Competition Stage 5 Clutch - Thumb Up or Thumb Down

[Boug]

DSM family...

I am contemplating purchasing a used Fidanza flywheel and a Competition Stage 5 clutch (6-puck) for my 1G Talon AWD 6-bolt. To me, the price is pretty good considering that it would cost me roughly $545 before taxes. I am satisfied with the Fidanza flywheel but I have concerns about the clutch. I only want to buy one clutch and one clutch only. I recently purchased the FP 3052 and will be tuned on E85 with a goal of 450-500whp. According to the MAPerformance portal, it states the following about the Competition Stage 5 Clutch: This assembly, available with a double spring, six rivet carriage is good for ease of gear transition with higher horsepower. This disc complimented by a performance pressure plate provides 300% increase in torque capacity. 300 mile break-in recommended with this set-up.

I have done a search for "all threads" that discusses the Competition Stage 5 clutch but could only find discussions on the Stage 4. I am obviously interested from those of you with firsthand knowledge of this turbo and the ups and downs you have experienced. For those of you opposed to this clutch, please provide a suitable replacement. Thanks.

 

[gofer]

Its not the horsepower that burns up your clutch its the torque. With that being said, if your torque goals are 400-450ft/lbs then running a "stage 5" pressure plate (2900) and the 6-puck clutch will hold that power. You must get the 6 puck clutch with that amount of torque though because you'll burn up a street disk.

I learned something from a good friend who is also one of the RRE DSM guru's who works with R&D of clutches from ACT, Exedy, Comp., etc. Early December my car was a used for research/development of the "stage 4" Competition clutch/street disk product that was designed and rated to hold 375 ft/lbs torque. After getting the Comp clutch setup installed we took it for a few WOT pulls and the street disk couldn't hold the torque my car was making which seemed strange to me since my original setup was a ACT 2600 (Comp clutch stage 4 equivalent) and the street disk, the difference was the ACT setup was holding the power but the Comp Clutch was not. He told me though that ACT rates and advertises their clutches for 70% of what the clutch can actually hold, where as Competition Clutch might advertise what its MAX actually is. Something to keep in mind when your trying to save a few bucks here and there shopping for a clutch...

 

[Boug]

It is not the horsepower that burns up your clutch it is the torque. With that being said, if your torque goals are 400-450ft/lbs then running a "stage 5" pressure plate (2900) and the 6-puck clutch will hold that power. You must get the 6 puck clutch with that amount of torque though because you'll burn up a street disk. He told me though that ACT rates and advertises their clutches for 70% of what the clutch can actually hold, where as Competition Clutch might advertise what its MAX actually is.

Awesome. Thank you. I am sure that the clutch is a 6-puck. I can send you a few pictures of you would like just for my added comfort level. So I am good in the flywheel department, right? That is pretty alarming about what ACT is suspected of doing. I am sure that the torque I will make will be somewhere in that range. I really appreciate your feedback and I feel comfortable thus far with the purchase.

I figured that while I was at it, that I would post a few pictures for you fellahs to weigh-in on with your thoughts.

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[gofer]

After looking at your pictures I'm pretty sure thats the CC stage 4 kit, the stage 5 is a 4 puck clutch and not a 6 puck like you have pictured above.
I think I confused you a bit in my explanation so let me try to clear things up on the way each company, ACT and CC, advertise how much torque their kits can hold. I'll compare the CC stage 4 kit with the ACT 2900/6-puck kit and how each is advertised, I pulled the numbers directly from the manufacturer's websites so its 100% accurate.

- ACT 2900/sprung 6 puck is rated to hold 595 ft/lbs of torque.
- CC stage 4/sprung 6 puck is rated to hold 250% more torque than stock. Stock torque is 203 ft/lbs so a 250% increase would be 505 ft/lbs of torque.​

Just by looking at the numbers you assume that the ACT kit holds 90 more ft/lbs of torque than the CC kit but thats not true. ACT actually rates their clutches for 70% of what they can actually hold whereas CC advertises it at 100%. So the ACT 2900/sprung 6 puck can actually take upwards of around 850 ft/lbs where the CC stage 4/sprung 6 puck is done at 505 ft/lbs.

The CC might look a little better on the checking account but the bottom line is you get what you pay for. The Stage 4/6-puck should hold what your expected torque numbers however, that clutch will be at its limits. Spend the extra cash on the ACT 2900/6-puck and you've got plenty of room to grow, save some money running the CC stage 4/6-puck and your playing with fire.

 

[TSi Kid]

Why is it that you want to go with the light weight flywheel instead of staying with a stock one? I don't remember asking this the last time I saw you, but is this going to be you main means of transportation?

Also who are you buying this from? It's a local seller correct?

 

[gofer]

I forgot to mention the flywheel! The Fidanza flywheel is one of the best but it is very light and you'll find yourself at redline a lot faster. For drag racing setups I'd say put it on but if you AutoX or Road Race the car its almost too light because of how fast the engine will rev. If you do plan on AutoX the car I'd suggest getting a ACT Chromoly flywheel since it is still lighter than stock but won't rev the engine out as fast since its heavier than the Fidanza.

 

[Boug]

I'll compare the CC stage 4 kit with the ACT 2900/6-puck kit and how each is advertised. I pulled the numbers directly from the manufacturer's websites so its 100% accurate. So the ACT 2900/sprung 6 puck can actually take upwards of around 850 ft/lbs where the CC stage 4/sprung 6 puck is done at 505 ft/lbs.

505ft-lbs. is plenty room. I have not seen a FP 3052 make nearly that much torque on a 2.0L. I will be more than happy with 450wtq.

I don't remember asking this the last time I saw you, but is this going to be you main means of transportation?

