dsm vs rx7

[badbu68]

I believe a big part of apex seals death is due to lack of oiling especially in those with a mechanical omp. I think premix is a must.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

I vote 4g63 RX7.... Haha

 

[250rmike]

i have a friend with an fd and he said he wished when he bought it he would have gotten a supra instead and hes a certafied mechanic. basically its what do you know better a piston motor or a rotary. rotary are a pain to work on and odnt expect more than 50k miles depending on how you drive it before you have to rebuild.

also with most front mounts fd kits you must relocate the radiator to where it is in the picture.
the fd is a great car in dry climates for both the motor and handling. but once it gets wet they handle like crap. they just slid every where. also if your climate changes from hot to cold then expect less milage out of the motor cause that plays hel on rotarys.

both cars have enormous potential. i say if your asking this question go with the dsm. if you do decide to go with the fd make sure you do all the updates to it. youll most likely get a 93(unless you want to spend alot more) they are notoriuos for having cooling and electrical problems. i have a write up about the problems in one of the mags i have somewhere around the house. if you decide to get one let me know and ill try to find it scan it and send it to you.

as for styling the fd is my favorite car. it just has the smoothest lines of any car out the. my second choice is prolly a 99 gsx.

 

[LA97GST]

Lets think about this. Yes the fd is sexy and fast, but no back seats... I couldn't deal with it. Also my 4G63 has lasted 137,000 hard driven miles and fd's are lucky to get 50,000. No shops around here do rotary maintenance. The fd is not a practical car and they don't get very good gas mileage (not saying my blown HG dsm gets good milage). Overall I would rather have a DSM over the fd.

 

[Keshav]

my .02

I owned a 13b powered RX7 for 11 years. It was ready for its 3rd transmission by the time I gave it to charity and bought my Subaru. It had 255,000 miles on the clock and the engine had never been opened. Nearly every major part had been replaced, except the engine. It used a little oil, but not as much as my 85k mile 1g does right now. The engine was so smooth that I would never think twice about running to redline.

Yes, it had a huge oil cooler. and no turbo. Thats the difference.

What would be really cool would be to put a RENESIS engine into an FD .... mmmm....

 

[punishercb]

Huh, funny that I just came across this thread. I just helped my brother pick up a 94 fd. He loves it and now we're arguing who would win if we raced. I'd love to try but I'm out of state and don't have my dsm with me. It is a really nice car, the suspension is smooth and steering is VERY VERY tight. If you think on turning it does it for you. To be honest though, I would honestly rather have my dsm. It's easier to work on and alot cheaper. Granted rx-7 parts are cheap but I still think dsm's are cheaper. Plus, there's no backseat! That is driving me crazy! The car is extremely small too. I'm 6'2" and I can barely fit in the driver seat. I hav room but not much. The clutch is stiffer than a stock dsm's but it's still great. The shifter is awesome! I have a short throw on my eclipse and the rx-7's shifter is just as short....stock! It just snicks into gears too. I really like it. All in all though, I think dsm's are just more practical and easier to own.

 

[mirkoelek]

what is the resonable price for one of the stock fds?

 

[punishercb]

You can pick up a decent rx-7 for about 12,000. But you could also find a fixer-upper for about 7,000-10,000. That's just an idea.

 

[99gst_racer]

what is the resonable price for one of the stock fds?

My buddy just sold his 93 R1 about 10 days ago. He was lucky to get what he got out of it. He got $16900. It was mostly stock with 22K original miles on the clock. Only mods he did was 3" turbo-back, intake, radiator, AST, and Corbeau seats.

 

[Maglin]

The interior of the FD is much nicer than the DSM and the stock seats are so nice and comfortable. The rotory is definitly sweet when you have it tuned right. My buddy has a 93 base w/JIC FLA-2's and some 18x10 Forgelines w/advans on it... Thing just looks gorgous.. It's already wasted 4 apex seals and on it's third motor which is a new J-spec 13BREW... You will want to learn how to tear your rotory apart to replace apex seals btw..

If I had the money I would go with a FD and you definitly want to go single turbo..

If you are on a budget and don't have 2.5K to kept for those often rainy days then go for the GSX. Not to expensive when they tear up...

 

[GVR4592]

When we built the rx7 we bought almost everything from pettit racing. Overall it was a pretty bad decision on our part. It took about 6 months to get most of the parts and we were overcharged for a lot of things. We ordered a sx fuel pressure regulator and they sent us a non adjustable bosch and wouldn't refund our money. They sent us a pulley kit that was 2 different colors. We were supposed to get an ic with pipes for a single turbo and we got twin turbo pipes. We ordered an act clutch and they sent us a clutch masters stage 1 and charged us $525. There's more, but in the end we got most of our money back, and it took almost a year.

