Critique My HX35 Setup

[WES_393]

Thanks for that bit of info Justin, I hoped you would stop by eventually.

I have verified that at my current oil feed line I have 90-95psi on a 30* cold start, 70-90psi while moving depending on speed/RPM/temperature (including WOT), and ~20psi at idle fully warmed up. If I touch the gas pedal at all at any time, the pressure shoots right up to 50-60psi. So I have the minimum requirements down, it's of course over feeding that I'm concerned with. The black filter/restrictor drilled out to a 7/64" should still be sufficient to keep me from blowing out seals, correct?

 

[JusMX141]

You'll be fine- just make sure your drain is large enough to handle the volume entering the turbo, and has no kinks.

 

[My1GLaser]

FWIW, I was at 75% IDC on 1150s flowing 55 lb/min running 60% E-85. I have hit 58-60 lb/min lately and am at about 82-83%. Target 11.8-12:1 AFR.

 

[WES_393]

This project is official as of yesterday! I know I deviated from my own plans a little, but for good reason. The seller thought it was an HX35 that wouldn't spool due to a broken shaft. It's actually an H1E with a 22cm^2 turbine housing that wouldn't spool due to stock 1.6L Honda engine. And thanks to the turbo being "broken", it cost me about the same as a full tank of gas in my Talon.

But in all seriousness, I'm really liking the numbers for the H1E. The potential with just the BEP bolt-on housing is impressive. For those wondering, my wheel specs:

Comp. Inducer: 60mm
Comp. Exducer: 82mm
Turbine Inducer: 76mm
Turbine Exducer: 64mm

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Two questions while I'm here.

1. Is this anti-seize on the housing, or oil leaking past the head shield?

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2. What brand would you guys recommend for a complete turbo rebuild kit? My up/down play is a bit more than I'm comfortable with, but the blades still aren't close to touching the housings.

 

[TJCTalon]

That turbo looks to have been recently rebuilt. I say run it how it is.

 

[WES_393]

That turbo looks to have been recently rebuilt. I say run it how it is.

I'm almost positive the previous owner said something about getting it rebalanced and I wouldnt doubt it. It was probably never ran after the rebalance either, otherwise the paint would have burnt off. But the bearings still feel sloppy. Too sloppy to be freshly rebuilt. Ill post up a video of the shaft play in a little. Plus, the turbine wheel looked a little wet when I pulled the housing.

Here's a video of the shaft play. Like I said it's not to the point of touching the housing, but is much too close for my comfort.

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[97-TSi-Hx35]

I'm almost positive the previous owner said something about getting it rebalanced and I wouldnt doubt it. It was probably never ran after the rebalance either, otherwise the paint would have burnt off. But the bearings still feel sloppy. Too sloppy to be freshly rebuilt. Ill post up a video of the shaft play in a little. Plus, the turbine wheel looked a little wet when I pulled the housing.

Here's a video of the shaft play. Like I said it's not to the point of touching the housing, but is much too close for my comfort.

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That looks like normal Holset shaft play to me.

 

[lilsam]

Run open dump! cant stand when people recirc it!!!

 

[Calan]

That looks like normal Holset shaft play to me.

That's not "normal" from what I can tell from the video; the compressor wheel is pretty much getting pushed right to the cover, or very close. FWIW, my HX-40 has VERY little lateral play after 20k+ miles...it's practically unnoticeable.

Wes - Try to log your crankcase pressure with a spare 2-bar sensor in Link if possible, to verify it stays around 0 psi. CC pressure plays a big part in determining what size oil drain you need and how well it works.

 

[dsmcurse]

Earlier in this thread the OP mentions "why change the 2G mass air flow sensor? Its good for 500HP"

I once beleived that too. Now days I don't believe that at all. I don't know, maybe I just had bad luck but I tried to make power on a stock 2G maf. Had no luck at all.

First time I ever went to the dyno (cobb tuning in portland) I had a built engine, HX40 with all supporting mods and 2G mass air flow sensor on DSMLINK V2.

I only made 250AWHP. I was pist! I remember a tuner there told me "you woulda made more power with a smaller turbo, that big turbo flows to much air thru your mass air flow and ruins the tune. Get a more cabable air flow device and you will unlock a lot more"

I took his advice, I went home, saved some coin, bought DSMLINK V3 and a 3.5" GM blow thru style mass air flow sensor. Mounted the new air sensor after my blow off valve and befor my throttle body in the intercooler pipe.

This was my only change, I came back and made I think it was 340AWHP. I remember it was nearly a 100HP increase from bein tuned on a differant maf.

The mitsu "honey-comb" style mounted in the air filter pipe befor the turbo is unpredictable at high air flow in my opinion.

