Crazy starting habits

[talonxgirl]

Ever since it started freezing steadily overnight, my Talon's developed this habit of only starting every other day. For the past week I've gone out about 3 times a day to try and start it and the pattern remains. One day it'll start up first try no problems. Next day I'll go out, spend a good half hour trying to get it to start, and all I get is a click-click-click when I release the key.

The ignition coils were just replaced two weeks ago and I tightened down every connection to the battery. There's no engine light on and it runs perfectly normal the days it starts. Is it my imagination or is every dsm possessed until you get it built? Lol

But seriously I need some help. I'm thinking it may be the ignition switch, but that seems too simple, given that every other time something's gone wrong, it's always been something completely stupid that you wouldn't originally think of.

 

[idkiliketurbos]

Does your car seem to have normal power to the radio and lights and such when this problem is happening? Batteries that are going bad might not show themselves as a problem when it's warmer outside, but when it gets cold outside they will become a problem.

 

[talonxgirl]

Everything seems normal. Radio kicks on blasting, windows and locks function correctly, dome lights come on and it beeps just like it should.

 

[PrimerPLus]

How are the actual leads going to the terminals? Not loose, no wires hanging out?
Click Click Click this could be your starting going out. When was the last time you had it changed?

 

[WES_393]

Is it my imagination or is every dsm possessed until you get it built? Lol

No, they're still possessed even after you build them.

But seriously, if the car runs fine when it decides to start then I would seriously suspect the battery or alternator. As the temperature drops so does the power output of the battery. While a perfectly healthy charging system could handle that extra stress, an older system could be too weak at those temps. So you may have enough juice to crank the engine, but there's not enough left over to run the ignition system, fuel pump, fuel injectors, etc. There's only 2 reasons why the charging system would be too weak:

1. The alternator isn't able to keep the battery full, so the battery is already low on power even on a hot summer day.

2. The battery can't hold a charge or isn't capable of giving out enough power. Either way it's a weak battery that needs to be replaced.

I would suggest taking the car down to your local parts store (once it starts) and having the charging system tested. They have a computer that hooks up to the battery while the engine is running to tell how well the battery and alternator are working. That should tell you which one (if either) is causing the problem.

 

[talonxgirl]

The terminals are brand new. They were just put on a year ago. Everything is stock so far. As far as I know, the starter's the original from the factory. The car did have problems starting the first couple weeks I had it. I had to develope a trick to get it to start. I'd jiggle the key in the switch a couple times and it started every time. After those first couple weeks, it started up every time without me having to trick it. It never gave me problems since until now.

Is it normal for the car to fie when you disconnect a terminal while it's running? That's something this car's always done even with a new battery.

 

[PrimerPLus]

If by fie you mean die then no. That's a sign of bad alternator.

 

[talonxgirl]

Oops. Yes I meant die. Stupid smartphones and their pathetic keyboards. But so far from what I'm hearing, I'll try getting it up to Autozone as soon as I can. If it's not a battery or alternator problem, at least I can eliminate those.

 

[kleenf4i]

disconnect the - terminal while running and if it stalls. This is a bad alternator. No doubt about it. replace the alternator. Again, dont unhook the +. unhook the -, if it dies, bad alternator. I repeated it because some friends of mine would unhook the+ wich will kill the car no matter what. .

 

[talonxgirl]

I'll try that test tomorrow if it keeps up this pattern.

 

[kleenf4i]

cool. report back let us know if it was solved.

 

[talonxgirl]

Will do. Thanks for the tips.

 

[DSM1G90]

disconnect the - terminal while running and if it stalls. This is a bad alternator.

This user MUST love to replace alternators then, for doing this trick kills the regulator in the alternator.

DON't DO THIS PROCEDURE !!!

Alternators only keeps the battery topped off-it doesn't run the system!

The battery runs the system!

Alternators are not designed as such to run the entire system.

You disconnect the terminal from the battery while it is running and it puts the full load on the alternator to run the system. The regulator can't handle the sudden current usage and blows. (This is why, when you got a tired battery, you'd better get it replaced pronto because the alternator has to try to keep the battery charged all the time and eventually blows the regulator in the alternator.)

(WHY do people do this horrible and foolish trick outside of not knowing what the hell they are doing..)

Bet you either need the selenoid contacts replaced in the starter, or you simply got a loose connecton on the battery. Are the new connectors metal clean and bright and rock solid attached to the battery? Are the cables attached to the connectors also all metal clean, copper shining and bright and tightly secure to the terminals?

