DSMs could rule the tracks

[Slow old poop]

i know what you're saying, but i really don't know enough about HPDE classes in other clubs or sanctions to execute a proper fudging. can you give me some additional info? thanks again!

HPDE1 is for rank beginners.
HPDE2 is for people with a little experience.
HPDE3 is for people with more experience.
HPDE4 is for people who are ready to try open passing.

Nobody else has this classing system.

I am certain that you ran two HPDEs at BMW or Porsche club events in beginner classes in 2006. Probably at Lime Rock, Pocono, or whatever is nearby. The beginner classes are usually Group A. You need to have a little experience to get into HPDE2, and I am certain that you have what you need.

Rich

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

wow they run hpde 1, 2, 3 together? How is that even ####ing possible? I would be annoyed to have really big newbies with experienced people at the same time. Even the Summit Main track, driving event with mercedes was seperated. Its just not smart to put them together.

Ps- that was ####ing fun as shit today, im exhausted.

 

[Slow old poop]

wow they run hpde 1, 2, 3 together? How is that even ####ing possible? I would be annoyed to have really big newbies with experienced people at the same time. Even the Summit Main track, driving event with mercedes was seperated. Its just not smart to put them together. Ps- that was ####ing fun as shit today, im exhausted.

A typical schedule for a NASA weekend puts these run groups together:

HPDE 1, 2 3
HPDE 4 and TT
Race Group A
Race Group B

Each gets 20 minutes, so we all get to run 4 times a day.

Don't forget, HPDE 1, 2 and 3 is like Group A anywhere else: Limited passing, pass only with a point, instructors riding along with 1 and 2.

It works. NASA has little or no body damage in any classes, and NO car-to-car contact in HPDE. HPDE 1, 2, and 3 is just their way of tracking your progress. It's a good system. You don't get into HPDE4 (open passing) without a signoff from an instructor

 

[customdsm]

Just thought I'd put my two cents in on this topic. I guess would just be rehashing things others have said already. I would love to go AutoX in my talon. Probably SCCA though, as I would be a newbie when it comes to racing, and that is a good place to start. Or just road racing period no matter the car (ok maybe not a ford), I think its wonderful sport. But, I have noticed a reliability problem with DSM's, and I would be a tight budget. I don't think I've ever meet a DSM owner that hasn't done some sort of major repair work to their car just to keep it running and it only has like say 150k or less on it. I mean I had a '85 GTI and put 330k miles on it with the occasional clutch and belt, but never needed a head rebuild, need piston, tranny or anything. And I had toyota with 250k miles on it, only thing major was a waterpump. Granted those cars weren't raced, but neither are all DSM's I'm talking about, I see a lot of them in need of something major for sale all the time and were just daily drivers. My name is kinda' a play on this, because I always have to end up doing some sort of "custom" work to get my car running again after mod or repair. For example someone might ask why did you redo your valves, that's a lot of work? Oh, because this is a custom dsm, it needs "special" valves. Granted these cars are generally abused by the time we get them, but that's not an excuse. I don't think mitsh is gonna' support a grassroots racing anytime soon. Simply put, the company is run horribly and would not be suprised if the closed with the next 10 years. Maybe toyota will buy them out before then? Maybe if there was autoX team in CO I could join just to get exp how it goes and what not, that might be fun. I haven't really looked seriously yet for a team to join, so I don't know. But running my own car? I kinda' agree with member my precious on that one. Sure the talon has a ton of potential, handles great and has the whole massive cult following behind it, but I'm almost tempted to sale it to get some else a little cheaper to run and has a company that supports racing. Mazda would be a better choice for the company alone. Perhaps a miata or old RX-7 FC?

 

[Slow old poop]

Sure the talon has a ton of potential, handles great and has the whole massive cult following behind it, but I'm almost tempted to sale it to get some else a little cheaper to run and has a company that supports racing. Mazda would be a better choice for the company alone. Perhaps a miata or old RX-7 FC?

As I said somewhere, racing a DSM is not for the mechanically or financially challenged. The old cars break, everything has to be replaced, and sorting a car takes two years and lots of money. My whole point in starting this thread is to point out that DSMs can be class winners in road racing, if anybody wants to campaign one and put up with the aggravation.

Sure, a Miata is a good poor man's racing vehicle, but you won't win with it. It's not even fast.

 

[customdsm]

I agree. I would like to race my dsm, they are not that hard fix, i definitely know it could win it's class. Especially since most of the people like to run hondas for some reason. I never really cared for the miata as it is kinda wimpy and looks like toy car, I was just making a point that mazda seems to have better company support for racers then mitsh ever will. I've on seen one dsm at solo, and it was second gen. I just can't race by myself with a dsm, there is no way. If there is a team in need of an extra hand, willing to help support me and my car, or even if we all pitched in on one car and rotated drivers? I'd be more than willing to help out that way. BTW an FC is actually older, the last ones made stateside was in 1991.

 

[wvturbo2]

As I said somewhere, racing a DSM is not for the mechanically or financially challenged. The old cars break, everything has to be replaced, and sorting a car takes two years and lots of money. My whole point in starting this thread is to point out that DSMs can be class winners in road racing, if anybody wants to campaign one and put up with the aggravation.

Sure, a Miata is a good poor man's racing vehicle, but you won't win with it. It's not even fast.

Swap an Ls1 into the Miata or a 3 rotor turbo and You'll win. Hell if you poor do the 5.0 Mustang swap. I've seen the miata with V8 swaps raping cars on the track due to more power and still amazing handling.

