DSMs could rule the tracks

[Slow old poop]

Back in the day, when we ran a Datsun 510 rally car, Datsun Competition made parts available at dirt-cheap prices. Body panels, springs, shocks, LSDs, and stuff from the factory rally team cars were all available to us. Without such support, my wife and I never could have afforded to run. Others, too. In those days (1970s), 75% of a Pro Rally entry list was made up of Datsun 510s.

It occurs to me that Mitsubishi has a perfect opportunity to dominate both NASA and SCCA if it would give us similar support. Here's the evidence:

o Gregg Collier won a national championship with his FWD car

o Comparing lap times at Iowa Speedway last week and Road America last year shows that my 1990 Eclipse AWD is competitive in half a dozen different TT and race classes. Wherever they wind up putting me, I am sure I shall be competitive.

o My old bone-stock 1992 Talon ran lap times that would easily win its stock TT class.

o 3000GTs and Stealths, both turbo and nonturbo, are extremely fast, competitive cars.

I have no doubt that a team comprised of Evos, 3000GTs and DSMs could utterly dominate SCCA and NASA, in whatever classes we are permitted to compete. What's more, through careful tuning on a dyno and judicious selection of equipment, we could prepare cars for specific classes, so we don't run against each other.

For example:
Evos and 3000GTs could run in the top classes (probably TTS1, TTS2, SSGT1 and 2)
AWD DSMs could run in TTU and SU
FWD turbo DSMs could run in TTA
non-turbo DSMs and NA 3000GTs could run in TTB
Mostly stock DSMs could run in lower classes

Probably the toughest class of all will be TTB, because it's ferocious, but I am confident that the proper combination of parts and setup would make the cars competitive.

The key, of course, is to get Mitsubishi support, which--at the very least--should provide:

Racer prices on parts such as Evo wheels, brakes, exhaust manifolds, injectors, turbos, and parts developed by the Mitsu rally team over the years. Such parts should be made available DIRT CHEAP to any active competitor holdng an SCCA or NASA TT or race license.

Mitsu should also offer a contingency program, which pays cash to competitors based on results.

Mitsu should sponsor regional teams of cars, perhaps through dealers. This does not have to be money. Lord knows, what we really need is parts, a lift, and mechanical support more than cash. Right now, I need knowledge and support more than cash, but the nearest place I trust--AMS--is 250 miles away.

With such support, Mitsu could dominate the fields at SCCA and NASA, just like Datsun did back in the 1970s.

What do we have to do to get through to them?

 

[drivemusicnow]

... There is one HUGE problem.

Mitsubishi is dirt poor. They are on a slight uprise right now, but in the past 8 years or so they've lost a LOT of money throught litigation on several different issues both over here and in Japan, as well as lackluster sales in the States. I do think someone, (AMS or another vendor involved with road racing) could present a good case to Mitsu of USA to try and argue that providing these parts at low cost would increase sales.

It would be a tough sell, and one that I'm not sure Mitsu would fall for.

It would be REALLY helpful though. I'd love to be able to pick up body panels, bolts/gaskets etc from Mitsu for racing purposes. If you're willing to put some work into this, I would be able to help. I also have 2 family members who are extremely knowledgeable about marketing and PR stuff.

 

[eclipsh]

Last I knew, Mitsu wasn't running its own factory race team for rally. It is a great idea but I doubt it'd get much support. By all means, give it a shot though.

 

[Ludachris]

I don't have much faith in Mitsu trying to do something like this, as cool as it would be. I think you're right. I think they could make a huge splash in NASA and SCCA with the low cost of DSMs and with how competitive Evos are bone stock. They really should offer some incentives for people to take these cars racing. I think these cars could easily be the next Datsun 510 if there were more support from Mitsu. I think it would be a great business move for them - which probably means they won't do it

 

[Slow old poop]

... If you're willing to put some work into this, I would be able to help. I also have 2 family members who are extremely knowledgeable about marketing and PR stuff.

Of course I am willing to put some work into this. I just don't know anybody at Mitsu. They don't have to give us cash...cheap parts would be a great way to start.

For example:

An Evo Brembo brake kit for $500 (calipers and rotors) would be a fantastic upgrade for DSMs.
Evo wheels for $50 each.
Evo exhaust manifold for $50.
Evo injectors for $150
I'm not sure what rally parts are available, but I suspect LSDs, exhaust systems, springs, shocks, and whatnot are lying around in parts bins somewhere.

None of these prices would break Mitsu's bank, but they sure would help get a bunch of DSMs on track.

By the bye, I know a little about PR and marketing myself.

