2G E85 compatible pumps

[tschuhly]

I have a walbro 255 and was planning on running e85 but just saw a couple of posts where people don't recommend it. I have also seen people run it.

Is the walbro 255 alright to use with e85 or will I run into issues?

 

[Car Cannibal]

First is this 255lph pump able to support your power considering you'll need a certain % of volume off the total flow depending on your ethanol blend and AFR? It's possible you'll need 30% more volume, but E50 can go further and you can run a lot of boost (I did).

Can the 255lph pump run on E, sure, how long, not really easy to answer for you, there's been internal changes to pumps over the last decade so here's something to consider...

What matters more, you got this 255 pump now and it's a little cheaper but might not support your power now or later and possibly fail sooner and possibly within 10k miles....
Or
Get a newer, bigger pump and while you need to spend a tad more but you don't worry about all the above questions?

I've had like every pump from stock, 255, 044, Supra, 400, 450 etc etc, 525 Hellcat is great, now there's a DW810L with controller, times have changed and combos are getting crazy powerful so plan as far out as you can afford and you'll probably save time and money in the end.

 

[Justin DuBois]

I am using the AEM 340lph in tank pump replacement with 100% E85. It is working great. It will overflow the stock FPR, and the stock GSX siphon return - so you need to make some supporting modifications like most large pumps.

 

[babyviper]

I was running out of pump on my 20g at high boost with the wally 255 on pump gas. I'd recommend picking up the AEM 340 or 400. I put down 513 on e85 at 37lbs with an FPgreen running the AEM 400lph.

 

[tschuhly]

I bought the car with the intention of making it a fun daily driver. I ended up customizing the hanger to have AN fittings and ran a 10AN PTFE to the Aeromotive filter, then 8AN PTFE to rail. Then from rail to the Aeromotive AFPR. Then a 6 AN PTFE return. I have a stock rail but I have 2150cc FIC High z injectors. I figured I would drive the car and then when the pump goes up, ill upgrade then. I just don't want to do anything that would cause excessive corrosion on a pump not setup for e85 and cause it to fail prematurely.

I was also hoping to swap between e85 and premium pump since not all of the places around me have e85. I also heard that it isn't a bad idea to do this every now and then to kind of clean out the system and reduce chance of corrosion buildup.

This is all coming from someone who is simply learning as they are going and has never had a project car before.

I appreciate everyone's input!

 

[CrackedDSM]

Just as a heads up after a year of E85 full time and occasional pump 93, e85 started eating the inside of my stock fuel rail. Had white powdery almost aluminum rust looking stuff all in it. Clogged one injector too.

So honestly might wanna upgrade to an e85 proof rail.

 

[tschuhly]

So then what I may do is get it tuned using e85 and then switch to premium until I upgrade fuel rail and pump...

This was super helpful guys!

 

[Car Cannibal]

The ethanol long term prepping is its own category as Cracked talked about. PTFE lines in generally 8an Feed and 6an Return, anodized everything, running straight 93 at times to keep things clean and especially in the winter time. All 3 of my flex cars are as close to E10 as possible in the Winter with start ups on warm days to prevent injector issues. It's a list of preventive maintenance when you run Ethanol and it still doesn't matter sometimes, it ate through a small fuel pump to hangar hose on my GN around 2k miles because the tech used crap hose, unreal.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Had the same issue as car cannibal. I had PTFE -8AN Feed and PTFE -6AN return from tank to rail both ways, and E85 rated hose for the fuel pump and not only did the rail issue happen, but it still had black goo show up.

Honestly I think in the future if I go E85 again on another car I may clean the tank with muriatic acid and change the rail. If black goo still shows up then I will be at a loss.

 

[We're on Boost]

I was also hoping to swap between e85 and premium pump since not all of the places around me have e85. I also heard that it isn't a bad idea to do this every now and then to kind of clean out the system and reduce chance of corrosion buildup.

You should think about setting up flex-fuel for your car. You can only do that if you are speed density, because the flex-fuel sensor uses the frequency input of the ecu that would otherwise be used by the MAF.

Anyway, my in-tank pump is a regular old Walbro 255 but it has never had over 60% ethanol in the fuel. Even the "all-in" dyno tune was done on E60. That was 10 years ago. Generally my fuel mix is 40 to 60% in the summer and 20 to 35% in the winter. I do use small amounts of a fuel additive for anti-corrosion and anti-moisture. I also checked my gas stations around here to make sure they are "Top-Tier" which almost all are now just about everywhere. Top-Tier probably does not apply to E85. That I guess would only be for the gasoline you buy (92 octane or whatever you have there). My Walbro is doing ok.