 

[kleenf4i]

Dude, not to fight, but no, I dont like to replace alternators. Furthermore, if you do that test and it fails, the alternator is bad, end of story. Its a test! dont drive around like that, sheesh.You dont have to like hearing it from me, but its true. I dont know how long you have been working on cars, and it doesnt matter, because anyone with elementary experiance will vouch for this test. Agin its an at home way to test the alternator. if you want to buy a 1,000$ accurate machine then we have a different story. Use my Autel scanner(2,000$) and then we will defiantly see whats wrong. Im tired of people knocking home test. Theyre accurate, and if you dont think so, then simply disagree. But dont hate on something becuse of hear-say. It is an accurate home test and theres no reason not to do it. If really doubtfull, take it off, go to the parts store and have it tested. I say this because theyre test machines are horriable.Really an acutron to pull codes. BIG DEAL, you cannot see what the values of any engine function is. There are things I dont know, but i do know this test has proven itself in the the 13 years i have been working on cars.

(WHY do people do this horrible and foolish trick outside of not knowing what the hell they are doing..)

QUOTE]

becuse your helping someone over the internet. Does she/he have have an Autel scanner? I doubt it. so shut up, and stop being a dick.

 

[95talongirl]

As mentioned, sounds like either a dead cell in the battery; which can cause some intermittent issues, or the alternator.

As to comment on the alternator test... that is an old trick and works fine on pre-computer controlled cars. It is not recommended on newer cars with these electronics. It *can* damage things, as it will force the full load out of the alternator since the battery acts as a buffer in the system.

You can easily check an alternator's output with a voltmeter; no need for high-dollar equipment. Voltage range you're looking for on the voltmeter: 12 to 12.5 on battery with car off. 13.9-14.5 with the car running.

 

[kleenf4i]

anything OBD 3 I would be worried about damage. However this is not OBD3.

 

[DSM1G90]

...but you do have an ECU - That's electronic enough.

Remember, it's just a computer running on very little current and just one extra volt or amp can knock out the drivers in that unit very easily. I knocked out my ECU when I accidently had a sensor connector touch the block and the current within that connector head to direct ground-doesn't take much since I didn't undo the negative on the battery before playing with sensors. That was a $300.00 mistake that I'll never do again.

Sorry for being a bit harsh, but been working on vehicles for over many moons (back with carburetors, 426Hemi V8's, Chev 327's, coils, points and distributers and none of this electronic junk we have now...), took auto mechanics in HS along with college, thus seen all sorts of tricks and gadgets that "Saturday Mechanics" do .. but with all of my experience (good and bad), I've learned how to "play ball" the right way so I don't destroy my vehicles, and importantly enough .. someone elses vehicles - why I made the sudden comment. Thing is-if the owner of the vehicle you gave that info to did do this trick and it destroyed the electronics, who is going to get the serious blame? Have to think on this a bit.

Please accept my apologies for I just cringe on what would happen if something went wrong.

-DSM

 

[talonxgirl]

Well I didn't do the test, but the terminals were replaced and glued onto the battery with Loctite about a year ago because they kept coming loose and falling off while I was driving it. It never damaged anything though. Just left me stranded on the highway.

 

[Cdc1221]

Thats a no no. Loctite will hinder the battery connection

 

[talonxgirl]

Oh. Well that might be my problem then. Lol. But I can't remember if i had put it on the actual terminals or just on the bolts. I think it was just on the bolts.

 

[Cdc1221]

The bolts wont hurt, other than getting them off later . But probably wouldnt hurt to clean the terminals off. And definitely check voltage with a multimeter. Should be a hair above 12v engine off, and about 14.5v engine running.

 

[kleenf4i]

...

Please accept my apologies for I just cringe on what would happen if something went wrong.

-DSM

no worries. I understand where your ccoming from, and seems we have the same background. Like I said before, I have never had an issue with it.Also, Most people on the forums dont have voltmeters and the like. It seemed as though this post was from someone in a real bad situation and just needed help. For the future ill say the "right" way to do it and then a "gamble" way to do it.

 

[undefined0000]

The bolts wont hurt, other than getting them off later . But probably wouldnt hurt to clean the terminals off. And definitely check voltage with a multimeter. Should be a hair above 12v engine off, and about 14.5v engine running.

I just have to ask, 14.5v? Are the 2g alts different? I have yet to see higher than 13.7 on the 1gs I've been around. Crappy alts.

If you're diagnosing for a dead cell. 12.6v is 100% charge.

 

[Cdc1221]

I just have to ask, 14.5v? Are the 2g alts different? I have yet to see higher than 13.7 on the 1gs I've been around. Crappy alts.

If you're diagnosing for a dead cell. 12.6v is 100% charge.

Thats coming from my dealings with most other vehicles. Ive never had to test either of mine as ive yet to have a charging issues. I am having a draw issue with my gst, but until i get a new battery, im writing that off as a weak battery with cold weather coming on

 

[talonxgirl]

If you're diagnosing for a dead cell. 12.6v is 100% charge.

Well I got it to a shop today and that's exactly what it was running. But it tested as "marginal" so it could be the battery. But they think it's more than likely the starter, which sucks cause that's not going to be a fun fix.

They're having me bring it back next week to run a full diagnosis.