Just thought I'd chime in with my 2G maf experience. Can anyone else chime in with their 2G maf experiences?

 

[WES_393]

Dsmcurse- Thanks for the insight! I'm definitely considering going GM MAF. I wouldn't risk being limited like your saying, and I could save some cash by making my own 4" intake without a record fitting. I may rig up some way to recirculate anyways, but the option is nice.

lilsam- I have actually decided to go open dump, but for the sole reason that Ill want as much exhaust flow as I can get. Having the wastegate gasses fighting to fit into a 3" pipe could hurt performance. However, I've got a plan to make it very quiet. I absolutely hate the sound of open dump tubes on a street car.

Calan- Do you think it would be accurate if I somehow T'd a boost gauge between the PCV and catch can? Obviously I would use a T that didn't block flow, but would that give me a decent idea of actual CC pressure?

And yeah, I definitely see that as too much play. My 16g doesn't even have 1/3 that much play. Ill be rebuilding it myself as well. If by some very strange chance I send it off, it'll be to Justin for a stock rebuild.

 

[bradikus7]

Nowadays with V3, speed density is the way to go. Way cleaner and virtually limitless. I like what your doing WES_393 but do yourself a favor and don't go with the bolt on setup. I've run mine for a single season and am already changing. With my stock intake manifold, cams and that tiny turbine housing, after about 28 PSI my VE is dropping the more boost I run. I'm going all out next year with a TS 12cm non-wg hotside and true TS manifold setup from PR.

 

[Calan]

Calan- Do you think it would be accurate if I somehow T'd a boost gauge between the PCV and catch can? Obviously I would use a T that didn't block flow, but would that give me a decent idea of actual CC pressure?

Hard to say. It would depend on what effect the flow going past the sensor would cause. A dedicated tap would be better, but that ^ may be accurate enough.

You could always temporarily block the IM port, and use the PCV valve port on the VC for a direct measurement. Worst case would be under full boost, when the PCV valve wouldn't be doing anything any way.

 

[JusMX141]

I'm almost positive the previous owner said something about getting it rebalanced and I wouldnt doubt it. It was probably never ran after the rebalance either, otherwise the paint would have burnt off. But the bearings still feel sloppy. Too sloppy to be freshly rebuilt. Ill post up a video of the shaft play in a little. Plus, the turbine wheel looked a little wet when I pulled the housing.

That's a fresh Cummins Reman H1E, as noted by the lack of any carbon on the turbine as well as the copper anti-sieze that every new/reman Holset has on the center housing flange. If you paid less than a tank of gas, you got an insane deal.

Don't touch the turbo or send it anywhere- it's new. Hook an oil line to it and give it hell.

 

[Calan]

Do the H1E's normally have that much shaft play Jus? Or am I just seeing the video wrong?

 

[bastarddsm]

Just thought I'd chime in with my 2G maf experience. Can anyone else chime in with their 2G maf experiences?

It's definatly a restriction, tho I don't know that I believe that was your problem. I made 550 thru mine, and that was all my little HY35 would do. 35psi and 55lbs/min. My maf was hacked pretty severly, but I still saw a 1.3 psi drop in the inlet air pressure. Meaning air going into the turbo was only 90% as the ambient air. That's bad.

I never saw any bad "over run" conditions, but it severely restricted the turbo.

I swapped the 2g maf for a 3" gm maft in blow thru, and instantly made 604whp flowing 60lbs/min, at only 33psi.

 

[WES_393]

That's a fresh Cummins Reman H1E, as noted by the lack of any carbon on the turbine as well as the copper anti-sieze that every new/reman Holset has on the center housing flange. If you paid less than a tank of gas, you got an insane deal.

Don't touch the turbo or send it anywhere- it's new. Hook an oil line to it and give it hell.

Thats great news to hear! It was just a little sketchy to see some oil on the turbine wheel, especially after supposedly being ran by a not-so-smart Honda owner. But I trust your word over most anyone else.

Calan- The video does make it seem a little worse than it is. Looking at it now, it looks as like the compressor is touching the housing, which I promise it isn't. It also has been sitting around without oil in it, so that could affect the amount of play. I'm also going to attempt to test CC pressure at the PCV valve like you said. Would you happen to know off the top of your head what thread size/pitch the PCV valve is? If not I could just take it with me to the store and match threads.

And now you've all got me second guessing whether I should just go all out with T3 and SD. It would much cheaper and leave room for growth. From my research, an OBX manifold, Tial 38mm, and BEP T3 housing would land somewhere around $700 while PR mani, PR waste gate housing, and BEP bolt-on would be upwards of $900. So I'll have to ponder that for a little. But talk about indecisive, I went from bolt-on HX35 to T3 HX40.