 

[customdsm]

Agree, LS1 swaps are pretty popular, but you could get a generic 351 crate for cheap and probably end being faster becuase now you have more money for mods. 3 rotor turbo is ridiculous, the custom built 4 rotors are even more ridiculous. Hate to say it but I would gladly trade my dsm + cash for a 4 rotary RX-7 anyday, even if didn't have a turbo or awd.

 

[drivemusicnow]

Swap an Ls1 into the Miata or a 3 rotor turbo and You'll win. Hell if you poor do the 5.0 Mustang swap. I've seen the miata with V8 swaps raping cars on the track due to more power and still amazing handling.

except that you'd be forced into one of the highest classifications due to the rule book.

The rules will NEVER play nice with the motor swap cars. A DSM can actually be competitive at almost any level of modification (as long as you modify it to win, and not to "be fun")

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

A typical schedule for a NASA weekend puts these run groups together:

HPDE 1, 2 3
HPDE 4 and TT
Race Group A
Race Group B

Each gets 20 minutes, so we all get to run 4 times a day.

Don't forget, HPDE 1, 2 and 3 is like Group A anywhere else: Limited passing, pass only with a point, instructors riding along with 1 and 2.

It works. NASA has little or no body damage in any classes, and NO car-to-car contact in HPDE. HPDE 1, 2, and 3 is just their way of tracking your progress. It's a good system. You don't get into HPDE4 (open passing) without a signoff from an instructor

thats weird, NASA-Midatlantic seems to have completely different rules.

HPDE 4 and TT run together, then its split seperately. Each HPDE 1, 2, 3 get their own around 25 minutes and typically we just have the stinger and audobahn race together.

HPDE 1 and 2 are passes only in straights with a waveby (requires instructors except for those allowed solos signed off by instructors only in HPDE 2)

HPDE 3 is for experienced passing anywhere, with point-bys recommended. HPDE 4 is typically mostly for just instructors, and this runs with TT only in their practice sessions.


I work for Mid-Atlantic NASA events to get enough credits to go racing, thats the only way I can afford it . Also get greats views and meet new people, and watch what people do wrong .

 

[Defiant]

Sure, a Miata is a good poor man's racing vehicle, but you won't win with it.

Few "racers" ever realize they're not going to be winning, regardless what they drive. You know. Like Coulthard.

 

[outofideas327]

About that rallying...been there, done that. It ain't as easy as it looks.

That's assuming you make it through the event, without rolling it, smashing into a tree, hitting a deer, sliding off an embankment, getting stuck in a creek crossing, breaking a tie rod, or having any of dozens of mechanical items fail.

"Getting stuck in a creek crossing" reminded me of this picture from rally New York. The stage is called "Blind Pond", wonder why?
http://www.artpartphoto.com/gallery/albums/album07/NY0001.sized.jpg

You get extra points if you combine the incidents listed above, you could smash into a dead tree, roll the car onto it's roof, and have the dead tree then fall onto your car. Compliments of Paladin Rally

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Slow old poop]

"Getting stuck in a creek crossing" reminded me of this picture from rally New York. The stage is called "Blind Pond", wonder why?
http://www.artpartphoto.com/gallery/albums/album07/NY0001.sized.jpg

You get extra points if you combine the incidents listed above, you could smash into a dead tree, roll the car onto it's roof, and have the dead tree then fall onto your car. Compliments of Paladin Rally

The photo link reminds me of a stage called Sparcy Run on the Sunriser 400. It had a creek crossing with a deep hole, and we locals knew to keep to the right to avoid it. On every event, one of the leading cars would bang straight through, hit the deep hole, and get stranded, just lke the guy in the photo.

As for the tree photo, there was probably plenty of warning, but the driver didn't pay attention. Whenever there is a known hazard, such as a blind crest, vicious rock, tree stump, big hole or something evil, spectators will gather. If you see spectators, better walk softly stranger because something evil lurks there.

For example, before they allowed pace notes on the Swedish Thousand Lakes rally, spectators used to gather at a known spot after a big Yump that was followed by an immediate nasty turn to the right just before a pond. Anyone who flew the blind crest would find himself in the air, heading for the pond. What the spectators were really waiting for, though, was for the driver to hit the brakes whilst in midiar. What that would do, you see, is cause the car to do an end-o in mid air, and go into the pond on its roof to the great glee of the spectators.

Rich

 

[jtmcinder]

I don't follow. Why would hitting the brakes in the air cause the car to flip?

- Jtoby

 

[Slow old poop]

I don't follow. Why would hitting the brakes in the air cause the car to flip?

- Jtoby

When the front brakes lock, the angular momentum of the spinning tires is transferred to the body, which rotates around the front tires. Think of what happens when you hit the front brakes hard on a motorcycle.

 

[underradar92]

Motocrossers tap the rear brake in the air to rotate the front down.

 

[jtmcinder]

My first reaction to this explanation was BS. But, following the advice of my therapist, I didn't post. Rather, I pulled out my calculator.

Holy crap! Assuming a 24.5" tire, 50 mph, 60# of rotating mass with a moment arm of 16", even a 3000# car (with 62/38 balance) will flip on it's head. That is so cool.

- Jtoby

 

[Defiant]

It's all fun and games until somebody pulls out a calculator.

 

[jtmcinder]

Geek-jokes not-with-standing, do people in front-heavy cars ever hit the gas in the air to prevent the car from coming down on the nose? Until this thread, I never would have thought of this option.

- Jtoby <- doesn't watch enough WRC; doesn't have TV

 

[outofideas327]

A couple ways I've seen it done. Method 1, keep your foot in it: http://youtube.com/watch?v=LdYVAqKYI8s
Method 2, lift off slightly after you're off the ground (End of video):http://www.rocketrally.com/patrickrichard.com/videos/pat_baie2004_incar.mov