Cheap T3 Divided Manifold?

[Ceddy]

I saw this Evo8 Manifold to T3 Divided Adapter Plate on ebay:
T3 divided turbo to EVO VIII manifold adapter flange:eBay Motors (item 120402471721 end time Dec-31-09 17:14:12 PST)

And noticed the DSM and Evo manifold to head flanges are the same.

So would a used Evo Manifold($50) and Adapter Plate($100) allow a cheap divided manifold? (I am unsure if the Evo Manifold will bolt up/fit)

I don't like using an Adapter Plate, but think the only Divided T3 Manifolds available to us are in the $800+ range.

 

[diambo4life]

What's wrong with an open header? I would get a Turbonetics cast and call it a day.

 

[SpeedAddict62]

Ceddy, that is a great idea. I don't know if the Evo manifold would bolt up either, but it would seem if the bolt pattern is the same, you could modify it to fit. Regardless, a twin scroll should improve VE and spool up. Maybe run an Evo manifold with a stock twin scroll Holset turbine housing? Something to think about. Yes, the aftermarket divided manifolds are very expensive. I decided to make my own instead, but it is a lot of work. This would be much easier.

 

[abaum565]

Yes, this is all great and stuff......what about the wastegates. You will need some custom fabbing for that if you are running a divided holset housing - non wastegated version. But that is still cheaper than a tubular divided t3 with dual WG flanges.

 

[big_d]

This was the first thing that came to mind...but the evoX manifold bolted up to this evo1 after switching flanges. Not sure if that's something you'd want to tackle or not.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/323777-1st-twin-scroll-20g-dsm-evo-10-turbo.html

 

[abaum565]

Edited: because I type dumb stuff without reading

So after you weld on 2 WG flanges and add the adapter, I'm not sure I'd put that in my engine bay. But nonetheless, in theory it would work if you are on a budget.

 

[99gst_racer]

So after you chop the head flange off and weld a dsm one on

Re-read post #1.

And noticed the DSM and Evo manifold to head flanges are the same.

Ceddy - Which divided T3 turbo do you plan to use?

 

[big_d]

Haha yeah . Just keeping the thread rolling.

 

[Ceddy]

Ceddy - Which divided T3 turbo do you plan to use?

Not sure on turbo yet, just want to do a divided turbo for my next set up.
Some of Evo turbos are really amazing spool and flow wise with the divided setup.
I would like to try to replicate something like that, instant spool and flow 50+ lb/min.

I still have the T3 Divided 12 cm housing from my Holset, but think I want something smaller. Have to do some more research.

 

[Steve93Talon]

I'd sooner do something like this:

T3 divided to T4 divide custom adapter 3/4 turbo flange:eBay Motors (item 120248401328 end time Jan-06-10 18:50:17 PST)

With this:

Dark Performance T4 Turbo Manilfold (DSM) - Modern Automotive Performance

which will give you larger, equal length runners and a place to put your gate.

 

[dsm-onster]

That would be $540 total for a setup that isn't truely divided. That single WG flange doesnt have a divider through to the WG seat. There will be contamination. 40psi of backpressure or higher during blow down can easily snake through the gate runners with the gate closed to the lower pressure in the adjacent cylinder during overlap.

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I never understood the point of that manifold. It's not truely divided. But so much work was put into pairing 1-4 and 2-3 with equal length

Ceddy's idea would be less than half that after welding the external gate port with a divider or welding two with no divider.

 

[Steve93Talon]

I never understood the point of that manifold. It's not truely divided. But so much work was put into pairing 1-4 and 2-3 with equal length

Ceddy's idea would be less than half that after welding the external gate port with a divider or welding two with no divider.

In an ideal world, a fully divided setup with twin gates would be the best option. But there are alot of other twin scroll manifolds that use a common gate like this one that work fine and still provide a benefit over an equivalent open hotside.

We're running the JMF divided T3 mani with a single 44mm gate on an S362 with the .85 housing with a 2 liter engine, BC280 cams, and a JMF drag SMIM and we see full boost right around 5k. This is right around where other guys with 2.3 setups are seeing the same boost on the .70 open T3 housing, and we're making more power up top as well.

