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car starts without clutch. Yup you read that right.

Posted by Dirty Dans dsm, Jun 11, 2019

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  1. Dirty Dans dsm

    Dirty Dans dsm Probationary Member

    21
    1
    Joined Feb 23, 2019
    Olathe, Kansas
    So I recently pulled the motor and transmission out of my 95 eagle talon tsi fwd, and I got the motor and the transmission back together got everything redone.. and now I have an issue, at first I noticed my wheels didn’t lock up while in first gear, while I was standing on the wheel to get a better angle under the hood, and then I went to turn it on and it cranked but wouldn’t fire up, then noticed I could shift through the gears without my clutch while the car was off, and then I finally did get it fired up and I let the clutch out while in first gear to stall it and make sure the clutch was working properly.. and uhh.. well it kept running. And then I tried starting it without the clutch at all. And it started. I don’t know if somehow I messed up the clutch, or if it’s a flywheel issue? I have no idea I’m dumbfounded to say the least. But uhh yea.. first time pulling a motor and I got everything hooked up but I screwed up somewhere along the way of hooking the tranny up. Please help any information on what could be wrong would be much appreciated.
     
  2. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    3,888
    1,490
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Did you forget the clutch disk? Have to ask....
     

    252  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 348  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  17

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
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  3. Dirty Dans dsm

    Dirty Dans dsm Probationary Member

    21
    1
    Joined Feb 23, 2019
    Olathe, Kansas
    Nope, clutch and flywheel are both in the car. I put clutch fluid in and bled it as well
     
  4. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Supporting VIP

    2,269
    595
    Joined Jan 5, 2012
    Rathdrum, Idaho
    ^^
    That, or is the clutch fork broken, step height incorrect, clutch pedal assembly adjusted correctly?

    Other than that the only thing I can think of is a busted transmission, in the center diff or viscous coupler, that will stop power from going to the wheels and the clutch is still working perfectly.
     

    155  8

    1987 Toyota Pickup/Hilux
    awd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 659  7

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 860  1

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 2K  10

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  5. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    3,888
    1,490
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    So if I get this correct, the car starts but doesn't move, as if the clutch were pushed in? Or is it engaged in any gear anytime? Anytime the flywheel is spinning it is spinning the input shaft on the transmission....or should be.
     

    252  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 348  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  17

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  6. Dirty Dans dsm

    Dirty Dans dsm Probationary Member

    21
    1
    Joined Feb 23, 2019
    Olathe, Kansas
    So I just started it and when I did so I made it so I didn’t start it all the way and I could hear something turning after I put the key back to the on position I couldn’t tell if it was the crank or not but I think my flywheel was spinning like the clutch was pressed.
     
  7. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    3,888
    1,490
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Dan, I see your comment on not knowing how to post a picture. Sometimes you have to reduce the size of the picture. I take a picture then email it to myself, which prompts me if I want to resize it, and I resize it to 30% then send it. When I receive it, it is small enough to post with the "Add Photos/Files" button. Save it in a place where you know where it is at (your desktop is handy), then look for it after you have hit the Add Photos/Files button and it will load up.
    I was going to ask if you had a picture or a short clip video of the odd deal that is going on so we could all get a better idea. I am scratching my head as to what in the world the problem is. I am betting it is something simple that was overlooked. Does the pedal feel "normal" or not?
     

    252  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 348  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  17

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  8. Dirty Dans dsm

    Dirty Dans dsm Probationary Member

    21
    1
    Joined Feb 23, 2019
    Olathe, Kansas
    Yes pedal feels normal, but there’s this little black plug I found broken off if you look up 95 eagle talon tsi transmission, and get a picture by the back most motor mount, there is this little black plug thing sticking up, when my friend helped me with the motor that’s when I went outside and after he left I found it on the floor.
     
  9. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

    5,022
    924
    Joined Nov 19, 2011
    oklahoma city, Oklahoma
    You said clutch is there. Both pieces? Pressure plate and more importantly the disc.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  10. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    575
    69
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Kenosha, Wisconsin
    I am having trouble understanding this... Isn't the purpose of the clutch to decouple the engine and transmission? Does the pressure plate drive the disk (and thus the input shaft) when the clutch pedal is depressed (pressure plate released)?

    I feel like you couldn't put your car in gear without it moving if the above is true.

    Please don't take my questions to be an attack, I simply see an opportunity to possibly learn something new.

    As for the OP, the car will start without pressing in the clutch if the clutch switch is disabled. If the car sees the electrical signal that the clutch is depressed, it does not care if it actually is or not.

    My best guess at this point is no disc.
     

    Street Build 6K  17

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  11. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    3,888
    1,490
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    No problem, I am taking it that the car will start, in gear, but not move. YES the PP couples the transmission to the engine via the clutch disk so when you press in on the pedal it uncouples.
    Maybe I am over thinking it but......
    Refer to post #2 :ohdamn: and I hope I'm WRONG. LOL
     

    252  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 348  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 3K  17

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM

    4K  24

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.612 @ 107.760 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  12. Dirty Dans dsm

    Dirty Dans dsm Probationary Member

    21
    1
    Joined Feb 23, 2019
    Olathe, Kansas
    Yes both are still there.
     
  13. Dirty Dans dsm

    Dirty Dans dsm Probationary Member

    21
    1
    Joined Feb 23, 2019
    Olathe, Kansas
    You might be onto something I was thinking along the lines of it being a sensor of some sort
     
  14. Hickory-NC-2Ggsx

    Hickory-NC-2Ggsx Proven Member

    67
    8
    Joined Dec 27, 2018
    Lincolnton, North Carolina
    Okay i have an idea. Jack the front of it up and put the car in gear then start it with out pressing the clutch.
     

    Street Build 316  1

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  15. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Supporting VIP

    2,269
    595
    Joined Jan 5, 2012
    Rathdrum, Idaho
    Or put it on jack stands, put it in gear and turn the tires by hand to see if the engine bumps back compression.

    Was the transmission and everything else in working order before you pulled it?
     

    155  8

    1987 Toyota Pickup/Hilux
    awd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 659  7

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 860  1

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 2K  10

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  16. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

    1,560
    419
    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    I'm wondering if you have an axle that is not all the way back in the transmission, as far as starting without pushing in the clutch, someone might have pulled the clutch switch, this is common, the sensor in the back that you broke is the speedometer sensor, it wont stop the car from working.
     

    Drag Race Build 2K  16

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  17. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    575
    69
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Kenosha, Wisconsin
    OP, can you push the car forward while the transmission is in reverse (engine off, not pushing the clutch in)?

    Did you change the flywheel, clutch disk, or pressure plate? What parts did you use? Where did you buy them?

    How are are you confirming the clutch disk is, in fact, installed?
     

    Street Build 6K  17

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  18. Dirty Dans dsm

    Dirty Dans dsm Probationary Member

    21
    1
    Joined Feb 23, 2019
    Olathe, Kansas
    Because I didn’t swap anything out related to the transmission, I actually just put everything back together essentially. But where is the clutch switch located because that’s what I was thinking. I feel like it is a sensor of some sort because I tried starting it in first with no clutch and it started to crawl forward and I pushed the clutch and it relived pressure, because I had the brake on since I didn’t wanna hit anything.
     

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