Rich

 

[Flash]

This whole thread is about what Mitsubishi can do for you. Might have better results if you can twist it to be what you can give Mitsubishi in return for giving you cheap parts. I don't even understand why Mitsubishi would spend money and effort even trying to market in such a weird segment with 17 year old cars. It really does nothing for them at all. Next, Mitsubishi's motorsports program is pretty much extinct.

 

[Slow old poop]

This whole thread is about what Mitsubishi can do for you. Might have better results if you can twist it to be what you can give Mitsubishi in return for giving you cheap parts. I don't even understand why Mitsubishi would spend money and effort even trying to market in such a weird segment with 17 year old cars. It really does nothing for them at all. Next, Mitsubishi's motorsports program is pretty much extinct.

The whole purpose of a race marketing program is to gain exposure and recognition for the marque, and build loyalty among owners. Race on Sunday, sell on Monday. Yes, our cars are old, but still competitive, recognizable, and a favorite of young drivers. Young street racers get older, get married and buy SUVs, sedans and trucks. Evos would be the flagship brand, of course, but there is no reason why we can't tag along for the ride.

 

[JOEY A]

DSMs need to get into road racing plain and simple

 

[jtmcinder]

Especially if it will reduce their participation in street racing.

- Flashlight Cop

 

[The_EE]

This whole thread is about what Mitsubishi can do for you. Might have better results if you can twist it to be what you can give Mitsubishi in return for giving you cheap parts. I don't even understand why Mitsubishi would spend money and effort even trying to market in such a weird segment with 17 year old cars. It really does nothing for them at all. Next, Mitsubishi's motorsports program is pretty much extinct.

In a way it can help Mitsubishi a ton.

17 year old cars being comeptitive in a scene that has a crap load of newer car. Mitsu can say, " Hey guys, look at what our 17 year old cars tearing up the track, imagine what our newest technology can do!".

 

[Slow old poop]

DSMs need to get into road racing plain and simple

I can't believe there are not more of you out there. Our cars are extremely competitive, we can kick butt right out of the box in any class, and the car is downright cheap to prepare and campaign. As the Datsun 510 was to rallying, the DSM is to racing.

Not only that, I truly believe that a well-prepped DSM--like Greg Collier proved--can kick Evo butt. If I had a few thou more to put into my car, I'd show you. As it is, I am only 2-3 seconds off the fastest lap times of the truly badass cars. Give me a bigger budget to buy NEW Hoosiers and a set of rains (instead of last year's used Hoosiers and a set of worn-out Toyos), a new ball-bearing turbo, a shop like AMS nearby to fix it when I break it, and I'll run with the big boys. Our cars are that good!

And I am an OLD fart. Crikies, I'm so old I creak. I was running Pro rallies in the 1970s fer crissake.

Imagine what one of you young punk kids with your lightning reflexes and no fear could do! I keep waiting for one of you young-uns to step up. Where are you? It's lonely out there. I can't wait around forever. This is my last season. I will be happy to teach, share knowledge and be a mentor to anybody who comes out, but first you gotta come out.

 

[eclipsh]

If it makes you feel better, I'm slowly working my way around to track time and possibly racing. I'll be hitting the track sometime this summer and we'll see how it goes from there. We're out there, we're just too damn broke to race As you know, Hoosiers and parts get pricey. If most of us had money we'd be driving Evos, though you're right, with some work our cars can spank them. Our 1g suspensions aren't much different, just less camber/caster stock to stock and that is easy to fix.

 

[Slow old poop]

If it makes you feel better, I'm slowly working my way around to track time and possibly racing. I'll be hitting the track sometime this summer and we'll see how it goes from there. We're out there, we're just too damn broke to race As you know, Hoosiers and parts get pricey. If most of us had money we'd be driving Evos, though you're right, with some work our cars can spank them. Our 1g suspensions aren't much different, just less camber/caster stock to stock and that is easy to fix.

Good for you! If you run anywhere in the Midwest, pit with us.

If I had tons of money, I'd be driving...um, er...geez, ya know, I can't think of a better car than a DSM. Maybe a 3000GT. I ran one for four years, and it was an absolute screaming machine, but it broke too much and too expensively. The DSM is every bit as fast as the 3000GT WAS, but not as fast as the 3000GT COULD BE. Of course, the DSM isn't as fast as it could be, either. Incredible potential in both cars. The sky's the limit.

If I ever hit the lottery, I think I'll build one of each: a 500 hp DSM and a 600 hp 3000GT. Shoot, every rich doctor has a 911 Porsche or an M3. I'd like to prove, once and for all, that Mitsus rule.

By the bye, buy a set of Toyo Prox RA1 tires. They wear like iron, will last you all season, and are just a smidge slower than Hoosiers. They work better in the rain, and you can drive them to and from the track.

