E85 storage

[slowgsr]

Quick few questions...

Just wondering if my fuel system can handle 5-550awhp using E85, I will be tuning with aem.
-8 feed, -6 return, fullblown's dual walbro's, 1000cc injectors, aeromotive fpr? Should be good?

Im looking to do some e85 tuning since i will be pushing the stock motor this season, why not with E85?

The closest station is about 45min away, not a big deal.. Only place in Ontario Canada that has it. I don't drive my car much, I have a daily as well as a work vehicle so I don't go though much fuel.

I was wondering if it is possible to store E85, I was thinking.. Once a month go out and get maybe 6-8 5gal gas can full and keeping them sealed in my garage and just filling the car as i need it, anyone see any problems with this.

I currently have a pretty dialed in low 400hp setup with the s258 running low 22-23psi on 94 and water/meth. Id like to push it to the high 400's and I think E85 would be the most practical option, I could just alter my fuel maps, keep my eye on the wb02 to re-dial it in at this boost pressure, than start making more power.

Should I ditch the water/meth with running the E85, or keep on using it as a safeguard anyways?

Thanks for your input everyone! Im really looking forward to test out some E85 and around here its unheard of since there is no where that has it except a station semi local to me!

 

[turboglenn]

Your fuel lines are up to the task of feeding enough fuel for your goals, and the dual wally's should be as well.

As for storing e85, just think abobut this..the gas station stores it in big tanks under ground that arent' fully sealed (gotta have vents) and they do just fine. I would just say don't buy more than you will use in a month's time.

As for the water/meth the e85 provides more safeguarding than it will, i used it for a while with e85 because my pump was running out of flow (now i have duial 255's too ). BUt after gettign my fuel system up to par i relaly saw no gains or benefit to run alky injection. I'm now going to use the alky pump to make a water cooler for my TIG

 

[Burnett03]

That setup wont support 500hp. There is one lacking factor, which is the injectors, 1000cc is far to small for ethanol. Also, i run meth injection along with e-85. It cools the oncoming air and cleans the motor.

 

[turboglenn]

That setup wont support 500hp. There is one lacking factor, which is the injectors, 1000cc is far to small for ethanol. Also, i run meth injection along with e-85. It cools the oncoming air and cleans the motor.

Then how did bastard DSM make 445 hp on a single 255 with 750 injectors and stock fuel lines?

MY last un-official dyno on e85 I made 431 HP @ 31 psi, stock fuel lines, a pair of 1000cc injectors and a single wally 255 at 12.5:1 AFR and no nitrous ( no torque reading and only MPH instead of RPM reading because of no ignition pickup lead) (which is the reason i don't have a sheet to submit to get my new HP readings up from the 332 i made at 20 psi on pump gas and 720's

This was on a dyno jet though, a motorcycle shop i go to let me roll up on their rollers and do a single pull on e85 and all the boost i could muster, this is on my new motor 9:1 wisecos, H-beam rods, 264/272 with BC springs and retainers

 

[slowgsr]

well if the 1000cc injectors run out of fuel at 42psi of base pressure. I know 500awhp will be pushing the 1000cc injectors.

Does anyone know if dual intake walbro's (in parallel) can support 100psi of base pressure, plus another 30psi under full boost? Or is this just too much.

I am considering upgrading to a set of bosch injectory dynamic saturated 1000cc injectors, they can be run no safely at 100psi base fuel pressure, up to 92.5% DS @ 9000rpm and idle way better than any other 1000cc injector on the market at low pulse width.

They look great, and @ 100psi base they would outflow my current 1000cc's at 42 by far and help support my needs, I don't want to push my PTE 1000's that high, very high failure risk.

Plus i don't want 1600's since I will still drive the car on gasoline and idle and partial throttle sucks with 1600's, and dual fuel rails isn't an option at this point in time.

Injector Dynamics

 

[JayRolla]

I dont know what it is but up in our altitude I swear our IDC's are higher than the sea level guys. I dont see 1000's making 550whp up here. My bro on his 1000's see's near 80% IDCs on a maxed 16g. I see 65% on 1200's.