I'm not trying to talk you out of buying a pump that is "rated" for e85 though.
Know that your E85 can turn into jelly or cause other problems no matter what kind of pump you have.
So if you can set up to use variable % of ethanol in your fuel, and keep the % lower for a few months in the winter - that I think is the ideal way to go.

So then what I may do is get it tuned using e85 and then switch to premium until I upgrade fuel rail and pump...

If you tune on e85 and then switch to premium, you will immediately need to do some retuning. So it kind of makes no sense. If you are going to run it on premium, tune it on premium. Then get it re-tuned on e85 when you switch fuels.

If you have flex fuel set up, you can vary your fuel all you want and ECMlink adjusts automatically for it.
Setting up and tuning flex fuel is a little more complicated than the regular way of using a constant fuel. So you might need to have the tuning done by somebody who is good at it. But the install and wiring you could do yourself, and maybe even the tuning.

 

[Car Cannibal]

The scary part is Ethanol is so awesome for FI engines that you'll deal with all this possible garbage, especially if you were a leaded fuel guy back in the 90s etc and that whole mess of smells, pricing, finding stations, killing 02 sensors, it totally sucked.

Big pump, E whatever blend you need, legit tune with conservative timing and rip hard.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I'd go ahead and run the Hellcat pump. Pricing is not much different. 1ndone.

 

[tschuhly]

So after all of the input I think I am going to just stick to 93 pump gas. My goal is to make a fun but reliable daily driver car and it sounds like e85 potentially adds another thing that could go wrong.
The added HP is cool but I feel like I was originally thinking e85 because I was under the impression that it was cleaner for the engine and cheaper. But I'd rather have a fun car for a long time then a really fun car for a shorter time.

 

[miliman13]

So after all of the input I think I am going to just stick to 93 pump gas. My goal is to make a fun but reliable daily driver car and it sounds like e85 potentially adds another thing that could go wrong.
The added HP is cool but I feel like I was originally thinking e85 because I was under the impression that it was cleaner for the engine and cheaper. But I'd rather have a fun car for a long time then a really fun car for a shorter time.

93 + water/meth injection for steam cleaned shinny carbon free internals.

And if desired also allows for more Hp cools mixture
If that’s an interest.

 

[tschuhly]

93 + water/meth injection for steam cleaned shinny carbon free internals.

And if desired also allows for more Hp cools mixture
If that’s an interest.

That does sound pretty nice but I feel like that might be a little more advanced then what I'm capable of. Is meth more expensive than gas? And what would I need to change in my car to be set up for meth injection?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Its a nozzle fed by a pump from its own tank and comes on during WOT operation. I have one on my car but have been running E. Now that I still have gas in from pickling the injectors, I should turn my system on. Its not a fuel (basically windshield washer fluid), more of a detonation control for running additional timing for better performance.

 

[tschuhly]

Maybe one day but that sounds like a lot for me right now

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Just explaining what it was. You have a nice simple plan.

 

[tschuhly]

Just explaining what it was. You have a nice simple plan.

No I really appreciate it!

I'll only do it if I can have the cool gas shoot out from my hood like in the fast and the furious...

 

[Stapl3]

E85 is jesus juice. It is like steroids for the car. You can run whatever timing and boost you want, intercooling quality doesn't matter much, there is just no going back to pump gas after using E85.

Never had a problem with stock fuel lines. One car of mine, the inside of the rail got chalky like posted above. You can solve that issue by doing a hard anodize to it.

I'd run a 525 pump regardless of fuel choice.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I'll only do it if I can have the cool gas shoot out from my hood like in the fast and the furious...

I did that stuff with my 92 Auto . I never got to hooking it up to the engine (it really didn't need it, it was fast at 32psi on a 62mm turbo). It sure attracted A LOT of attention and wasted a whole bottle of NOS.

 

[pauleyman]

I did that stuff with my 92 Auto . I never got to hooking it up to the engine (it really didn't need it, it was fast at 32psi on a 62mm turbo). It sure attracted A LOT of attention and wasted a whole bottle of NOS.

Is there anybody faster than you in independence?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

My son, in that Badass RS3 Audi. It runs 9s.
There are a couple guys that would definitely put up a fight with my car but not his.
We have a pecking order. If it will outrun this, will it outrun the next thing we bring out.

 

[TerminalTalon]

I'd run a 525 pump regardless of fuel choice.

I have one sitting ready to go. I’m just in between relay decisions since technology keeps advancing. The Kaizenspeed has me interested.

 

[Stapl3]

I have one sitting ready to go. I’m just in between relay decisions since technology keeps advancing. The Kaizenspeed has me interested.

A relay is just a remote switch. You could use one the size of a brick rated to power an entire house if you wanted. What not to use is the 1" by 1" cube sized relay that we all used 25 year ago. I've almost burned down a car with those.

I've been using a Stinger SGP38 for a dozen years now on two cars and will always recommend it.