 

[eclipsh]

I was actually very pleased with my Kumho SPT tires at the last Auto X I went to. Once I have the money for a second set of wheels and tires I'll look into the RA1 rubber too.

I'll likely be starting graduate school this fall so any real racing plans won't happen for a couple years at least. In the meantime I'll get some track experience in. I hear Salt Lake City has a dynamite new(ish) track that I'd love to go play on.

 

[Defiant]

The key, of course, is to get Mitsubishi support,

O, that's all. Christ, Mitsubishi needs to get its own support. I don't know why they even bother to build cars. God knows they've never been involved in it, it's always just been a sideline from the electronics, ships, foundry machinery and the rest of the world they build.

What do we have to do to get through to them?

In the current automotive world, and the incoming tide of Earth-Friendly marketing, I just don't know. Hell, I just want simple things, like a return of WRC to SpeedTV, and full coverage of the Paris-Dakar.

Meanwhile, I still have my Datsun motor sports catalog. They were still supporting the Roadster. I also have stuff from Alston Racing about making drilled Roadster discs, and replacing all the front suspension fasteners.

 

[schemauer]

Back to reality here.

The ONLY way Mitsu might support any race series would be if it helped them gain visibility and sell more cars. That would only happen with the current generation EVO. There is no way they would provide a support program for past generation cars. A 1g or 2g car winning any race would do nothing for them. Hell, most current EVO owners don't even realize the "family heritage" back through the 2g and 1g cars.

I've had conversations with several Mitsu exec's at the Mitsu owner's day the past two years at the factory in Normal IL. The message was quite clear that there just wasn't funding for any of this at the present time. Hell, they can't even properly support their existing rally efforts. If you want a contact - you can talk with David Blies there - he's tried for years to get some sort of parts conduit in place to bring the neat stuff from Japan to the states and has had no luck.

I've tried to get rally parts for my Montero (Pagero) for the past few from Mitsu and there is just no way to do it.

Great ideas here, but the reality of the almight dollar is what drives the big corporations these days.

 

[Slow old poop]

Great ideas here, but the reality of the almight dollar is what drives the big corporations these days.

I didn't realize it was quite that bad at Mitsu these days. From my 3000GT days, and my trials and tribulations trying to get them to honor a transmission warranty, I feel that Mitsubishi builds a great car. It's just too bad that the company and dealer network suck so bad. Empty suit management, stealers for dealers, and incompetence seems to run rampant there. Any company that would check drag racing results so they can void warranties is definitely not going to support an ownership loyalty program.

The factory warranty is so bad, the prevailing advice on the 3000GT forum was: Never buy a new Mitsu; instead, buy a used one from a GM dealer and get the GM extended warranty. That way, the warranty will be honored for a change.

The great marques--BMW, Porsche, Mazda and others--have motorsports programs, and seem to be thriving. Mitsu doesn't, and is dying. Is there a connection here?

If it wasn't for Mitsuibishi, owing a Mitsubishi would be wonderful.

 

[Flash]

In a way it can help Mitsubishi a ton.

17 year old cars being comeptitive in a scene that has a crap load of newer car. Mitsu can say, " Hey guys, look at what our 17 year old cars tearing up the track, imagine what our newest technology can do!".

If it only worked that way.

The best way I see possible is if people started a little series at their local track. Maybe something of the sort like Ludachris suggested a while back, like a DSM road race event at a central location. Then seek sponsors for those events from companies such as Tire Rack, Toyo, Nitto, Royal Purple, etc... Just thinking outside the 9 dots.

 

[Defiant]

I've always wondered why no Mitsubishi officials, nor even designers nor line workers don't show up on boards.

 

[Ludachris]

It's not impossible. Look at the Mitsubishi Owners Day held in Socal. I think they've done that a couple years in a row now. If we had enough passionate racers that would be willing to support a national event that was centered around road racing I'm sure the people at Mitsu would look our way. Unfortunately I just don't see us having the numbers we need to make it happen. We just don't have enough dedicated racers at this point who'd be willing to make a drive out from the east and west coast for a road race event, and most of the DSM racers are on a tight budget.

In my opinion we just don't have the passion that other automotive enthusiast groups have. No offense to anyone but that's just what I've noticed. When it comes down to it there isn't enough dedication in the DSM world. There is a small group of dedicated people in our market but not enough to make Mitsu notice us and support us. I wish that were not true.

