Electric AC Compressor swap.

[1995silvergst]

Specs

 

[1995silvergst]

While looking for electric drivin compressors I ran across a very interesting company. They manufacture a/c compressor/motor conversions for law enforcement and other service vehicles, I wonder if we could get a group buy together with them?

Battery Air Conditioning | Buy Online | eCycle, Inc.

 

[miguelmcv]

Wow, that's a good one.

I read the site and there is not much information about the compressor, But It looks like it will work better then the sierra, considering the compressor with motor is way, but way bigger then the sierra.

But for 12v, it is more suitable and have more BTU,.
It shows it has only a couple of moths of warranty after the purchase which that's almost nothing.

At the time you have the system running, the warranty will be expired and you will have no back up on the product.

However, I will send an Email about the compressor and see what happens.

Thanks for the Link though.

 

[91-GS]

That is a nice link. Nice (looking) set-ups too. Is 7500 BTU/hr enough for a car? Would be nice to have something like that, although would probably need an extra battery "just in case". And while it won't be taking power directly from the motor and can be used for an hour or two (depending on battery size) with engine off, is adding extra weight of battery and the pump better than taking little bit of power from the motor from time to time?

 

[blackrosenova40]

No offense but I think this is just silly! Your converting mechanical power to electricity then back to mechanical energy. Your actually wasting power.

 

[miguelmcv]

That is a nice link. Nice (looking) set-ups too. Is 7500 BTU/hr enough for a car? Would be nice to have something like that, although would probably need an extra battery "just in case". And while it won't be taking power directly from the motor and can be used for an hour or two (depending on battery size) with engine off, is adding extra weight of battery and the pump better than taking little bit of power from the motor from time to time?

You don't need 2 batteries for this system, with one battery and a good alternator will be enough, OR you can add a second alternator to keep it up.

No offense but I think this is just silly! Your converting mechanical power to electricity then back to mechanical energy. Your actually wasting power.

Not Taken.

I am not looking to free up power, My main point here is to remove the belt driven compressor which is a pain in the $$$ to remove it when taking the motor out.

I have removed my engine so many times that it gets annoying to remove the compressor and be careful with the AC lines.
I want to swap to an electric compressor, I all ready removed my power steering and all what I need is to remove the AC Compressor.

This system is nice because you can install it where ever you want.

 

[1995silvergst]

No offense but I think this is just silly! Your converting mechanical power to electricity then back to mechanical energy. Your actually wasting power.

None taken but please explain, isn't that what a distributor, electric water pump, electric fuel pump, electric gauges all do? Because the power is transferred electrical to mechanical doesn't mean it wouldn't be more efficient in fuel usage or hp. Also this system does not add anymore weight than most do by changing their wheels or putting in speakers, again no offense maybe I do not understand you

 

[91-GS]

You don't need 2 batteries for this system, with one battery and a good alternator will be enough, OR you can add a second alternator to keep it up.

I was thinking as if it was a speaker system. Some put in second battery to run the system off of, that way if it keeps running (with engine off) and runs that battery down another one will stay nice and charged to start the car.

Where are you planning on mounting the pump? Somewhere in the back?

 

[miguelmcv]

I wouldn't install it in the back, I will put it in the passaager side, in front of the tire wel, where the stock intercoller used to be.

It looks kind of big to fit under there, but will see.

 

[1995silvergst]

Are there physical measurements on the site? I wonder if you could relocate the relay/fusebox, coolant overflow and air filter for more room there?

 

[91-GS]

It's about 16" X 8" X 8" according to this manual.
And it's weight is 30 lbs, according to same manual.

 

[1995silvergst]

That sounds like pretty much a battery relocated to the rear and we are in! Also what about a unit like this to chill the intercooler or even the intake charge? The additional strain only on the alternator, yet cooler intake charge may gain efficiency and hp!

 

[kayosfrawg]

Cooling the intake charge with the AC seems a bit difficult to me especially when you can just buy a kit: CryO2 Intercooler Sprayer Kit 080108 | Purchase DEI, CryO2, Ny-Trex, Boom Mat & SPA Turbo Products | Design Engineering, Inc. - Thermal Performance Products

The waste of power he is referring to is changing mechanical power to electrical then back to mechanical (e.g. Engine->Alt->AC Pump) and the inefficiencies therein.

 

[1995silvergst]

You can spend 550.00 plus on a kit that needs to be recharged and also needs to be kept from entering your intake correct I agree. Meth will also accomplish this! My point was if you are already converting to an electric driven Ac compressor you may be able to reduce drag on the engine, cool the cabin and the intake track without the need to ever refill a bottle or tank.

 

[kayosfrawg]

So its been a little bit have you gotten any further on this? I should be picking up a shell for my upcoming project and I'm plotting out my roadmap

 

[miguelmcv]

Hey all,

I finally have some time to dig this thing up,.

I was searching and found out that I need an expansion valve and a bypass valve to be able to use the system as a heat pump as well.

I am a little confuse about the expansion and bypass valve, aren't these two the same thing?, according to this diagram, it is not the same thing........... Heat Pump

I do know I need a 2 way valve, But how about this other 2 valves?.

