Day at the Track, Good and Bad

[Syndicate13]

There were a few of us who made the trek this morning. I was mainly going to do some tuning on the car with the help of some old school DSM guys. There were very few of them there and I didn't meet up with them until later on anyway. Day was perfect, overcast and cool with no humidity. We drove through a couple spots of rain but there wasn't a hint of it at the track.

Made a few small adjustments when I first got there and went out to make a test pass. Rolled off the line and short shifted until I was in 3rd, sure the crowd loved that. Let off at the top of 3rd and coasted down. I couldn't help but chuckle when I received my timeslip, here's how it broke down.

60-3.668
1/8-15.786
MPH-57.08
1/4-21.152
MPH-96.35

Got back around, had some weird looks. Log looked clean but still way rich. Made a few more adjustments, it was getting a little late and the place was packed. I was worried I wouldn't get another run in after this second one coming up so I decided to just go for it as long as the knock light didn't come on. Bogged the launch and the slip looked like this.

60-2.197
1/8-8.238
MPH-94.43
1/4-12.424
MPH-118.70

I was talked to by the timeslip attendant that I was running too quick to not have a helmet. I had brough one with me I just hadn't thought I'd need it after two tweeks. Car was moving though, more than full weight 2G going 119 is making some power. I was hoping to run again until I got back to the pits.

I could smell a little coolant and the car was running slightly hotter than normal. Pop the hood and the overflow is full with splash everywhere. I drove the car home without incident and next week I'll look into whether I just lifted the head using stock studs or blew the gasket. All in all it was a good day, I ran an awesome time and made it home under it's own power.

 

[andymoraitis]

Anytime you can hurt parts and call it a good day that's what I'll refer to as a positive attitude. That Green was hauling the mail on the top end. It's just too bad you couldn't hook up properly. Your traps are easily good enough for 11.60's or better with a decent 60'. What I find strange is that when I raced NMCA F/EFI and FFW T/Stock in my old Mustang, Bradenton was the track we looked forward to visiting since the grip was always amazing. I can't tell you how many Auburn locking diffs we changed in the pit area because the grip was almost too good.

While we're at it I'd venture a guess that you popped the head gasket.

Really nice traps regardless,

Andy

 

[Syndicate13]

Anytime you can hurt parts and call it a good day that's what I'll refer to as a positive attitude. That Green was hauling the mail on the top end. It's just too bad you couldn't hook up properly. Your traps are easily good enough for 11.60's or better with a decent 60'. What I find strange is that when I raced NMCA F/EFI and FFW T/Stock in my old Mustang, Bradenton was the track we looked forward to visiting since the grip was always amazing. I can't tell you how many Auburn locking diffs we changed in the pit area because the grip was almost too good.

While we're at it I'd venture a guess that you popped the head gasket.

Really nice traps regardless,

Andy

Yeah, almost 25mph on the back half is certainly moving up top. It has a lot more in it I'm sure. It wasn't a lack of grip that hurt me, I almost smacked my face on the wheel I bogged it so hard. When I spin is when I 60' the best.

 

[andymoraitis]

Now that sounds more like Bradenton conditions. I usually end up with high 1.6's or low 1.7's when they chirp repeatedly through first gear. It's too bad you didn't get another run in to pop an 11 but she's definitely got the power.

I meant to ask, how much boost and timing were you running?

 

[Syndicate13]

Now that sounds more like Bradenton conditions. I usually end up with high 1.6's or low 1.7's when they chirp repeatedly through first gear. It's too bad you didn't get another run in to pop an 11 but she's definitely got the power.

I meant to ask, how much boost and timing were you running?

25psi on pump and methanol. It wasn't knocking, I have the CEL set to come on at 3 degrees and it never flashed. I've been driving around on 25psi for a while now, maybe my stock headbolts and gasket just finally gave up. Timing was 15 degrees, I was losing one degree for high intake temps. Today was my first tuning session, I just removed a bit of fuel and hadn't gotten around to forcing timing yet.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Good Job, sounds like our cars are pretty simlilar in terms of power. I gotta look into Meth Injection so I can run some reall boost.

 

[wishihadatalon]

Yeah, almost 25mph on the back half is certainly moving up top. It has a lot more in it I'm sure. It wasn't a lack of grip that hurt me, I almost smacked my face on the wheel I bogged it so hard. When I spin is when I 60' the best.

Ride the clutch Sounds like the car is cooking.

