Car still runs bad and here are the codes it throws

[danyz250f]

These are the codes my car throws on my mmcd logger when the car is off but key to the on position. I have done countless boost leak tests and fixed all the leaks and the problem is still there.

Code: 25 baro
21 coolant temp
22 crank angle sensor
23 TDC
13 air temp
14 TPS
15 ISC position

I had to hit read a few times on the logger to get all these codes, not all these codes show up at the same time.

My car doesn't like to boost. It runs OK in vaccume and alittle boost like 3lbs but after that it goes to 15lbs and makes no power at all.

 

[OreoTsi]

How is your ECU?

 

[danyz250f]

Well it doesn't smell like fish that I have noticed. How do I check it.

 

[OreoTsi]

It is behind the dash, between the drivers and passanger side. Its basically behind your radio and down. Take off the carpeted panels on the sides of the console, then theres 2 bolts on each side of the console and then 3 plugs on the bottom of the ECU itself. Then take off the cover, 4 phillips head screws. Check to see if its leaking or corrodied on the circut board anywhere. Those are a lot of codes to have, so I'd think the computer is just going haywire, won't hurt to take a look in there, very common for them to crap out.
Good Luck.

 

[danyz250f]

Ok I took the ecu out and took it completely apart and didnt unplug the ecu for fear of ruining some thing because that is what (apex I) said to take off the neg bat terminal I haven't and I am lazy. But I took the gold covers off front and back and the whole board looks good the caps don't seem to be leaking or any thing.

 

[danyz250f]

Would the mafs do all that.

 

[steve]

Would the mafs do all that.

Not usually. This would be the first time I've seen the ISC code be thrown but the rest together are usually do to damage to the ECU or a wiring problem like a short of the sensor voltage or an open of the sensor ground.

Steve

 

[danyz250f]

Wierd back in the day when my car ran good it would always throw the isc code. I have my ecu out now so it may hopfully reset itself. The first time I unplugged the ecu I did a read again and it didnt throw the barrow code. Then I hit read a bunch more and it came up.

But then I started it and reved it I put my foot to the floor and it reved to like 4k sputtered then proceeded to rev higher. Wierd

So would an ecu out of a 92 tsi awd work in my car, because there is one at the junk yard and also how much should they run.

Would the afc have anything to do with it.

 

[danyz250f]

K bypassed the safc and it did nothin. Does any body know how to initialize the SAFC II so it resets and goes back to its factory settings. So I can rule it out for sure.

 

[danyz250f]

Not usually. This would be the first time I've seen the ISC code be thrown but the rest together are usually do to damage to the ECU or a wiring problem like a short of the sensor voltage or an open of the sensor ground.

Steve

Of what sensor? The mafs? Or any sensor?

 

[steve]

The ECU outputs sensor +5 power and ground. on pins 23 and 24.
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ecu-harness-1G.html
http://simon.chi.il.us/~steve/Auto/DSM/1GDSMWiring.html
Those wires could be damaged somewhere in the car but I really think this is a ECU problem.
You need to have someone check yours and see if it does the same thing for them. I wouldn't put a good ECU in your car until you know what happened. A shour in the cars wiring can damage a good ECU.

Since you say the car was throwing the ISC code before did you check the ISC?

Steve

 

[danyz250f]

I went to the junk yard and got an ecu and it did the same thing. Last night I took it up to red line and it ran good till something went and now it doesnt hardly run at all. It will run kinda under 1.5k but no higher. Man it sure feels like a boost leak. Like when you have a coupler pop off, or forget to plug the mafs in. Could I nor have compression. When you start it, it runs ok then after a bit the idle drops and hardly runs.

 

[steve]

OK, if you swapped ECUs and got exactly the same error codes it's time to stop driving the car and fix the problem.
You will need the wiring diagrams from the factory service manual, a good multimeter, and a lot of beer.

Steve

 

[femmeDSM]

You will need the wiring diagrams from the factory service manual, a good multimeter, and a lot of beer.

That is some of the best advice I've read on here today.

danyz250f, do you have the FSM? I have a feeling you will be an expert at reading wiring diagrams by the time this is solved.

Like Steve said, don't start or drive the car anymore until you can get this narrowed down.

 

[danyz250f]

This is really stupid. Now It hardly runs I cant even drive it to a place I can work on it. I have tested the TPS and the MAS with the haynes manual and used the pins it said to use with the multi tester and the pins they said to use dont do anything. On the tps pins 1 and 3 give me a ohm reading but not 1 ad 4 like the book says. On the mas no pins make continuity in any combination that I could find.

So on minday my maft will be here could I take my intercooler piping off and stick the gm mas on the throttle body and see if it will Run N/A. Thats right, I am that crazy right now. This way I could at least make it to work and work on it inside and not in the mud at home. Or would this be bad on the turbo, I don't see why it would.

My oxygen sensor code is allways on too. Could a really bad oxygen sensor do anything like this. I thought before the oxygen sensor was hot it didn't do anything and the ecu had maps that it could use before the sensor got hot. So if my o2 sensor was bad wouldn't the ecu use its maps and the car would run pretty good still? But the o2 sensor came out of a 90 laser and it had 234000 miles on it and it very well could be the original one from the factory.

I will also atempt a compression test too.

 

[danyz250f]

I just have the haynes manual and I didn't even find an ecu diagram, its probably called something different, other than ecu wiring though.