I'm just worried about the O2 housing. MIG welding is the extent of my metal working abilities, and I'm not great with pipe welding. Twin scroll is definitely out of the plan though, $900 for a manifold is far beyond my limits. I was thinking about giving Punishment a call and asking about the V-band/DSM O2 housing they offer with their "Hot Kit".

 

[c2ypt1c]

I'm just worried about the O2 housing. MIG welding is the extent of my metal working abilities, and I'm not great with pipe welding. Twin scroll is definitely out of the plan though, $900 for a manifold is far beyond my limits. I was thinking about giving Punishment a call and asking about the V-band/DSM O2 housing they offer with their "Hot Kit".

I'm in the same boat. It's funny because I just spent an hour today trying to make the same exact decision...it really does boil down to the o2. How much can it be made for or if the PR unit sells separately (or even with the "budget manifold") and would it mount up with the bep and downpipe. I might end up contacting PR as well...

 

[Eeeeky]

Im LOVING this thread! Perfect example of a helpful forum! Someone comes in, asks for help, listens, considers, responds quickly, and most importantly LISTENS to the people that know! My hats off to you Wes! Get that biatch running strong, and ill make the drive from utah to see the beast in action!

 

[WES_393]

I'm in the same boat. It's funny because I just spent an hour today trying to make the same exact decision...it really does boil down to the o2. How much can it be made for or if the PR unit sells separately (or even with the "budget manifold") and would it mount up with the bep and downpipe. I might end up contacting PR as well...

That's definitely s good idea. It would only make sense that they could fabricate an O2 housing that would work with their own manifold. My other thought would be an O2 eliminator that has the V-band welded straight to the downpipe like so: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...s-lets-see-your-02-housing.html#post152928426
I guess Redjack makes them, so I'll contact him and see what pricing looks like.

Im LOVING this thread! Perfect example of a helpful forum! Someone comes in, asks for help, listens, considers, responds quickly, and most importantly LISTENS to the people that know! My hats off to you Wes! Get that biatch running strong, and ill make the drive from utah to see the beast in action!

Haha thanks man. You can't argue with experience. It's one thing for people to say "I heard" or "I thought", but first-hand experience isn;t something to take lightly. I have some great guys here helping me out!

 

[Calan]

Would you happen to know off the top of your head what thread size/pitch the PCV valve is? If not I could just take it with me to the store and match threads.

It's actually a BSPP thread, but it's very close to 1/8 NPT. If the VC is coming off any time soon, you may consider doing this: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/345125-how-make-90-degree-pcv-valve.html

Besides making the PCV valve a lot easier to deal with, it will also give you a port with a common thread size for a pressure sensor, PCV valve, etc.

 

[Calan]

And now you've all got me second guessing whether I should just go all out with T3 and SD. ...I went from bolt-on HX35 to T3 HX40.

It's called project scope creep; or for us DSMer's... more HP before the original target is even hit.

In case you forgot:

...but I want 450-500hp.

****

If you aren't wanting to go far beyond the 450-500hp range, an HX35/HX40 in a simple BEP setup will make you smile... a lot.

BTW - Don't let SD scare you; it's not any more difficult than dialing in a MAF setup once you understand it. In fact, it's basically just a 2D table version of the MAFComp sliders, as far as the way you dial it in. You're a smart guy.... you'll pick it up in no time.

 

[WES_393]

That 90* bend isn't a bad idea. I still have PCV routed to the intake, but if I decide to go with a bigger catch can setup (depending what my CC pressure readings are tomorrow) I'll definitely look into that.

And I know what you mean about creeping. But there was a time when I just wanted the thing to run, then just 300hp, then just 350hp on E85, now just 450-500hp. I'm starting see a trend... It's not like I could complain if I made more power, easier, and for less money. So I guess I should edit my goals to "450-500hp, but more would be just fine".

 

[Calan]

...there was a time when I just wanted the thing to run, then just 300hp, then just 350hp on E85, now just 450-500hp. I'm starting see a trend...

I hear ya. But, once you get above 550whp or so on a heavy street car that gets driven regularly, it starts getting really expensive, really fast.

I've imposed a track limit of around 500whp or high 10's on myself, just because I enjoy driving the car so much (and I drive it every day), and I don't have the money to replace broken parts every other month. Most of the time, I actually tune it down to around 400whp or so, which is more than enough to wake me up on the way to work every morning.

Of course, YMMV.

 

[WES_393]

Thats a good point. I've been lucky in the sense that most the parts I've replaced were either old and worn or didn't fit my goals. Not much in the way of snapped axles or broken transmissions. Detuning the engine for typical driving would no doubt help avoid most of that.

I'll definitely weigh the options. I'm still a week or so away from ordering parts, so I'll have time to decide on the final product. Thanks for all the thoughts so far!