Ceddy's idea is a cool one for a low buck setup, I've considered trying something similar, the problem as others pointed out is the gate. In my experience, welding a gate flange to a cast mani always results in the gate falling off eventually. I think a different way to do it that would work better would be to make an adapter that has the gate flanges built into it like the ATP cast piece for the EVOs. This would add significant cost, though, and I think would drop the turbo too low in a DSM application.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...&Product_Code=ATP-VEVO-008&Category_Code=VEVO

In the end, I think it really comes down to realizing that you've gotta pay to play. To do a divided T3 setup, you need alot of items that add up fast, tacking on the extra few hundred bucks for a quality divided T3 manifold shouldn't be the deal breaker. There are plenty of cheap bolt-on options for people, most of which can be converted to a different hotside later when you want more.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm not talking about using a single gate. Does the JMF manifold bring a divider up to the gate seat? I'm looking and I don't see a single gate manifold from JMF anyway. When did this manifold come out?

The dark performance manifold will be spilling backpressure over during spool (when the gate is closed) instead of directing it to the turbine wheel, which is the purpose of a twinscroll setup. And also will be doing during peak flow if you're maxing out the turbo (wastegate closes again) contaminating the cylinders during overlap and thus killing VE. A simple divider there would keep contamination out at the times when it most needs not to be there.

Considering the price to buy into a twinscroll turbo is very cheap (see holset), I'm tending to think that many of us would like the benefits of twinscroll without a max effort build. I don't think you need such quality flow from a full tubular exhaust manifold to merrit conversion to twinscroll. He's talking about paying $150 for the ability to effectively hang a t3 twinscroll turbo off the motor . . . But I agree that it probably puts the turbo very low. Yet turbos like the typical holset need clearance any way. Lower with the flange direction in the same line as the stock manifold puts you farther from the block too

 

[Steve93Talon]

I'm not talking about using a single gate. Does the JMF manifold bring a divider up to the gate seat? I'm looking and I don't see a single gate manifold from JMF anyway. When did this manifold come out?

We were the first one they made, we requested a single 44mm gate to be used based on Brent's previous divided T4 top-mount setup on his own car. He had done a divider all the way up to the flange. When they finished up our manifold, they had just done a crossover tube and merged them into one before the gate with no divider. At the time, we were not happy about it as we had specifically discussed that they make it divided like Brent's. They no longer offer a single gate option, only twin gates.

We decided to run with it and see how it worked. The car is making more power than we expected it to, even on winter blend E70 fuel. The spool is as good as it was on the old FP35R bolt-on setup with smaller cams and intake plenum. Could we benefit from making it fully divided? Possibly. Are we splitting hairs at this point? Probably.

If anyone were paying $1k for a manifold like this, I'd absolutely recommend doing dual gates or making sure the area is fully divided to the flange on a single gate setup. But for the people looking to do a low-buck setup like this thread suggests, I think that one of the cheaper tubular manifolds is a decent alternative even with it's gate configuration.

As for using the EVO 8-9 mani on a DSM, I'd love to see someone successfully pull it off. It'll bolt right to the head. As I said before, the main thing I'd be leary of is welding the gate flanges to it as I've had bad experiences with gates welded to 2G/EVO manifold in the past.

Another thing to consider is that when you look at a stock manifold, the turbo is offset to the passenger side. This allows clearance for the o2 housing. With the EVO 8-9 mani, the turbo will be offset toward the driver's side, giving you very little room to do an o2/DP, especially if you're retaining power steering and/or alternator.

Believe me, I've been contemplating how to use something like an EVO 8-9 mani on a twin scroll setup on a DSM for awhile, there just always seems to be a stumbling block making it not worthwhile (much like trying to put a whole EVO turbo/mani setup on a DSM).

 

[SpeedAddict62]

Hey dudes,

My manifold came. This thing is seriously brand new, not a rust spot on it. I still can't believe I only paid $55 for it. Got to love Ebay sometimes.

