Coil on Plug, Pro's vs Cons

[bewstin]

Alright, I've read about 4 posts now that have talked about COP setups. It seems to be a very biased subject in terms of whether or not it is an upgrade.
I'm not going to lie, I love the way this setup looks, and always have. Until i did research on here about it, i always thought it was a much better setup then the stock coil's and wires. Apparently a lot of seasoned DSMers say that its a downgrade from the stock ignition system without a ignition booster. Then there's a ton of people that say how awesome it is and how they've never had problems with it.

All in all I would really love to get a COP setup for my car. My link comes in in 1 week, and once my FIC 1200's, 255, and AFPR get here, I'm going to schedule a day for my tune. I will be shooting for at LEAST 370HP but would really like to make over 400 (dunno if the stock cams will get me there). Should I just stick with the stock ignition setup, or will i be safe with COP???

 

[bastarddsm]

Your not going to significantly improve the output without a CDI, voltage booster, or increasing the dwell time. There's only so much you can do with 12v and short dwell times.

Maybe if you found the magic coils, there might be more power to be had. But the standard grab shit from the junkyard approach, no way in hell.

But like I said in the beginning. Your not gaining power from the extra spark energy. And you need sharp voltage rises to combat "spark blowout", not energy.

I love it when people regurgitate ohms law from wikipedia and think they are Charles-Augustin de Coulomb...a lesson in ohms law? Really? V = IR, wow...my physics professor said it best - "this course can be summed up into five equations"

if you knew that, then it would be obvious that cop's suck, and short plug wires won't help......

 

[c2ypt1c]

if you knew that, then it would be obvious that cop's suck, and short plug wires won't help......

If I knew what? Ohms law? News flash - cop's suck and short plug wires won't help......

 

[Calan]

I love it when people regurgitate ohms law from wikipedia...

Well I learned it about 20 years before Wikipedia existed, but I toss it around as often as possible since it's about all I can remember when it comes to things that can shock me. Thirty years of beer drinking and career changes takes it's toll.

 

[Jon91TSi]

My COP setup hasen't given me any problems. The car has been run as high as 39 psi with BR7's gapped at .26 on E90. I've never had spark blow out, never had a hickup, etc. These are also used 300m coils from the junkyard so I really don't know the mileage on them.

 

[WES_393]

My COP setup hasen't given me any problems. The car has been run as high as 39 psi with BR7's gapped at .26 on E90. I've never had spark blow out, never had a hickup, etc. These are also used 300m coils from the junkyard so I really don't know the mileage on them.

On the contrary, my stock ignition with NGK wires, BPR7's gapped .25, and 27psi on E85 have also handled very well. Never so much as a misfire, even past redline. I do plan swapping in non-projected plugs for better idle/cruise, but otherwise the stock ignition system has worked great.

I don't think COP is necessarily bad compared to stock coils/wires, but I think the point trying to be made here is that they aren't really an improvement.

 

[Jon91TSi]

On the contrary, my stock ignition with NGK wires, BPR7's gapped .25, and 27psi on E85 have also handled very well. Never so much as a misfire, even past redline. I do plan swapping in non-projected plugs for better idle/cruise, but otherwise the stock ignition system has worked great.

I don't think COP is necessarily bad compared to stock coils/wires, but I think the point trying to be made here is that they aren't really an improvement.

12 psi is quite a bit more, especially when you have the cylinder pressure that you have at 39#, even with a very slightly larger gap. I run the car out to 9150 where my rev limiter is set.

I really wouldn't consider it an upgrade either. I was just trying to discredit the point that a COP setup can't be just as good as an OEM ignition. My main reason for the swap was to clean up the wiring since im running a sheet metal intake and didn't want to have a coil pack mounted under the manifold or in some other awkward place.

I'll add this as well so my post stays on topic..

Pros: cleans up wiring and eliminates the coil pack that is mounted in the intake manifold
Eliminates the need for plug wires
Looks much cleaner

Cons: Need to make the setup, or buy one pre-made
Need to remove the coil plate to get at one plug
Time consuming to change plugs (if you change them often)
Need a CDI box for cars running lots of gap and lots of boost

 

[Calan]

I don't think COP is necessarily bad compared to stock coils/wires, but I think the point trying to be made here is that they aren't really an improvement.

Pretty much sums it up, given the cost and CDI headaches.

BTW - I run a COP setup and it works fantastic...when it works.

