Electric AC Compressor swap.

[miguelmcv]

I being searching for an electric AC compressor to swap the belt driven compressor, I have seen some of the VE using the SIERRA compressors,. I know they uses a lot of juice, but I just contacted Master Flux and they said I can use one of their compressors directly from our 12v battery/alternator.

Here is the compressor they recommended for my application MasterFlux - Product - Sierra, I will get the compressor and the controller to have it safe.

I have heard the stock compressor is rated to 8000 BTU, If that's true, then I will be OK with this SIERRA02-0716Y3 compressor, It is rated from 2,840 to 10,050 BTU,,, It draws from 456 to 1,274 Watts, and it uses from 36.4 to 53.1 amp.

When It comes to convert amps/watts/, I get a headache, I don't know how may amps alternator I will need, but I have room for two alternators 200amp each, or I can go with a 200amp and a 250amp alternator to get 450amp total.

For one moment I thought to use a 24vlt alternator and isolated to use it just for the compressor, But I haven't decide it jet, that's why I am making this thread to get a little help from the community.

Any suggestions on the alternator, amp, and volts will be appreciated.

 

[GSLENK]

where did you find a 250 amp alternator that bolts into our cars? a custom one off rebuild?

Assuming the car is at 14.4v constantly... then 400-1200 watts translates to 27.7 to 83.3 amps.

Stock alternator is rated for what 90- 110 ish amps?

Saturn alt for 140 amps

A car uses about 20-40 amps under normal operating conditions (wipers, high beams, stereo, other stuff will use more)

You cannot use a 24 volt alternator. I hove no idea how you would go about using 2 alts. (kinda defeats the purpose of removing the ac comp) and should not use 2 generators on the same electrical system at the same time, without careful regulation.

 

[Blurred Talon]

I don't think you need two alternators for this. Not from what I know...

I'm keeping my eye on this, I'd love to have AC back in my car but without the belt driven compressor.

 

[compression]

One of the vehicles we service is a lincoln town car LIMO, and it uses 2 alternators.. For obvious reasons.

 

[miguelmcv]

where did you find a 250 amp alternator that bolts into our cars? a custom one off rebuild?

Naha,

I just got one from a junk yard and rebuild it, I have the 140amp (original), But I can make it to 250amp.

It's a CS144 alternator, I just make it work with some spacers and brackets.

I have this on the original location, But, I can fit a massive 250amp on the ac compressor location.

http://store.alternatorparts.com/cs...-dual-rectifier-self-exciting-alternator.aspx

I hove no idea how you would go about using 2 alts. (kinda defeats the purpose of removing the ac comp) and should not use 2 generators on the same electrical system at the same time, without careful regulation.

You just have said it,,

One of the vehicles we service is a lincoln town car LIMO, and it uses 2 alternators.. For obvious reasons.

Yea,

I have seen so many cars with 2, 3, even 5 alternators to supply the juice of their sound.

My goals are to get rid of the belt driven compressor.
I have removed the engine so many times that now, it's annoying to be careful when unbolting the compressor, and that's with out saying that is tight to get to it.

I swap my steering pump with the electrical one for the same reason,,,,.
You have to deal with the pump to put it aside to remove the engine,...

I would rather have an alternator on the compressor location and install and remove the engine with the alternator attached to the engine with out a problem.

This way, I will have everything the way I want it, removing the engine with out touching the steering nor the AC system.

I will order the compressor and will bolt it on the passenger side, where the stock intercooler is.
Obviously, I will make a bracket to mount it and I will see where to mount the dryer.


It will take a while to make this project, But I will update once I receive the Compressor.

 

[miguelmcv]

Does any body knows if our expansion valve is a two way valve?.

I have being searching for my project and found out that, I can install a reversal valve (4 way valve), so this way I can use the same AC compressor to heat up the cabin, The only issue here is the expansion valve, if our expansion valve is a 2 way valve, then it makes it more easy, other wise, I will be replacing it with a 2 way valve.

Here is a site that explain how the reversal valve works (for those like me that want's to learn a little more).

How Does a Heat Pump Work ?

Here is a reversal valve for appearance reference.

Reversing Valve - Wilspec Technologies

If I end up doing it this way, I will no longer needs the heater core nor the heater hoses.

Anyone with a good knowledge on the AC System who can shine my Head concerning to our expansion valve.

 

[sincitydru]

Link for 2g--- http://www.maniacelectricmotors.com/hiou140ampal5.html

Link for 1g--- HIGH OUTPUT 150 AMP ALTERNATOR 1990-1994 ECLIPSE TALON 2.0L - HIGH OUTPUT MITSUBISHI ALTERNATORS

i think i found a 150 amp that drops right in. I was searching for an upgrade for the sound system on my 1g. Hope this helps anyone on the thread. All I think is needed is upgraded power wire for alternator to battery. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Blurred Talon]

Does any body knows if our expansion valve is a two way valve?.