It felt like I hit a govenor last night it was wierd. Maybe a ic pipe blew off. I don't know how I would have a short I havent done and "wire mods" for a long time. Just a remote start, fuel pump rewire, amp, deck, and SAFC II. But it all worked then got progressivly worse.

My top rad hose was really hard too, like pressurized. This is normal right when it is hot, but I felt it and this was after it sat all night.

Plus may bat, rad, and brake lights are always on, this usually means bad charging. But my car ran when they are all on. My belt is new and tight. So could this contribute, or is my alternator just going bad.

 

[femmeDSM]

OK....You need to STEP AWAY FROM THE VEHICLE. Haha.

Your car is in no condition to be driven, or even started for that matter, until you've figured out what your problems are.

If that means towing it, then you've got to tow it. DO NOT start the car anymore, and DO NOT just throw random parts at it in hopes of creating a temp fix.

Not trying to be harsh, but at this point you are only making the problem worse and creating more headaches for yourself (and everyone else who is helping you out) in the process.

Here's a link to a Tech Article that you might find helpful. It has links to some of the FSM diagrams, etc. that you mentioned. I would recommend ordering a manual on cd from manualcd.com (I believe places like MachV sell these, also).

Unfortunately, at this point, I think you've far surpassed the scope of a Haynes manual

We will need to take this one step at a time.
Get the car to a location where it can be worked on safely, and we'll tackle one thing at a time.
But by all means (and I repeat) PLEASE DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR ANYMORE until you've isolated the problem areas. You are just creating more work for yourself every time you turn that key.

 

[danyz250f]

Well shoot I wish I would have known this before. But I dont have the internet at home so I just check dsmtuners when I am at work/or the gf's house. So this morning I thought I would check the ic pipes one more time to see if couplers came off. Results were negative as usual. So I started the car and i jumps up idles fine for like three seconds then dies. So I was like one way to test gm mafs sensors is to unplug them and see if your car runs better. So I unplugged my mitsu big homoglobular nobularmass of a sensor and guess what the car idles just fine.

The sensor is a unhacked one out of our 90 parts laser. Well when we robbed all the hard goodies (turbo, bov) and ic pipes I just left the sensor under the hood open to the air and the car sat there for the winter. Not good for my understanding, mafs don't like moisture.

So If you guys agree I think it would be logical to test the wires going to the mafs and if they are not cut and grounded, it would be ok to try a new mafs.

Just want to clear something up on how to test the wires, do I put one end of the multi tester in the ecu pin and the other end of the multi tester at the other end of the wire under the hood, say in the mafs plug. So on a mafs pin on the ecu plug to the mafs plug under the hood. And test the continuity (ohms setting on the multi tester).

Hey if you guys ever need a speaker box made, or just help building the things setting up air space, port sizes, and tuning frequencies, I would be glad to help. I know how to do that stuff. PM

Oh yeah I laughed about the beer comment, but I don't think me a 20 year old who hasn't had alot of beer experience would get alot acomplished, drinking and testing wires.

 

[Jackson]

Are you smelling lots of fuel when your car dies? If there is lots there, then your car is flooding with gas because your collant tmeperature sensor may be blown and it thinks its -77 out. If it sends a -77 signal to your ecu, it dumps in hella fuel because of the cold air ( good old pV=nRT) andit will cause flooding of the old engine. gl with your troubles.

 

[16vtawd]

Codes 25 and 13= Maf sensor bad,22 and 23= CAS sensor bad, 21 ECU Coolant temp sensor on the bottom of the themostat housing with 2 prongs is bad if idles drops to like 500 and stalls out and run really rich.Check all of the connection before you go buy any thing.

 

[danyz250f]

Mafs sensor was bad. I took it out an threw the S.O.B on the floor and and shattered the piss out of it.

I put the gm sensor in and the maft, I left the dials all at 0 andthe car runs good now. In the instructions I couldn't see if I need to compensate for the stock injectors.

Now is what is wierd is, it doesn't boost at all just to 0 lbs and stops. So I guess I have a huge boost leak. It is set up as a blow threw.

And my altenator is bad too and in the process of being rebuilt. The rectifier was bad. I regulates voltage, I guess.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Damn it I was going to tell you your MAF is bad. I had the exact same problem, the stupid shop couldn't even figure it out and wanted $2000 for diagnostics eventhough they didn't fix the problem, after telling them I was going to sue them they gave me back my car free of charge (I even brought out the consumers protection act book with automotive repairs). Anyway, after a few tests at home, I decided to swap out the MAF and wala! It worked great. Anyway a bad MAF would act like a major boost leak or the car wouldn't run at all depending how bad it is.

To your second problem with the MAFT, I would do a boost leak test and spray some soapy water on the new connections you made, it will save you a ton of time in diagnosing the problem. Let us know your boost leak results and update us.

 

[SlowChild3]

I've got Codes: 25 baro, 21 coolant temp, 13 air temp

Major power loss under boost. Never had problem befor. If my MAFS is bad why don't it throw the mafs code? My ecu doesn't smell strong just smells like an electrical board. Bah!

 

[Ultimatedsm]

SlowChild, it is your maf, Baro and Air temp is i your MAF so replace it.

 

[SlowChild3]

Ok, so I got the ohm meter out and check my sensor voltage coming from the ecu, I didn't get anything. I check my coolant temp sensor, nothing. I checked my maf, nothing. Well I took my ecu out and looked at it. One cap has busted open small leakage. So what I think has happend is my board went bad and then fried my sensors. Great stuff! Or maybe I just got a short some where. Awww, this is depressing almost makes me want to abandon the dsm project.