I'll keep doing what I can to change that by giving incentives to go racing. Not sure what else I can do. The main difference between us and the 510 group is they have older enthusiasts who are dedicated to racing and have more disposable income. Our group is made up of younger kids who get excited about racing mustangs at street lights and trying to dream up ways of making huge power on a McDonalds salary. There are very few people who put effort into real racing programs which is why we aren't taken seriously. Even the Honda crowd has us beat in that regard. Until we get more people like Greg Collier who dedicate themselves to racing you can expect things to remain the same.

If you want Mitsu to take notice, go out and race your car and make them take notice. When we have more championship DSMs it will be hard to ignore.

 

[jtmcinder]

I've always wondered why no Mitsubishi officials, nor even designers nor line workers don't show up on boards.

A few moments after I read the above, my left temporal lobe crawled out through my ear and started whapping me in the face. I beggeth of thee: no more quadruple negatives.

- Jtoby


.

 

[Slow old poop]

The main difference between us and the 510 group is they have older enthusiasts who are dedicated to racing and have more disposable income. Our group is made up of younger kids who get excited about racing mustangs at street lights and trying to dream up ways of making huge power on a McDonalds salary. .

Back in the 1970s, our 510 "group" was a bunch of 20ish-ers who wanted to go pro rallying and Datsun made it possible with cheap parts. Entry fees were dirt cheap, too. We'd get 70 cars out for for an illegal, Saturday night crash-and-burn pro rally in the dead of winter, because guys wanted to run that stuff. I went to a TSD rally once after a huge snowstorm, and 100 cars showed up! They came out of the woodwork just for the chance to run in the snow. We can't seem to generate that kind of enthusiasm for road racing.

Today, a race weekend can cost $1,000, what with towing, entry fees, tires, gas, hotel, meals, and crew expenses. You gotta really love it to do this stuff.

If you want Mitsu to take notice, go out and race your car and make them take notice. When we have more championship DSMs it will be hard to ignore.

I am trying as hard as I can to win a national championship, but I keep breaking my car. I'm sure it is a winner, but it doesn't stay together long enough to prove it. I should be running next weekend at Putman, but we are still trying to figure out what we did to it at Iowa Speedway. *sigh* And I am still not even classed, because I can't keep it together long enough to get it dynoed. Mr Never on Sunday may be stuck in TTR for the rest of the season!

Greg Collier, where are you when we really need you to lead us? Come back, Shane. We miss you, your exploits, and your leadership.

Rich

 

[Slow old poop]

A few moments after I read the above, my left temporal lobe crawled out through my ear and started whapping me in the face. I beggeth of thee: no more quadruple negatives.
.

One of the better comments I ever heard on this forum.

We must never not press on dis-irregardlessly. How many is that? Five?

 

[EvolvingGST]

There are several reasons Mitsu went under and many theories.

I always like the Mitsu keeps killing off their flagship cars. The only company to ever kill off a flagship car that I know of is Toyota and it could be arguable what their flag ship car is. When growing up I remember Nissan had the 240sx, 300zx, Skylines, Honda had their NSX, Toyota the Celica GT4, MR2, Supra, and Mitsu had the Eclipse, 3000GT, Evo, and even the almighty Pajero.

Since the times Mitsu and Toyota has been the only one who killed their flagships faster than any other company. I mean a company needs a flagship car to get people into the dealership Vipers, Vettes, Stangs, GT1, how much money do they actually make? Exactly its the point of getting the name out there.

Yes I agree with the fact that Mitsu sucks at honoring their warantees but I think this situation has nothing to do with the dealer at all. I think we as a community like the drag better than like the AutoX. I mean you ask people which import they wont line up against, they'de probably say the DSM. But noone thinks of us a Auto X car, we are seen as a drag car, I mean with Buschur, Rau and Shep I mean thats where we get our name from.

We need to just change our image, but AutoX is costly.

 

[Greg Collier]

Hey Rich,

I'm always looking in on what's going on and will try to add my 2-cents when it has some value. Your mechanical problems are typical when starting a new race program. If there was a single solution to be a success right out of the box I never found it. I can tell that every part on the Banana had been changed due to age, wear, or breakage, and it was a never-ending process (and that's what racing is all about!)

As far as Mitsubishi wanting to be involved with anything other than their latest creations is a pipe dream. I saw this first hand with RRE trying to get Mitsubishi to support their 4th gen USTCC program----it didn't happen and someone ended up putting out a lot of cash building a race car that never raced. Your best bet is to get the after-market boys behind you showing off their wares on your car. But of course you have to have some success to get your foot in the door. I see both Chris and Kyle busting their butts trying to make those realities come true!

Bottom line is it's all about perseverance, patience, and $$$... I look at what all you guys are doing and I salute you, and hope you keep in the game. It was SO worth it to me!