 

[Ludachris]

Pros: cleans up wiring and eliminates the coil pack that is mounted in the intake manifold
Eliminates the need for plug wires
Looks much cleaner

That's subjective. The spark plug cover does a good job of making things look clean by hiding the plug wires. I think people like it because it looks a little more modern (and different from what they have), not necessarily cleaner, as you still have wires running to the coils.

Cons: Need to make the setup, or buy one pre-made
Need to remove the coil plate to get at one plug
Time consuming to change plugs (if you change them often)
Need a CDI box for cars running lots of gap and lots of boost

And believe me, it can be a pain sometimes.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I bought a COP setup for the same reason mentioned by Jon91TSI. I got a SMIM and had no where to put the coil pack other than to let it just sit on the manifold...and scratch it up. I had the funds so I paid for a Sparktech setup.

 

[foxracing4500]

just backing up Calan with his Ecuflash comment, but count me in against COP

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[finesse49ers]

I guess I'll chime in and say I'm running a COP system (self made using Chrysler 300 coils) with no CDI box and haven't had any problems. Also tuning with ECUFlash on an EVO VIII ECU.

 

[bastarddsm]

just backing up Calan with his Ecuflash comment, but count me in against COP

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Lol, I don't think anyone doubted that, but thanks for the image.

The bummer is that very few dsm's have this ability without an ecu swap.

 

[mikemustbebored]

If the 4g63 had a cap&rotor setup, a coil on plug upgrade would be more appealing... As is, and from reading everyone's input, the $ spent to go COP could be used on another project that would yield a higher payout performance-wise.

 

[paularenss]

just bought my c.o.p but now i might regret it but i can always get my money back

 

[mysticj]

Thats basically a stock system......Just more compact.

Less wires, no more tracking down 2G transistors, better engine response, easily available coils, stock plug wires are 7mm vs 5mm for the Evo coils(NGK are also available)

this setup cost me less than $15

 

[dsm-dad]

Beating a old tired, possibly dead horse here but nobody said how much of a upgrade a cop setup is with cdi. I am buying both and was curious as to the gains to be had.

 

[keltalon]

Beating a old tired, possibly dead horse here but nobody said how much of a upgrade a cop setup is with cdi. I am buying both and was curious as to the gains to be had.

Its not! The cop spark dwell time is off from the oem coil pack this makes it a head ache the only way it will be an upgrade is if you are tuning with AEM in which you have the ability to adjust the dwell time.

 

[dsm-dad]

Ive come to the conclusion of just running a dynatex arc2 with stock ignition, well upgraded wires with stock coils

 

[keltalon]

Ive come to the conclusion of just running a dynatex arc2 with stock ignition, well upgraded wires with stock coils

I ran one briefly for some reason it just didn't last long. The stock ignition is working just fine for me.

 

[dsm-dad]

I have a aluminum rod motor with full bolt on's i really want the most spark i can get. Trying to find a suitable replacement for this hx40 so i can make the power I'm looking for. But for break-in this hx40 in a .63ar t3 should be ok

 

[keltalon]

I have a aluminum rod motor with full bolt on's i really want the most spark i can get. Trying to find a suitable replacement for this hx40 so i can make the power I'm looking for. But for break-in this hx40 in a .63ar t3 should be ok

I have run up to 44psi 800 whp stock ignition. You should be fine unless you plan on more which I no experience above the 800.

 

[Carlz0r]

The only reason to go COP is if you can go full sequential. That's what I've done with an AEM Series 2 EMS and it allows me to do per-cylinder knock control.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I was considering doing a coil on pack but the stock set up is more than most of will ever need.

 

[dsm-dad]

I'm looking at just a dynatek arc2 and stock ignition at this point. But most all of the dsm's I've seen that are running the times I'm looking for are on COP so I'm still kinda confused. I guess until my stock system can no longer keep up I'll keep it

 

[tunermt]

I've been searching around the interwebs for different COP kits, this thread keeps popping up on me and noticed there haven't been any updates for a while. My personal VR4 coils are very tired so i'm doing a COP conversion as the car already has an Infinity ECU so 4 coil outputs ready to go. At this point looks like it will be the R35 COP conversion as I run the R35 coils in a couple other cars and they really do put out one damn hot spark! DSM and EVO 1-3 R35 COP conversion kit

https://brewedmotorsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/4G63_DSM-COP_R35_KIT-coil-on-plug-VE.jpg