3000 6-bolt 2.3 build quickly exceed $5500 for the motor alone but I now have the peace of mind that all forged internals are going in balanced with new OEM parts.

 

[Defiant]

Ask your local mechanics who they recommend. Where they work doesn't matter, it's who's working there.

 

[Low Impedance]

case in point, there is a napa on the westside that i has some serious capabilities. Mostly because the guy has been doing funny cars for 15+ years. I trust the guy who built his high 5 second funny car on my low 13 second heap.

 

[wortdog]

The entirety of a 4-cylinder's reciprocating parts have to be balanced. Skipping the procedure on a performance engine is akin to re-using bearing inserts and piston rings.

He's using aftermarket parts which have already been balanced as a set(unless Eagle's quality control really sucks), and a crank that was already balanced from the factory. Let me repeat that 4-cylinders do not need to be balanced as a rotating assembly, only the individual parts must be balanced.

 

[joe_30psi]

Not to bust eagle, because i have built many engines with them but i have had problems with some of the wrist pin holes needing to be honed to get the pin through them. my machinest told me that balancing the rods and pistons is a waist of time because they are almost always perfect weight of each other within a gram or so. Its a good idea to spin the crank to make sure its where it needs to be though. my 2 cents

 

[SnowBird]

Id go for a more import specialized approach. If you REALLY need to get it done, then go right ahead. Ive been in a tight spot and ended up just buyin a complete engine to temp throw in.

If you can leave work early for NAPA, why cant you leave early for Speedworlds?

I cant leave early for NAPA, they are open on saturday as speedworld isnt. Im going to go to a local shop here in Tampa, thanks for not letting me make a mistake.

 

[racemygsx]

A little tip to remember: Its not a matter of where you take your parts thats important, its who is working on them. You want someone that knows what they are doing. Someone that might be great with some engines/ transmissions might not know a whole lot about others. Find someone who has had experience with your parts.

 

[Defiant]

Let me repeat that 4-cylinders do not need to be balanced as a rotating assembly, only the individual parts must be balanced.

Is a bubble level good enough for your tires and wheels?
You listen to different machinists than I do. Mine have sold me on dynamic balancing of the assembly. If they're starting out with equaled parts, so much the better.

 

[dave99gst]

ive had flywheels ground at napa - and heads re-done there.
I didnt have any problems.

 

[SnowBird]

90 6 BOLT - I took my new pistons and stock rods to have pistons put on and balanced, and I took my crank and crank pulley to be balanced. They basically said it didnt need to be balanced even after I told them I could have sworn it was one of the pieces that NEEDED to be balanced. Should I just take it back up there and tell them to do it anyways? Its a stock pulley.

Can anyone tell me why it needs to be balanced? When he asked me why I told him It just has to be because its part of the rotating assembly. Could I give them a better reason?

 

[hopwoodp]

90 6 BOLT - I took my new pistons and stock rods to have pistons put on and balanced, and I took my crank and crank pulley to be balanced. They basically said it didnt need to be balanced even after I told them I could have sworn it was one of the pieces that NEEDED to be balanced. Should I just take it back up there and tell them to do it anyways? Its a stock pulley.

Can anyone tell me why it needs to be balanced? When he asked me why I told him It just has to be because its part of the rotating assembly. Could I give them a better reason?

Well, ask them what the purpose of the harmonic balancer is and why its a totally bad idea to have it machined? Then tell him that you need to take your parts somewhere else. You are supposed to have all the rotating parts balanced at the same time unless you plan on using a fluidyne harmonic balancer.

This guys sounds like he wants to cut some corners. Just take the block to someone else.

 

[SnowBird]

Well, ask them what the purpose of the harmonic balancer is and why its a totally bad idea to have it machined? Then tell him that you need to take your parts somewhere else. You are supposed to have all the rotating parts balanced at the same time unless you plan on using a fluidyne harmonic balancer.

This guys sounds like he wants to cut some corners. Just take the block to someone else.

I hear ya. Im just gonna buy a new pulley since it was chirping anyways.