As for reliability, people will say that fd's are not reliable and I think that it's all dependent on the owner.

 

[ekanddsm]

Certified Mazda Tech here! Yup factory trained and all, I hate FD's, biggest pain in the ass car ever. I am on this site because I used my brain and picked up a dsm, I had the chance to buy a 95 FD with the r2 aero package for 1500- minus the one rotor not make boom boom. No thanks. I agree it is a beatiful car, But when i do repairs on FD's the customer is usually required to leave a deposit. When they come in, the owner tried to take the cheap route(Pep Boys) and I end up with vacuum solenoids crossed connectors.
But your in luck if you own a FD, They make all the original parts still.
I'll preach up and down, a FD is a pain, They cost way more to keep on the road, than a dsm. I beilive a FD has its best power with a high/low turbo setup.

Because the oem twin turbo setup was just stupid, It boost from the low turbo in the low end power range, and sends the spoolin boost from the high turbo to the air filter housing. Then the high turbo closes a valve,(Which over time, begins to stick causing surging) and boost pressure falls from 8 psi to 4 psi because both turbos start to work at the same time then the boost get limited back up to 10 psi.

Scared yet, Dont get me started on the electronics that control all of that, oh yea, there no trouble codes, no engine light, and car will run poorly,lack of power, buck, smoke.

Not to discourage you, But I'm certified on them, and I wouldnt own one. You would almost have to own 2, to keep one on the road. I dont know who was saying parts are cheap, But I have known average engine replacement in a stock FD runs in our shop roughly 6k, about 30 hours of labor, roughly 2500 in labor,

I would rather build me a 10 sec dsm than fix a FD to put it back on the road so I could feel like Vin Diesel.

j/k if diesel reads this

 

[mirkoelek]

Certified Mazda Tech here! Yup factory trained and all, I hate FD's, biggest pain in the ass car ever. I am on this site because I used my brain and picked up a dsm, I had the chance to buy a 95 FD with the r2 aero package for 1500- minus the one rotor not make boom boom. No thanks. I agree it is a beatiful car, But when i do repairs on FD's the customer is usually required to leave a deposit. When they come in, the owner tried to take the cheap route(Pep Boys) and I end up with vacuum solenoids crossed connectors.
But your in luck if you own a FD, They make all the original parts still.
I'll preach up and down, a FD is a pain, They cost way more to keep on the road, than a dsm. I beilive a FD has its best power with a high/low turbo setup.

Because the oem twin turbo setup was just stupid, It boost from the low turbo in the low end power range, and sends the spoolin boost from the high turbo to the air filter housing. Then the high turbo closes a valve,(Which over time, begins to stick causing surging) and boost pressure falls from 8 psi to 4 psi because both turbos start to work at the same time then the boost get limited back up to 10 psi.

Scared yet, Dont get me started on the electronics that control all of that, oh yea, there no trouble codes, no engine light, and car will run poorly,lack of power, buck, smoke.

Not to discourage you, But I'm certified on them, and I wouldnt own one. You would almost have to own 2, to keep one on the road. I dont know who was saying parts are cheap, But I have known average engine replacement in a stock FD runs in our shop roughly 6k, about 30 hours of labor, roughly 2500 in labor,

I would rather build me a 10 sec dsm than fix a FD to put it back on the road so I could feel like Vin Diesel.

j/k if diesel reads this

come on dude, did you have to say all that. I was almost ready to buy one. I dont like dsm squealing, problems with transmission ..etc

thanks anyway

 

[ekanddsm]

Not to discourage, but a FD is a toy, not a reliable car by any means. Great to drive but a bi*** to work on, everything gets brittle vacuum lines breaks, connectors break, but they are very fun to drive. The mechanics pride I get is the test drive after the FD gets fix.

If you end up purchasing it, I have unpublished hand notes that a Mazda engineer, and a Master tech at the time the car was built,(he's now a Techline dude) to help describe the operation of the cars stock turbo operation, fuel injection diagnosis, so on, If you buy it, I'll send you a copy. If you wish.

 

[mirkoelek]

Not to discourage, but a FD is a toy, not a reliable car by any means. Great to drive but a bi*** to work on, everything gets brittle vacuum lines breaks, connectors break, but they are very fun to drive. The mechanics pride I get is the test drive after the FD gets fix.