On e85 the 1600's will act like smaller injectors and you really dont have idle issues. Expecially with a good EMS like link or aem. People will start to run the new 1850's and Tom at link thinks his EMS will control them no issue on e85.

 

[Burnett03]

Then how did bastard DSM make 445 hp on a single 255 with 750 injectors and stock fuel lines?

Probably with 120% IDC and super lean car? If you want to try to push it and blow a motor be my guest. I ran 1000cc injectors on ethanol and could only get 20psi before the idc were at dangerous levels. Why try to push it?

 

[Burnett03]

Plus i don't want 1600's since I will still drive the car on gasoline and idle and partial throttle sucks with 1600's, and dual fuel rails isn't an option at this point in time.

Injector Dynamics

Why would you even bother running the car on gasoline if you are running it on ethanol?

 

[slowgsr]

There is only 1 station that has E85 in Ontario Canada, which is 45min from me. If something happened and they ran out, or I couldn't get there to get anymore for whatever reason I would like the option of being able to run very easily on gasoline for the time being.

I will probably just max out my 1000's, than upgrade to 1600's and suffer poor idle/partial throttle when using gasoline, and my question on storage was answered.

Thanks.

 

[turboglenn]

Probably with 120% IDC and super lean car? If you want to try to push it and blow a motor be my guest. I ran 1000cc injectors on ethanol and could only get 20psi before the idc were at dangerous levels. Why try to push it?

Well, he seems to drive the car daily like that and i haven't seen an " i blew the motor" thread from him yet. I'm running 1000's and have no issues with IDC's now that i have dual walbro pumps parallel and a base fuel pressure of 45 psi. I'm able to run 25psi on a 57 trim with the above fuel pressure and i'm running 10.8 - 11:1 AFR's at only 78% IDC and thats with no compensation for dead times.( i would be at 30 already if it weren't for working too much and having roads be too wet to get a tune finished) I'm positive that i will get back to 30 psi (where i was before on this same setup, but on an old motor) And I'm thinking that by the time i'm back at 30 psi i'll safely be able to run an 11.5 -12:1 AFR and still not be above 85% IDC (maybe 90 tops)

I don't know what it is that some people can't get their setup to do what others can. I've seen people do way more than me on less injector and pump. I never ran out of injector on the 1k's i ran out of fuel pump flow. after upgrading the lines and making my own dual intank pump setup i'm got fuel to spare and the nitrous is going on top of it all this coming week.

Anyway, this thread is about storing e85, so i'm done argueing a moot point. To the OP, yes, store the e85 in air tight cans and you'll be fine, like i said though, just try and stash enough to use up in a month so it doens't degrade at all (not sure if it will, but i know regular pump fuel does)

 

[JayRolla]

Well, he seems to drive the car daily like that and i haven't seen an " i blew the motor" thread from him yet. I'm running 1000's and have no issues with IDC's now that i have dual walbro pumps parallel and a base fuel pressure of 45 psi. I'm able to run 25psi on a 57 trim with the above fuel pressure and i'm running 10.8 - 11:1 AFR's at only 78% IDC and thats with no compensation for dead times.( i would be at 30 already if it weren't for working too much and having roads be too wet to get a tune finished) I'm positive that i will get back to 30 psi (where i was before on this same setup, but on an old motor) And I'm thinking that by the time i'm back at 30 psi i'll safely be able to run an 11.5 -12:1 AFR and still not be above 85% IDC (maybe 90 tops)

I don't know what it is that some people can't get their setup to do what others can. I've seen people do way more than me on less injector and pump. I never ran out of injector on the 1k's i ran out of fuel pump flow. after upgrading the lines and making my own dual intank pump setup i'm got fuel to spare and the nitrous is going on top of it all this coming week.

Anyway, this thread is about storing e85, so i'm done argueing a moot point. To the OP, yes, store the e85 in air tight cans and you'll be fine, like i said though, just try and stash enough to use up in a month so it doens't degrade at all (not sure if it will, but i know regular pump fuel does)

Thats the funny thing. My bros injectors are running near 80% but we both have unwired single 255's and never ran out of pump. But we are not pushing as much air as you either. If you look at it mathimatically what he is doing on those injectors is crazy. If you look at what I post you will see that to support 51 lb/min you would need at least 1150cc injectors.