 

[Syndicate13]

Good Job, sounds like our cars are pretty simlilar in terms of power. I gotta look into Meth Injection so I can run some reall boost.

That means a lot to me. You've been someone I've been gunning for recently. On my old setup I was always after Newb2DSM, we had very similar setups and in the end ran almost identical times in the 1/8. I never got the car to the 1/4 in that state though. We have similar setups so I've been looking at your times as something to compete with.

 

[andymoraitis]

if you do in fact find out that the headgasket took a dump I'd put on an OEM composite and a set of ARP's since it's been proven to hold big power just fine.

Regarding your tune, setting Link for 3 degrees of knock retard is equivalent to 16 counts of knock on a 2G and that's much more than I'd want to see on pump (even with methanol). It's certainly enough to pop a gasket under that much boost pressure. I'd consider setting that much lower if you can. Optimal would be less than 1 degree if you can swing that. I don't use Link so I don't know if it can show something like 1/2 degree but that would have been a great place to jump out of the gas.

I know you saw one degree of retard from high IAT's, but I'd love to see a log to physically verify just how much knock you had. Also, what was the wideband reading?

Just a thought...

 

[nanokpsi]

The knock light being set for 3* means the light comes on if the car has 3 deg of knock IIRC, not 3* of retard. 3* is tighter than the default whihc is set to 5*. Setting it to one and it would almost contanatly be on.

 

[andymoraitis]

Thank you for clearing that up as I had always thought it was the opposite.

 

[Syndicate13]

I already placed my order for the ARP's and I have an OEM gasket lying around somewhere. I just need some copper spray for it. Most people on the Link forums ignore knock counts under 2, I had 1.7 at the top of 3rd and into 4th. The CEL is set to flash at 5* normally, I run mine a little lower for safety reasons. The wideband was reading low 10's all the way across.

 

[CanadianTSi]

All my runs are made with about 4-5 Degree's of Knock Retard (whats that 20+ counts?) Gotta love the S-AFC

 

[andymoraitis]

All my runs are made with about 4-5 Degree's of Knock Retard (whats that 20+ counts?) Gotta love the S-AFC

Damn Ty, now that's the kind of knock that can hurt stock parts. So you know, it works like this:

7 counts = timing held
10 counts = 1 degree of timing retard
13 counts = 2 degrees of retard, etc, etc up to 43

Basically every 3 counts pulls 1 degree above 7 counts.

At 5 degrees of knock retard you had ~22 counts of knock. I'd upsize the injectors and fuel pump to make sure you're not starving the motor at the rail but I know the AFC can't be helping. Then again with a better 60', your car is an 11.50 waiting to happen. Damn good on pump gas if you ask me.

The wideband was reading low 10's all the way across.

Low 10's for an AFR is pretty rich considering that you have methanol. I'd try at least 11-11.5:1 and see how much she picks up. I'll bet it's pretty significant since low 10's is hardly above the stock ECU's target.

 

[91-gsx]

Damn Ty, now that's the kind of knock that can hurt stock parts. So you know, it works like this:

7 counts = timing held
10 counts = 1 degree of timing retard
13 counts = 2 degrees of retard, etc, etc up to 43

Basically every 3 counts pulls 1 degree above 7 counts.

At 5 degrees of knock retard you had ~22 counts of knock. I'd upsize the injectors and fuel pump to make sure you're not starving the motor at the rail but I know the AFC can't be helping. Then again with a better 60', your car is an 11.50 waiting to happen. Damn good on pump gas if you ask me.



Low 10's for an AFR is pretty rich considering that you have methanol. I'd try at least 11-11.5:1 and see how much she picks up. I'll bet it's pretty significant since low 10's is hardly above the stock ECU's target.

I'm sorry this is a bit off topic, but on it at the same time. I know 2g dsms can only log knock retard, but 1g dsms can log knock counts. Does that mean I can have the check engine light come on at a certain amount of knock counts, or does it have to be knock retard?
thanks for the help, and sorry for being a bit off subject. BTW, great runs Syndicate13. With a bit more boost and leaner a/f ratio, why not low 11's high 10's .

 

[wishihadatalon]

Damn Ty, now that's the kind of knock that can hurt stock parts. So you know, it works like this:

7 counts = timing held
10 counts = 1 degree of timing retard
13 counts = 2 degrees of retard, etc, etc up to 43

Basically every 3 counts pulls 1 degree above 7 counts.