 

[hopwoodp]

I hear ya. Im just gonna buy a new pulley since it was chirping anyways.

Thats cool but. you do realize it will cost you over $400 for this particular type of damper. It would be alot cheaper just to buy a new oem pully and have that balanced but, thats entirely up to you. Good luck! =)

 

[just2asian]

I would definitely get the crank balanced if your using a whole new set of pistons with it. It might be a different story if your just tearing the block down to check and maybe replace some bearings and not touch the other components, but if you have new pistons a balance of the crank should be in store. It's not gonna hurt to do it and it may save you headaches.

 

[RamenPride]

I've never heard of a crank pulley/harmonic balancer needing to be balanced. Just take it out of the box and put it on.....

 

[hopwoodp]

I would definitely get the crank balanced if your using a whole new set of pistons with it. It might be a different story if your just tearing the block down to check and maybe replace some bearings and not touch the other components, but if you have new pistons a balance of the crank should be in store. It's not gonna hurt to do it and it may save you headaches.

Yeah, I'm sorry - if they don't want to balance your crank with the other parts - get your stuff from them and get the heck out of there. Any place like that, that cuts corners must be avoided. Who knows what else they are skipping on. Find a good shop in your area that know what they are doing. If you need to, bring a mechanic to inspect the work to make sure its good.

 

[SnowBird]

Thats cool but. you do realize it will cost you over $400 for this particular type of damper. It would be alot cheaper just to buy a new oem pully and have that balanced but, thats entirely up to you. Good luck! =)

I meant a new OEM pulley, Im gonna buy a new one from NAPA and have them check to see if its balanced.

RAMENPRIDE: Im going to buy a new one and put it on, but I want to make sure its balanced, I can tell mine wobbles just by looking at it and I throw belts every now and them, I just want to make sure the first time.


JUST2ASIAN: They are balancing my crank, and rods and pistons, they just insisted I didnt need the pulley done.

Ill put up a post when I find out if the NAPA pulley comes balanced well.

 

[gsx951]

The crank damper (we do not use Harmonic Balancers on our motors) has no effect on the balance of an internally balanced assembly and can be balanced separately if needed.
On an in-line 4, the crank counterweights are adjusted and weights of the pistons and rods are made equal.
What the shop told you was correct.

 

[just2asian]

oh gotcha, you u don't need to balance a harmonic balancer, only the crank.

 

[selmerguy]

So if the crank is balanced from the factory and you put new rods and pistons that all weigh the same, should'nt it be balanced allready? I guess it would be worth the money to check but I be it is close.

 

[MarsaGSX]

hey,
Do you know some shop in U.S. or somewhre on this planet I can send my SOHC 6Bolt crank(std specs) for micropolishing,Cryo treat and balanced whole rotary assembly(will send my pistons+rods..Carrillos+Mahle+ACL race)

wanna turn 10k rpms and Iam affraid of my SOHC cranks performance..So wanna balanced whole rotary assy for high revs,and get stronger crank for like 700AWHP..Was thinking about Eagle crank..but everyone on this forum told me its not worth for me..and secondly..my budget will be okay if can stay with my SOHC crank..
Wanna break 10sec..9.99sec@1/4mile and Iam
So will be great if can send my crank for micropolishing and CRYO..and then balance my whole rotary assy(I will send my rods and pistons to them from vendor..)You can check Iam from Czech, for me is TWICE Worst to do all the build/mods..have to work twice than US guys... ,shipping price is killing me..then Customs duty!!

and maybe if you can give some pricing

BTW any GOOD used STD SPECS!! 2.0l 6Bolt crank for sale???

Thanks
Venca

 

[silver bullit]

I think there is a sponser on here that does that i dont remember if they are still on here.

 

[DSMunknown]

Venca, you can try FFWD. Look at the link below (scroll all the way down to the bottom):




http://www.ffwdconnection.com/20new.shtml




I'm not sure if they offer this to the public, or if they just use this on the engines they build. But you can give it a shot. A simple phone call or email will do.