I have being searching for my project and found out that, I can install a reversal valve (4 way valve), so this way I can use the same AC compressor to heat up the cabin, The only issue here is the expansion valve, if our expansion valve is a 2 way valve, then it makes it more easy, other wise, I will be replacing it with a 2 way valve.

Here is a site that explain how the reversal valve works (for those like me that want's to learn a little more).

How Does a Heat Pump Work ?

Here is a reversal valve for appearance reference.

Reversing Valve - Wilspec Technologies

If I end up doing it this way, I will no longer needs the heater core nor the heater hoses.

Anyone with a good knowledge on the AC System who can shine my Head concerning to our expansion valve.

Hmmm, this is pretty interesting.
However you'd still need a blower to blow air around the cabin and thus all the duct work.

 

[miguelmcv]

Link for 2g--- High Output 150 Amp Alternator 1995-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse 2.0L W/Turbo & Many More... - HIGH OUTPUT MITSUBISHI ALTERNATORS

Link for 1g--- HIGH OUTPUT 150 AMP ALTERNATOR 1990-1994 ECLIPSE TALON 2.0L - HIGH OUTPUT MITSUBISHI ALTERNATORS

i think i found a 150 amp that drops right in. I was searching for an upgrade for the sound system on my 1g. Hope this helps anyone on the thread. All I think is needed is upgraded power wire for alternator to battery. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You might misread the thread, I am not looking for alternators, I am looking for information about the AC System, (Expansion Valve, etc).

Hmmm, this is pretty interesting.
However you'd still need a blower to blow air around the cabin and thus all the duct work.

I don't see why I need duct.

I will be using the original duct and blower, All what I need is to remove the heater core and add the 4 way valve, That's the only changes it will be done to it, the rest will be the same, (same blower, same duct).

I still have to find out about the expansion valve, If its a 2 way or just one way valve.

 

[Blurred Talon]

Air needs to get into the duct work some how.
What did you have in mind?

 

[miguelmcv]

Well, all the factory stuff inside the car will be the same, the only thing I will add is, the reversal valve and a 2 way valve, Obviously, the electric ac compressor including, the controller for the compressor.

The rest will still be working like the way it supposed to be.

The blower inside the car including the conducts will be doing the job to guide the air to the car, I will be using the stock condensor in front of the car (radiator side),I will add a bigger dryer to help thing up.

So It will work like this,.

AC ON

When the system is on the AC mode (cold air), the evaporator will be cold, so the blower will be ON and will be sending cold air to the inside of the car, while dong this, the condensor will be hot and the AC Fans will be cooling the condensor.

HEAT PUMP ON

When the system is on the heat mode (hot air),The evaporator will be hot, so the blower will be ON and will be sending hot air tot he inside of the car, while doing this, the condensor will be Cold and the AC Fan will do it's job.

There will be no cold air inside the car while the heat mode is on, and there will not be hot air while the the ac mode is on.

I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

Edit,

Here are some projects with electric AC compressors, just to give an Idea.

EVDrive » Product Prototypes » A/C Motor/Compressor

Trying to figure out a means to drive the AC compressor - Page 2 - DIY Electric Car Forums

Hart's 1973 Porsche 914 Restoration / EV Conversion

 

[miguelmcv]

Do any one knows where to get a 12v reversal valve (4 way valve)?.

I being looking for it, But they all came for house current only, I can't find any made up for 12v for car Current, I wouldn't like to use a converter just to drive the valve.

Any help will be appreciated.

 

[91-GS]

Get a household valve and install different actuator on it.

 

[miguelmcv]

That would be a good way to go, but that's going to be even harder to find an actuator to fit there.

I have send some Emails to several companies asking about a 12V 2 way valve, But I haven't received any reply.

Hopefully they will contact me with good new..

We'll see.

 

[NHerron]

Cool ideas.

One problem might be the fact that the heat will be full heat and cold will be full cold. Only way to tone it down would be lower the fan speed. I beleive stockwise that the blend door is responsible for a bit more precise air temp -changes the ducting path % for the evaporator vs heater core.

 

[91-GS]

One problem might be the fact that the heat will be full heat and cold will be full cold. Only way to tone it down would be lower the fan speed. I beleive stockwise that the blend door is responsible for a bit more precise air temp -changes the ducting path % for the evaporator vs heater core.

Cars already have systems for mixing outside air with A/C or heater air to regulate temperature, or are you talking about something else? Besides, to reduce A/C output, cant the pump be slowed down? It's powered by electric motor anyway so instead of a clutch (like normal) this will be a direct drive, so slowing down the motor should reduce the cooling.

That would be a good way to go, but that's going to be even harder to find an actuator to fit there.