At 5 degrees of knock retard you had ~22 counts of knock. I'd upsize the injectors and fuel pump to make sure you're not starving the motor at the rail but I know the AFC can't be helping. Then again with a better 60', your car is an 11.50 waiting to happen. Damn good on pump gas if you ask me.



Low 10's for an AFR is pretty rich considering that you have methanol. I'd try at least 11-11.5:1 and see how much she picks up. I'll bet it's pretty significant since low 10's is hardly above the stock ECU's target.

When I went 12.1 on the 16g with mixed 110 and 93 my logger showed the max of 43 counts It was from my serious boost spike. After it settled the number started to fall. With my standalone there was no timing pull so obviously I didn't care about my motor. But she held like a trooper.

P.s. I love you 4g63

 

[Syndicate13]

Low 10's for an AFR is pretty rich considering that you have methanol. I'd try at least 11-11.5:1 and see how much she picks up. I'll bet it's pretty significant since low 10's is hardly above the stock ECU's target.

That was my very first attempt at tuning the car ever. I was always afraid to do it since I thought I might mess up and after waiting almost a year for someone else to help me and something always coming in the way I decided to just go for it. I'm pulling 20% out on the top end and my meth controller is only on halfway. I have a relatively small jet so I need to pull a ton more fuel and crank the meth up.

 

[91-gsx]

Syndicate13 how has the evo 3 intake manifold worked out for you? Have you noticed any gains in the top end? Loss in the bottom end? Any feedback would be appreciated.
later

 

[andymoraitis]

That was my very first attempt at tuning the car ever. I was always afraid to do it since I thought I might mess up and after waiting almost a year for someone else to help me and something always coming in the way I decided to just go for it. I'm pulling 20% out on the top end and my meth controller is only on halfway. I have a relatively small jet so I need to pull a ton more fuel and crank the meth up.

You made a smart move by playing it safe and I commend you for it. Now that you know there's more in there you can try more passes while leaning out just a bit more and cranking on the methanol. There's plenty left but you're going about it the right way.

 

[Syndicate13]

Syndicate13 how has the evo 3 intake manifold worked out for you? Have you noticed any gains in the top end? Loss in the bottom end? Any feedback would be appreciated.
later

I can't really comment too much. I installed my cams and 3 days later spun a rod bearing never having done any tuning or track visits on them alone. I swapped to the Evo3 intake, 1G TB, and 6 bolt at the same time. I doubt it's hurting me and the top end my car showed yesterday supports that. 25 mph gain on the back half is smoking, especially for a car that isn't dialed in totally.

PS: The Evo3 intake has a plenum that matches a 60mm 1G TB with 9 inch runners and a 2G head port size. It's 3 inches shorter than any DSM manifold and sort of a combo of a 1G and 2G intake.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

That was my very first attempt at tuning the car ever. I was always afraid to do it since I thought I might mess up and after waiting almost a year for someone else to help me and something always coming in the way I decided to just go for it. I'm pulling 20% out on the top end and my meth controller is only on halfway. I have a relatively small jet so I need to pull a ton more fuel and crank the meth up.

Hey man, you have link. Find a nice flat road, make sure there is no one on it. Go do 3rd gear pulls from like 3000 rpms. Make adjustments basted on your logs. If you get confused, post them on on the Link forum and there will be a bunch of poeple there to help you. Once you get tunning down (I think you probley already do) Just keep a eye on your 70-90 times in your 3rd gear pulls and you will know if your are improving. Nice setup and awsome traps!

 

[Black95TSIawd]

I'm looking at my dsmlink right now and the knock light is set to go off an how many DEGS you want, which i'm assuming is degrees of retard. Good runs none the less.

 

[andymoraitis]

I'm looking at my dsmlink right now and the knock light is set to go off an how many DEGS you want, which i'm assuming is degrees of retard. Good runs none the less.

See, now that's what I always thought. I don't have Link but I'd love to see a snapshot of that screen for my own personal knowledge.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

See, now that's what I always thought. I don't have Link but I'd love to see a snapshot of that screen for my own personal knowledge.

Here you go Andy....

 

[CanadianTSi]

Yep DSMLink measures Knock in Degree's of retard, some people tune for 0 knock other's feel 1 degree is ok.

Here's a quick screenshot from my Car showing some knock, I don't think I have any of the logs where i was tuning with the S-AFC and showing a constant 5 degree's of reatard every pull.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-6/1035057/dsmlink.jpg