2G E85 gains?

[Tyler Davis]

Hey guys,

Just want some opinions on what would make the most sense to do in this situation. I know these cars love e85 but just wondering on average people are gaining in setups from 93 pump. I know bench racing is a touchy topic on the forums but just wondering as i currently have a 93 setup with an old school FP red on ~24-25psi and have squeaked out a 12.1@109. To me seems like low trap speeds but anymore boost/timing my car will start to read knock (maybe phantom I have no clue). My ultimate goal is a 10.99 but will ethanol gain over a second ET? Thanks again!

 

[Stapl3]

Yes. You can run all the timing and all the boost with e85. It is jesus juice.

 

[Tyler Davis]

Yes. You can run all the timing and all the boost with e85. It is jesus juice.

Lol would be awesome if it was, just don’t know if I should go bigger setup or if that’s realistic

 

[Stapl3]

With E85, I run peak timing about 21-22* and all the boost until it stops making power be it out of airflow or fuel or ignition. You would absolutely without question be into the 10's by switching. Al Blaha was running mid 10's over 20 years ago with a fp red and a freakin' 1g MAF. It's totally doable.

 

[jdxnc]

Share a log with us to look over, 109mph is def not ideal for a red, even on pump gas. In my experience, you'll make more usable power with lower timing and higher boost.

 

[We're on Boost]

I know these cars love e85 but just wondering on average people are gaining in setups from 93 pump.

Couple months ago I charted up this comparison for my own car, using Winpep7. The actual dyno runs were done in 2016. The gasoline was 92 octane, not 93. Conditions and correction factors are shown in the titling. Sorry it's vs MPH rather than RPM but it was 3rd gear in a stock type 1991-94 gearbox so we could estimate a conversion to rpm if you want. The rpm pickup wasn't working yet when they did run 6.

Don't take the air/fuel numbers too seriously. They are not from a sensor in the downpipe. They are from a sensor up the tail pipe.
What Aaron told me about that later was, subtract about 0.5 from whatever numbers you see there. In other words, 11.0 would have been more like 10.5 really. The real A/F was on a gauge in the cabin and I don't have a log of that.

When these runs were done, they didn't have "Crack Pressure" turned on yet in my boost controller.
Boost in the blue run (pump gas) would have come up quicker probably with help from the Crack Pressure feature.
Boost came up about normal in the red run because with 60% ethanol in the tank they could have a much higher duty cycle going to the boost controller solenoid, and then the crack pressure feature is not needed as much.
The engine and turbo were what you see on my specs page.

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[Tyler Davis]

Share a log with us to look over, 109mph is def not ideal for a red, even on pump gas. In my experience, you'll make more usable power with lower timing and higher boost.

I will definitely post one up, I ended up not being able to log my runs from the PB run as my computer died on the way to the track but I’ll do some logging after work tomorrow, thank you

Couple months ago I charted up this comparison for my own car, using Winpep7. The actual dyno runs were done in 2016. The gasoline was 92 octane, not 93. Conditions and correction factors are shown in the titling. Sorry it's vs MPH rather than RPM but it was 3rd gear in a stock type 1991-94 gearbox so we could estimate a conversion to rpm if you want. The rpm pickup wasn't working yet when they did run 6.

Don't take the air/fuel numbers too seriously. They are not from a sensor in the downpipe. They are from a sensor up the tail pipe.
What Aaron told me about that later was, subtract about 0.5 from whatever numbers you see there. In other words, 11.0 would have been more like 10.5 really. The real A/F was on a gauge in the cabin and I don't have a log of that.

When these runs were done, they didn't have "Crack Pressure" turned on yet in my boost controller.
Boost in the blue run (pump gas) would have come up quicker probably with help from the Crack Pressure feature.
Boost came up about normal in the red run because with 60% ethanol in the tank they could have a much higher duty cycle going to the boost controller solenoid, and then the crack pressure feature is not needed as much.
The engine and turbo were what you see on my specs page.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Wow those are some serious gains that is very helpful, that’s must’ve felt like a completely different car after that session

 

[bastarddsm]

The harder you turn it up the more you can gain. I'd expect to pickup at least 10mph on your setup not even cranking up the boost.

 

[We're on Boost]

Wow those are some serious gains that is very helpful, that’s must’ve felt like a completely different car after that session

Well yes, the engine was completely different before, up to 2015. The car then was ~230 hp, stock 14b turbo, stock original internals, stock sidemount intercooler. You know, you've probably been there! The way the car was then, you can see it in my other profile, the one with the thumbnail that is a bunch of wires.
The whole engine project with English Racing took about a year, from mid-2015 to mid-2016.
If you look at the specs profile for the current car, one of the pics there is run 13 on the dyno which has RPM on the horizontal axis, not MPH. Same run as the "red" run up in post #6. So you can get rpm from that, and torque.

 

[Tyler Davis]

Hey guys heres a log of a pull from tonight, i know its advised not to mess with the fuel/timing sliders I just have been trying to get the KnockRet to go away but I cannot figure it out myself, I dont have my boost or wideband gauge wired into link but AFRs are always 10.8-11.0 the entire run and boost was 23-24psi. I get its a 2.3 and they dont run alot of timing but that seems a little excessive but im also a newbie to trying to mess with this stuff. I am just worried with how low the timing ends up pulling to, the heat has to be crazy high

 

[Stapl3]

Well. If it's a 2.3L you have the Loadscale wrong. In direct access, go to the loadscale tab and change the value from 100 to 87. You will have to do this with the engine off.

 

[biglady112]

Hey guys heres a log of a pull from tonight, i know its advised not to mess with the fuel/timing sliders I just have been trying to get the KnockRet to go away but I cannot figure it out myself, I dont have my boost or wideband gauge wired into link but AFRs are always 10.8-11.0 the entire run and boost was 23-24psi. I get its a 2.3 and they dont run alot of timing but that seems a little excessive but im also a newbie to trying to mess with this stuff. I am just worried with how low the timing ends up pulling to, the heat has to be crazy high

If you want to know how much timing your engine wants, start reading your spark plugs. A new plug with a singular fresh pull on it will tell you if the combustion cycle is happy or not. It may be just fine for all you know. I wouldn’t worry about EGT’s until you have a fresh plug with fresh data on it.