Disengagement problem !!

[ali_viento]

Hi Everybody ,

The clutch kit on this car is clutchnet stage 3 RED PP with clutchnet kevlar disc and ACT streetlite FW then i just replaced the old ones for New master , slave , shift fork , pivot ball that shimmed with 2-1.5 mm washer and adjust the pedal properly like the Jacks said on his video and bled more than 10 times with my firends but still cant shift into gear when engine running and i doubt maybe the slave cant force the shift fork completely , please check the pics !!

clutch fork when push pedal

Clutch fork whitout push pedal

please let me know what you think about this problem !?
Thank you !

 

[luv2rallye]

Pivot ball is shimmed WAY too much so fork doesn't go over far enough to release clutch disk. The pedal up (engaged) position should have fork just the engine side of window halfway point as shown here: http://www.teamrip.com/when_why_and_how_to_shim_pivot_ball_info.html.

Yours sits at the engine side edge of window. You've got a shim of 0.12" where my pic below (stock) has 0.071"!!! You probably don't need to shim at all (or something less than 0.06" if you do). Unfortuately I know of no way to know without mounting the bell housing on the engine without a shim to see where you stand and then trying different shims if it's not right (there's no way to calculate it - if someone knows a way please chime in). I would guess in your case no shim is going to be the case, however. The fork is what wears down where pivot ball makes contact - not the pivot ball so much. So when you buy a new fork you usually then don't need shimming (or very little if so).

 

[ali_viento]

Pivot ball is shimmed WAY too much so fork doesn't go over far enough to release clutch disk. The pedal up (engaged) position should have fork just the engine side of window halfway point as shown here: TRE TECH TIPS.

Yours sits at the engine side edge of window. You've got a shim of 0.12" where my pic below (stock) has 0.071"!!! You probably don't need to shim at all (or something less than 0.06" if you do). Unfortuately I know of no way to know without mounting the bell housing on the engine without a shim to see where you stand and then trying different shims if it's not right (there's no way to calculate it - if someone knows a way please chime in). I would guess in your case no shim is going to be the case, however. The fork is what wears down where pivot ball makes contact - not the pivot ball so much. So when you buy a new fork you usually then don't need shimming (or very little if so).

Thanks Gary for reply but you really think my problem comes from shimmed under the pivot ball ? i ask it cause i already had the same shift fork location on my galant but after adjusting pedal still its shift perfect , plus since there is picture shows here that if the clutch fork comes closer to right ( engine side window ) its ok and no needs to worry http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclipsetech/clutch/armcentered.jpg
then i doubt maybe clutchnet stg 3 / kevlar disc does not the good combo with ACT FW !!?? maybe ACT FW needs another steps as we know to set with clutchnet kit ??? another reason that i saw some threads that ppl already had some problem with kevlar disc even when all drivtrain parts brand new !!

Thanks again

 

[luv2rallye]

On second thought, I guess where you have it is ok as long as when you press the pedal all the way down to the floor, the clutch spring plate fingers don't bump into the clutch disk (because the throwout bearing moves too far). I had mine shimmed too much and that is exactly what happened (so when I saw where you had it, a red light went off).

Did you have the clutch fork over towards the passenger side so that the TOB is just barely touching (don't preload the TOB on the PP though) the spring plate fingers of clutch when you adjusted master pedal up position? Perhaps you should watch it as someone slowly presses clutch pedal with their hand to see how much pedal throw there is before fork starts moving. If too much slop in master or slave, that may not allow the fork to move far enough to release PP.

I know nothing about possible problems with the clutchnet stg 3 / kevlar disc combo with ACT FW. You may have something there and have to ask others who have tryed it.

 

[luv2rallye]

Do you have a non-oem master? I've heard some say "the majority of non OEM master cylinders have a shorter throw than OEM ones" which is so could be a problem. See: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...lave-cylinder-rod-question.html#post153061194.

 

[ali_viento]

Do you have a non-oem master? I've heard some say "the majority of non OEM master cylinders have a shorter throw than OEM ones" which is so could be a problem. See: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...lave-cylinder-rod-question.html#post153061194.

Yeah bro , its OEM Master and OEM slave , is it help if i will take a video from shift and TOB from window ?

 

[luv2rallye]

Well your travel looks ok to me - maybe someone else could tell something though. My fork travels about 1.7cm to give you an idea.

 

[ali_viento]

Yesterday i just got the video from the shift fork wokrs and you can also see the clutch PP and TOB from window , please let me know what you think about it .

clutch disengagment video

Thanks

 

[twicks69]

Remove all your shims.

It looks like you are partially disengaging your clutch with the pedal up, and over disengaging your clutch with the current adjustment point.

 

[ali_viento]

Remove all your shims.

It looks like you are partially disengaging your clutch with the pedal up, and over disengaging your clutch with the current adjustment point.

thanks for reply,

I think you means that shift fork doesnt have any free play at the end of window ? but there is small free play over there and i really dont think shimming is my problem , i can show you on another video the shift fork end play . i doubt maybe the ACT FW steps is wrong with Clutchnet STG 3 and clutchnet Kevlar disc ( TZ-8037 ) , isnt it ?! in other thought when i just measure the ACT street disc , its around .32" and i dont think its thicker than clutchnet kevlar ( maybe around .28~.30 ) .

 

[luv2rallye]

Ya, is your flywheel step height correct? That could easily be the problem if it's incorrect for your disk and PP.
Some info: RRE's Clutch And Flywheel Tech Info

 

[ali_viento]

Ya, is your flywheel step height correct? That could easily be the problem if it's incorrect for your disk and PP.
Some info: RRE's Clutch And Flywheel Tech Info

yeah im agree with you Gary , then i just need to know the right FW step for Clutchnet STG 3 with clutchnet Kevlar/kevlar disc ( i asked the clutchnet for spec ) . since i know my ACT FW step is .610 like as OEM that its works on ACT clutch kit but im not sure for this clutch kit !!??

Here is another Video that i got from the shift fork end play with hand , then you can see there is small shaft play here then what you think now ?! still needs to remove shim or is the shimming really my problem ?! Thanks

Shift Fork End Play

 

[ali_viento]

After alot exam and error on salve , master , rods , clutch pedal adjustment , bleed bleed bleeding more than 100 times then i found my problem with an advice from my friend , when he saw my video from clutch fork and TOB movement , he told me that my PP fingers is not flat as normal and it seems its abnormal , then i decided to remove transmission and recheck everything one more time and fortunately one of my friend have an extra brand new ACT 2600 with street disc and i just borrow it to test and compare with this clutchnet kit , then i found the ACT 2600 sits as flat as normal like always , it means the clutchnet PP will not work with ACT FW step ( .610 ) then to make sure everything will comes good if i change the clutch kit , i just installed the ACT 2600 with street disc and bleed the system more than 10 times and again starts the engine to try what happen after that and yesss i could shift to the gears for the first time after rebuild and since i just adjusted the clutch pedal properly , its shift nice and works like a charm .
Now needs to order new clutch kit like ACT 2900 with 4 or 6 puck or even street disc .

Thank you Gary and Tim for your kind advices