No, the 1G is not my main mode of transportation. I have a stock WRX that I just gas and go when needed.

The Fidanza flywheel is one of the best but it is very light and you'll find yourself at redline a lot faster. For drag racing setups I'd say put it on but if you AutoX or Road Race the car its almost too light because of how fast the engine will rev. If you do plan on AutoX the car I'd suggest getting a ACT Chromoly flywheel since it is still lighter than stock but won't rev the engine out as fast since its heavier than the Fidanza.

I cannot see the logic by NOT wanting a fast revving engine. Why would anyone want a slow revving engine. This does not make sense to me.

 

[gofer]

Your still not getting what I'm trying to say about the CC man, haha. Lets say your expecting 450ft/lbs tq and your trying to decide between the ACT 2900 or the CC stage 4 both with the 6-puck clutch.

-CC stage 4 is rated AT 505 ft/lbs of torque but thats its MAX torque rating.
-ACT 2900 is rated AT 595 ft/lbs of torque but thats NOT its max because its only 70% of what it can actually hold, 850 ft/lbs.​

So if your expecting 450 ft/lbs of torque this is how it breaks down...
If you run the CC stage 4 setup you'll be at nearly 90% of what the clutch can actually hold. If you run the ACT 2900 setup you'll be right around 50% of what the clutch can handle if your setup is in the 450 ft/lbs window.
Basically I'm trying to tell you is that the CC will work but it will be hating its life and won't last so spend the extra money...

On a drag strip you'd want it to rev through the RPM's as fast as possible but AutoX'ing and Road Racing thats not necessarily the case. Depending on your driving style or the track your on sometimes you'll stay in the same gear going WOT and then letting off getting into a corner. If your engine wraps up too quickly you'll have to shift into the next gear possibly slowing you down.

 

[Boug]

Your still not getting what I'm trying to say about the CC man, haha. Lets say your expecting 450ft/lbs tq and your trying to decide between the ACT 2900 or the CC stage 4 both with the 6-puck clutch.

-CC stage 4 is rated AT 505 ft/lbs of torque but thats its MAX torque rating.
-ACT 2900 is rated AT 595 ft/lbs of torque but thats NOT its max because its only 70% of what it can actually hold, 850 ft/lbs.​

So if your expecting 450 ft/lbs of torque this is how it breaks down...
If you run the CC stage 4 setup you'll be at nearly 90% of what the clutch can actually hold. If you run the ACT 2900 setup you'll be right around 50% of what the clutch can handle if your setup is in the 450 ft/lbs window.
Basically I'm trying to tell you is that the CC will work but it will be hating its life and won't last so spend the extra money...

On a drag strip you'd want it to rev through the RPM's as fast as possible but AutoX'ing and Road Racing thats not necessarily the case. Depending on your driving style or the track your on sometimes you'll stay in the same gear going WOT and then letting off getting into a corner. If your engine wraps up too quickly you'll have to shift into the next gear possibly slowing you down.

I will not get into the various environments a car can be driven in order to stay on topic. Break...

I fully understand what you are saying about the torque rating.

 

[gofer]

Alrighty, sounds good.

 

[Boug]

Alrighty, sounds good.

I cannot wait until I get the car tuned.

 

[donniekak]

505ft-lbs. is plenty room. I have not seen a FP 3052 make nearly that much torque on a 2.0L. I will be more than happy with 450wtq.



No, the 1G is not my main mode of transportation. I have a stock WRX that I just gas and go when needed.



I cannot see the logic by NOT wanting a fast revving engine. Why would anyone want a slow revving engine. This does not make sense to me.

A flywheel stores energy, the heavier it is, the more energy it stores. A heavy flywheel will help your 60' time. A light flywheel is for roadracing where you have to blip the throttle to rev match on downshifts.

On topic, the springs are going to pop out of that clutch after a good amount of launching it. I have broken everything you can imagine on these cars, and know the mode of failure for about every drivetrain part.

 

[Boug]

A flywheel stores energy, the heavier it is, the more energy it stores. A heavy flywheel will help your 60' time. A light flywheel is for roadracing where you have to blip the throttle to rev match on downshifts.

On topic, the springs are going to pop out of that clutch after a good amount of launching it. I have broken everything you can imagine on these cars, and know the mode of failure for about every drivetrain part.

So Donnie, are you advocating me getting another clutch and flywheel entirely? Check your PM.

 

[donniekak]

So Donnie, are you advocating me getting another clutch and flywheel entirely? Check your PM.

No, just whenever that disk fails, it will most likely be a spring. Another issue with the lightweight flywheels is the heat from slipping a puck disk on a launch. It's way cheaper to get a stocker resurfaced every time you change disks, than ordering new friction pads. Not that your setup won't work, just explaining what happens. When unsprung hub disks are used, they handle abuse better, but can develop play in between the splines of the input shaft, and hub, from undampened vibration. Bottom line, when you get 450+ ft/lbs, combined with launching off a studderbox, be prepared for breakage, it will happen.
The strongest setup is, late 91- early 92 gearset, welded center diff, 4-bolt lsd rear end.

 

[Boug]

No, just whenever that disk fails, it will most likely be a spring. Another issue with the lightweight flywheels is the heat from slipping a puck disk on a launch. It's way cheaper to get a stocker resurfaced every time you change disks, than ordering new friction pads. Not that your setup won't work, just explaining what happens. When unsprung hub disks are used, they handle abuse better, but can develop play in between the splines of the input shaft, and hub, from undampened vibration. Bottom line, when you get 450+ ft/lbs, combined with launching off a studderbox, be prepared for breakage, it will happen.
The strongest setup is, late 91- early 92 gearset, welded center diff, 4-bolt lsd rear end.

Understood. And I plan on getting the 4-bolt rear end and welded center differential.