390cc @ 100% IDC will support 21.80 lbs/min. Global Correction: +50.00%
390cc @ 80% IDC will support 17.44 lbs/min

450cc @ 100% IDC will support 25.15 lbs/min. Global Correction: +30.00%
450cc @ 80% IDC will support 20.12 lbs/min

550cc @ 100% IDC will support 30.74 lbs/min. Global Correction: +6.36%
550cc @ 80% IDC will support 24.59 lbs/min

580cc @ 100% IDC will support 32.42 lbs/min. Global Correction: +0.86%
580cc @ 80% IDC will support 25.94 lbs/min

650cc @ 100% IDC will support 36.33 lbs/min. Global Correction: -10.00%
650cc @ 80% IDC will support 29.07 lbs/min

660cc @ 100% IDC will support 36.89 lbs/min. Global Correction: -11.36%
660cc @ 80% IDC will support 29.51 lbs/min

680cc @ 100% IDC will support 38.01 lbs/min. Global Correction: -13.97%
680cc @ 80% IDC will support 30.41 lbs/min

720cc @ 100% IDC will support 40.24 lbs/min. Global Correction: -18.75%
720cc @ 80% IDC will support 32.20 lbs/min

750cc @ 100% IDC will support 41.92 lbs/min. Global Correction: -22.00%
750cc @ 80% IDC will support 33.54 lbs/min

780cc @ 100% IDC will support 43.60 lbs/min. Global Correction: -25.00%
780cc @ 80% IDC will support 34.88 lbs/min

850cc @ 100% IDC will support 47.51 lbs/min. Global Correction: -31.18%
850cc @ 80% IDC will support 38.01 lbs/min

880cc @ 100% IDC will support 49.19 lbs/min. Global Correction: -33.52%
880cc @ 80% IDC will support 39.35 lbs/min

950cc @ 100% IDC will support 53.10 lbs/min. Global Correction: -38..42%
950cc @ 80% IDC will support 42.48 lbs/min

1000cc @ 100% IDC will support 55.89 lbs/min. Global Correction: -41.50%
1000cc @ 80% IDC will support 44.72 lbs/min

1150cc @ 100% IDC will support 64.28 lbs/min. Global Correction: -49.13%
1150cc @ 80% IDC will support 51.42 lbs/min

1200cc @ 100% IDC will support 67.07 lbs/min. Global Correction: -51.25%
1200cc @ 80% IDC will support 53.66 lbs/min

1600cc @ 100% IDC will support 89.43 lbs/min. Global Correction: -63.44%
1600cc @ 80% IDC will support 71.55 lbs/min

1850cc @ 100% IDC will support 103.41 lbs/min. Global Correction: -68.38%
1850cc @ 80% IDC will support 82.72 lbs/min

 

[Car Cannibal]

You'd be spending a lot more $$ in mods to gain a little over a properly tuned Meth kit. Run straight Meth and either add a bigger nozzle to your current kit and/or spike the fuel with either 100 or higher to bring the total octane up for the increased cylinder pressure.

I do 10 gallons of 93 and 5 of 110 leaded to get about 98 oct with my single 15gph Meth nozzle on a different FI car, plenty.

 

[JayRolla]

E85 is a lot better than meth injection and wont cost him more to run it.

 

[420a-t]

I just picked-up a drum of e-70 and I'm planning on keeping it for around two months outside in Idaho where it starts to get warm in july and cools of in august. I read that it should be fine storing it as long as it's in a sealed container so it doesn't soak-up all the water and humidity in the air and delute it.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Thats the funny thing. My bros injectors are running near 80% but we both have unwired single 255's and never ran out of pump. But we are not pushing as much air as you either. If you look at it mathimatically what he is doing on those injectors is crazy. If you look at what I post you will see that to support 51 lb/min you would need at least 1150cc injectors.

What target AFR and SG were you using when you did those calculations?