If you end up purchasing it, I have unpublished hand notes that a Mazda engineer, and a Master tech at the time the car was built,(he's now a Techline dude) to help describe the operation of the cars stock turbo operation, fuel injection diagnosis, so on, If you buy it, I'll send you a copy. If you wish.

that would be great

 

[Romancer]

Get the FD.

 

[1gn2g]

AWD DSM RULES!!!!!

 

[Defiant]

RX-7 all the way. You don't need AWD. RWD is the best.

As spoken by a FWD driver

 

[Raph]

a Local dsmer here that i know sold his gst auto for a lot of money(these cars are rare here,hence sought after) and got a jdm Rx7 from England..this was in April, i haven't seen him driving it yet,he hasn't ran at the track yet.. i think hes having issues with IT

but,
i loved the FD as a kid when they first came out,

we had a FC Cabriolet in the shop a few weeks ago..awesome car 13b turbo II spec..sweet

again,i m waiting to see/hear from my boy with his Rx7.

Oh,i asked the Mazda guys about the FD,they recommended a Rotary shop.." the best in germany,maybe all of the mainland Europe" i think it was in Munich or somewhere down that end..my point is,many people are afraid to work on FDs

 

[mirkoelek]

but if fd would would be your weekend car? I do have a honda civic for daily drive. I just need fast enjoyable, confortable and fun car.........dsm or rx7.................if something breaks i wouldnt have to worry about it too much, i do have my too slow and too reliable honda( i love this car man ). If somethings breaks I would have time to gain some money and to fix it.......

 

[WIDECLIPSE]

I say buy the FD and sell me the gsx.

Also, I don't know if I would upgrade to the 3mm apex seals unless you are going for big BIG power. The 2mm will suffice and they will fit without having to deal with machining for the 3mm's.

 

[mirkoelek]

I say buy the FD and sell me the gsx.

Also, I don't know if I would upgrade to the 3mm apex seals unless you are going for big BIG power. The 2mm will suffice and they will fit without having to deal with machining for the 3mm's.

dude i dont what apex seal is

 

[GVR4592]

Not to discourage, but a FD is a toy, not a reliable car by any means. Great to drive but a bi*** to work on, everything gets brittle vacuum lines breaks, connectors break, but they are very fun to drive. The mechanics pride I get is the test drive after the FD gets fix.

With the proper maintenance, tuning and cooling system upgrades an fd will be just as reliable as any other modified turbocharged car. Yes vacuum lines will get brittle and break, but show me a 13 year old turbocharged car that doesn't have broken factory vacuum lines. The car in the picture I posted has about every possible modification done to it, and it did not have any reliability problems. The mods weren't on the extreme side but enough to make 400 whp at 15 psi. The only problem with the car was the owner and his lack of maintenance. Like I said earlier if you upgrade the cooling system and go with a single turbo you eliminate 90% of the reliability issues.

An apex seal serves the same purpose as a set of piston rings do. They are seated at the 3 "apex's" of the rotor. A set of springs beneath them provides some tension to keep the seal seated against the rotor housings. Factory apex seals are made of cast iron and are hardened at the surface. Aftermarket seals are usually the same material but there are ceramic seals and a few other materials out there. 2mm seals always seal better than 3mm seals, but the 3mm seals will take a lot more abuse. I wouldn't just tear into the motor to replace the apex seals, but if it's apart and you want some added security, then its a worthwhile upgrade.

If you want some good info on rotary engines look here http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com/

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

As spoken by a FWD driver

Right... 'cause all the 8 and 9 second V8 guys I know have AWD. Give me a break. AWD is not the end-of-all-means of traction. A RWD with a good suspension setup and sticky tires will be right with or out-hook an AWD. I've seen it plenty of times. And since you don't like anything to do with street racing, clearly I'm talking about hooking at the track. That's the one thing I can't stand about DSM people. "Oh, man... if you're not AWD, your traction will suck. We're the shit!" And your little just furthers my point. AWD is best, right? "Hey, I have AWD and someone doesn't think it's the best like I do... I better show him!"

 

[ACKERSON]

I know that with my setup I can light up the tires in any gear if I was fwd or rwd. I don't want to have to sink tons of time and money into getting traction. I dont know much about the 60' times of fwd and rwd cars, but I dont think that there are too many of them that can run sub 1.8 60' times with street tires on a daily basis.

As for the RX7 there are tons of upgrades for the rear suspension if thats what you want. The red fd in the pic has tubular rear suspension links and H&R suspension package, and traction is still kinda sketchy. 3rd gear pulls on the freeway have to be about 3/4 throttle until 4th gear. We never had the opportunity to take it to the track but I would guess it to be a mid to low 11 second car with slicks.