Get a door lock actuator from a DSM and make it work the valve. It's 12 volt, quite powerful, and is pretty fast. It moves about and inch so should be plenty to actuate a valve. And it's not all that big, about size of a pack of cigarettes. Or what about using mechanical linkage (like a brake cable off a bicycle) to operate the valve manually?

 

[miguelmcv]

Thats a good Idea.
I will try and order one and see what can I do.
Maybe thats not that bad to swap to a 12v actuator.

 

[kayosfrawg]

Does anyone know for sure what BTU the stock compressor is? I've been curious about electric AC for a while but none of the 12Vdc compressors look up to the challenge of actually cooling the car. If I'm not mistaken that compressor can run on either 12 or 24 Vdc and thats what the 2 lines are for. EG when it is running off 24Vdc then it can pull up to 53.1 amp yielding 1274 Watts or power consumption which equates to the listed ~10,000BTU. SO my conclusion is when running off 12Vdc is will only produce the listed ~2800BTU which is not enough to cool the car, plus would be incompatible with the stock core because it is rate matched to the stock compressor. Can someone with more AC experience chime in?

Also I think that the BTU/hr listed may also be off...1W = ~3.41 BTU/hr so at the listed 1274W = 4344.34 BTU/hr, nowhere close to the 10,000 listed. Looks like the conversion rate they are using is 1W = 6.228 BTU/hr...Can someone please double check me cause this seems funky. Also if at 12Vdc it can draw up to 53.1A then it should consume 637.2W which equals 2174.4 BTU/hr or 3968.5BTU/hr by their conversion method. Still neither is enough to cool the cabin assuming a 8000BTU/hr stock compressor.

As for alternators what about this one? https://www.dcpowerinc.com/fit/1995~Mitsubishi~Eclipse~2.0L-Turbo-4G63/13585-320-spx-i.html expensive as hell but they claim up to 220amps at a 200* hot idle, peaking at 240A when cool. Also they don't use the 2500rpm as the idle test speed they use the given idle for the vehicle it fits. https://www.dcpowerinc.com/articles/truth-about-idle or so they claim I don't need an alternator that powerful so I don't have one anyone use them at all before?

 

[miguelmcv]

You got a good point here, in 12V it will not be good enough for the project, But I can run it with a 24v Current and make it work, so this way, I can get the most of it.

I can run a 24v alternator and a twin mini batteries in series to handle the current.

I would like to know as well, how many BTU our dsm uses, I can't find this answer anywhere.
Hope some one can get in here and clear this up.

About Alternators, I have no problems with them, I can buy the parts and make it my self, this way, I can get a good one for cheap.

 

[kayosfrawg]

Have you gotten any further with this? I curious to see how you did with actuating the valve.

 

[1995silvergst]

Really cool idea and temp of the evap could be controlled by rpm according to manual.

The speed setpoint is controlled by a 0 to 5 volt analog non-isolated input. 0 to 1.0 volts commands 1800 RPM, 1.0 to 4.75 volts commands the maximum speed of 6500 RPM. At startup the motor controller will run the motor at 3000 RPM for a period of thirty seconds in order to ensure proper oiling of the mechanism and after thirty seconds the controller will run the motor at the commanded speed. If for any reason (such as excessive load) the motor should slow down to 1500 RPM the controller will output a fault and the motor will be shut down. The motor controller will run the motor at the setpoint speed independent of the load on the motor and the motor voltage provided that the speed is not limited by the motor voltage or maximum current. Five volts and ground are available on the control connector. Connect five volts to one leg of a 10K Ohm potentiometer. Connect the other to ground. Connect the wiper of the potentiometer to the speed input for variable speed operation.

Get a door lock actuator from a DSM and make it work the valve. It's 12 volt, quite powerful, and is pretty fast. It moves about and inch so should be plenty to actuate a valve. And it's not all that big, about size of a pack of cigarettes. Or what about using mechanical linkage (like a brake cable off a bicycle) to operate the valve manually?

Also aren't there irrigation valve actuators in 12v I seem to remember seeing them somewhere I will post what I can find.

 

[91-GS]

What about those small fridges that are in campers and motor homes. Their system has no moving parts and somehow they use heat (like a little propane flame) to "make" cold. Would something like that work using heat off the exhaust, or did i miss-understand how they work?

 

[miguelmcv]

Yes, there are 12V actuators but I haven't seen a 4 way valve in person, I just don't think that any actuator will replace the 4 way actuator.
I need to see the valve actuator to make sure its a regular actuator.

Does any one have a pic of the actuator it self to see how it looks.



I being thinking to use a 24v system for the compressor which it will get the most out of the compressor.
I will keep searching before ordering the compressor, I will get the controller as well to make sure the compressor is safe from low and high volt discharge.

Hopefully some one can insert a pic of the actuator it self from the 2 way valve.

 

[1995silvergst]

Four way valve in high pressure pneumatics have electric actuators available to them would something like this work?

 

[1995silvergst]

And possibly actuate with something like this?