Initial thoughts: I put the manifold on the head, just to see what it would look like. Keep in mind I don't have PS anymore, so that pump isn't in the way. In order to use this manifold, an alternator relocation would be absolutely necessary. There is simply no way that you could fit a turbo between the manifold and the alternator the way it sits, since the Evo manifold moves the turbo towards the driver side. The good news is that it bolts to the DSM (1g) head with no problems AND looks like it will have no clearance issues with a HX35+ size turbo on it. I'm going to definitely run my homemade manifold for a while, but maybe this will make it's way onto the car for testing purposes, as a back up, or a 2nd DSM project? We'll see.

Last but not least, here are pictars!

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[mike96]

I saw this Evo8 Manifold to T3 Divided Adapter Plate on ebay:
T3 divided turbo to EVO VIII manifold adapter flange:eBay Motors (item 120402471721 end time Dec-31-09 17:14:12 PST)

And noticed the DSM and Evo manifold to head flanges are the same.

So would a used Evo Manifold($50) and Adapter Plate($100) allow a cheap divided manifold? (I am unsure if the Evo Manifold will bolt up/fit)

I don't like using an Adapter Plate, but think the only Divided T3 Manifolds available to us are in the $800+ range.

this might also work good for reversing the EVOX turbo for use on our cars. use it in conjunction with something like this... Budget Eclipse Talon T3 T4 exhaust manifold

 

[SpeedAddict62]

That manifold is an open header design. The whole point of this thread is to figure out a way to build a twin scroll manifold for cheap. The later Evo turbos have a unique twin scroll flange that a DSM or T3/T4 flange will not bolt to. On top of that, running a twin scroll turbo on an open header is really pointless because you lose any benefit you would have with the twin scroll.

 

[Streetsweeper21]

Any more infomation on Evo manifold with t3 adapter plate and holset fitment??

 

[Rob10_99]

Hey SpeedAddict, do you have an EVO turbo you can mock that up with or are you piecing this together?

 

[SpeedAddict62]

Sorry to disappoint, but I actually just bought that manifold because it was really cheap and I wanted to see if it would fit, haha. If I find a cheap Evo 8 turbo, I might pick it up too and just hang on to it for a future DSM project. Right now the car has a custom made top-mount divided T3 manifold, I plan to run that one for a while.

 

[Streetsweeper21]

I was wondering if I would be able to use a tubular or stock Evo 8 manifold with this t3 adapter and than slap the Holset on it mmm I doubt though because the turbo looks like it would have to be placed towards the block..
Manifold Adapter,Garrett T3 flanged turbo GT30R EVO8/9: eBay Motors (item 380125574763 end time Nov-10-10 20:35:12 PST)
Or a Dark performance manifold and just cut the pipe that warps around to the wastegate and jus put a waste flange there and block off whole after cutting so I could have two waste gates.....

 

[Jst4Cyl]

Hey dudes,

My manifold came. This thing is seriously brand new, not a rust spot on it. I still can't believe I only paid $55 for it.

Last but not least, here are pictars!

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So, I know I'm digging this up from the grave... My question is, did you ever throw a Holset on it and test fitment?

Unless I'm missing something, stock Evo 8-X manifolds bolt up to the head, are twin scroll, cast, cheap, and plentiful.

Problem foreseen: Moves setup to drivers side (which creates several potential issues with downpipe, power steering pump, and OFH), unknown angle projection compared to stock 1G/2G style, no wastegate provision.

Anyone have a manifold they want to donate?

 

[Jst4Cyl]

After a little more digging it looks like Evo X manifolds are more what most people would choose since it hangs the turbo in the middle rather than offsetting it to the drivers side. The issue is from what I'm reading is that the head flange is different so you're left with cutting off the flange from a 4g63 manifold, cutting off the Evo X manifold, and welding on the 4g63 flange. It may be possible to fix the common Holset clearance issues at this time also.

Still would need wastegate provisioning also though.

Thoughts?