Any one with a good knowledge on AC and Heat pump System that can jump in and clear this up.

Any Ideas on how to get this project don will be very appreciated (AC and Heat pump).

UPDATING.


Looking at the diagram, it looks like I need 2 expansion valves and 2 bypass valves.

Here are the diagrams for you guys to see it, One is on the AC Mode and the ather is the Heat pump Mode.

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[91-GS]

Why are you wanting to use it as a heat pump? Can't you get good heat from coolant? Maybe add a small pump to circulate coolant just enough to keep hot air blowing for a while after engine is off. Besides, heat pump will not heat hardly at all when outside is below about 50 F (got a heat pump on our house and have to turn on electric heater when it dips below about 50).

Looks like an expansion valve is a lengths of pipe with a small orifice in the middle. As freon rushes out of said hole it expands, cooling dramatically (to eventually cool the air to cool the car).
A bypass valve appears to be nothing more than a check valve that allows freon to go around the expansion valve if it's flowing in the opposite direction.

 

[miguelmcv]

Well, the heat works OK, But while I am getting the electric AC Compressor, why not get the most of it, so that's why I am trying to use it as heat pump, and at the same time, I can remove the heater hoses.

Thanks for the information on both valves,

Now my next questions is, Do I need 2 expansion and 2 bypass valves in order to use it as heat pump?.

 

[91-GS]

Yes.
Because now you have two a/c systems, although they are using same freon. With A/C on you are cooling inside of the car while heating up air outside (pumping heat from inside out). With heat you are heating the inside while cooling the outside (pumping heat from outside in).

Don't believe that expansion valve can work both ways. Am about to replace one on a car and will take the old one apart to take a closer look at how they are made.

In "heater" mode the expansion valve cools off freon that is about to go through a heat exchanger to the outside air. That cold freon then gets heated up while in said heat exchanger. After that it travels through the pump that compresses it, heating it up further. After that it travels to inside heat exchanger where it cools off by heating up air inside the car.

Next time you are near a refrigerator, reach around to the back of it and feel the coil (heat exchanger) on the back of it. It will be warm to the touch. That heat is what was pumped out from inside to cool of the food. If you were to build a box around that coil you would end up with a chilled box on one side and a heated one on the other.

New:
Just examined the expansion valve. It appears to function similar to a thermostat, opening and closing depending on temperature of the evaporator. While it can possibly function in either direction, it will not hold up to reverse flow for extended periods of time because the pressure will be pushing against the control needle at all times and will be pushing the needle open even when it's supposed to be closed. Even if it did you would still have to have another one mounted on the outside heat exchanger so it can "feel" the temperatures and open/close accordingly.

 

[b00st3d]

Wouldn't it be easier to just retrofit a rear ac from something like an excursion or suburban since they are self contained and electric and will certainly have the capacity to cool a dsm?

 

[NWHTanK]

On the rear ac setup on burbs and such they are not stand alone systems. They use the ac compressor off the engine and use another set of refrigerant lines going back to the rear of the vehicle. They have a rear heater core for heat and evap for ac cooling with a fan and duct setup. Now some hybyrd cars use electric ac systems .

 

[enos1010321]

Subscribed! Very curious about this, have always wondered. Has anyone called the Ecycle company and asked how much these are? I have removed my AC so that I can rear mount my alternator, makes it so much easier to work on the turbo and front of the engine. But every time it gets above 90 outside I really wish I would not have done that. Really if I only end up being able to use this while on the highway it would really make the car that much more civil.

 

[miguelmcv]

Here we go.

No-Idle Air-Conditioning for Police Cars| eCycle, Inc.

 

[Xray]

I being searching for an electric AC compressor to swap the belt driven compressor, I have seen some of the VE using the SIERRA compressors,. I know they uses a lot of juice, but I just contacted Master Flux and they said I can use one of their compressors directly from our 12v battery/alternator.

Here is the compressor they recommended for my application MasterFlux - Product - Sierra, I will get the compressor and the controller to have it safe.

I have heard the stock compressor is rated to 8000 BTU, If that's true, then I will be OK with this SIERRA02-0716Y3 compressor, It is rated from 2,840 to 10,050 BTU,,, It draws from 456 to 1,274 Watts, and it uses from 36.4 to 53.1 amp.

When It comes to convert amps/watts/, I get a headache, I don't know how may amps alternator I will need, but I have room for two alternators 200amp each, or I can go with a 200amp and a 250amp alternator to get 450amp total.

For one moment I thought to use a 24vlt alternator and isolated to use it just for the compressor, But I haven't decide it jet, that's why I am making this thread to get a little help from the community.

Any suggestions on the alternator, amp, and volts will be appreciated.

Dear Mr. MiguelMCV

I have a huge turbo, and a lot of lag,
I had to install an Eaton supercharger M 65

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from the Mercedes SLK230.
So I had to remove the A C compressor.

I currently use a 12V to 220V converter that feeds a three-phase inverter for a 10,000 BTU residential split inverter compressor, it consumes 80 Amps @ 14 V,
it works well but it is only 10,000 BTU,
The belt-driven compressor generates 30,000 BTUs and sometimes it is not enough .

Well, I had a good reason to make the swap.

What is your reason for swapping?

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