Cant set igintion timing

[bmwracing_6]

Ok i tried to set my igintion timing so i ground the wire on the fire as needed then used the light and it was about 1 inch past the last mark on the timing cover which would be about 30 degrees advanced so i turned the CAS and got it to about ~15 advanced but the CAS wont go any further cause i wanted to set it to ~5 degrees. And also when i took off the wire that i grounded the connector with... the settings went to the exact same place it was to begin with(~30 degrees). Why is that and what do i do to make this work right. My car is extremely slow by the way but i think is cause of the timing.

Thanks Justin

 

[bmwracing_6]

Can anyone help? I have searched over and over but the people who had my problems never posted there fix or they stopped posting.

Thanks Justin

 

[Talesin]

1) Make sure your datalogger cable (if any) is unplugged before starting the car. Some will ground a pin on the ODBI plug, and grounding both that and the connector on the firewall puts it into BISS adjust mode instead of timing set.
2) Make sure the connector on the firewall is the right one, and make sure it's grounded securely. There is a center 'sprue' of plastic, and a single small pin to one side. The pin is the actual thing you need to ground, the sprue bit is just plastic. You can do this while the car is running, and the tone of the engine will change noticeably when it's grounded properly.
3) When timing/BISS adjust is NOT grounded, the ECU will advance timing and alter throttle at idle to assist in fuel conservation and shoot for predefined values. You can get some pretty crazy advance just free-revving neutral.. think the highest I saw (on my logger) was almost 40 degrees, when I was checking for an airflow problem. This is normal.

Again, make SURE that it's actually in timing adjust mode, and not BISS adjust. What sounds like what may be happening.
Additionally, you may want to double-check that the CAS is inserted right way 'round into the intake cam end... if it's 180 off, it could cause some very odd running (if it runs at all).

 

[bmwracing_6]

I did ground that connector only by the battery and it is the right one and no i do not have a logger plugged in but i will check the CAS and spin in 180 degrees to see what happens.

Thanks,
Justin

 

[bling5tatus]

Please let us know, because I'd like to hear that that is what was wrong and it fixed the issue.

 

[bmwracing_6]

Well i turned the CAS 180 degrees and nothing changed it just does the same thing. I checked it with the timing light and it was still about 15 degrees advanced and when i ungrounded the wire it went to back where it was to about 30 degrees advanced. Is there any more suggestions?


Thanks Justin

 

[BrokenTsi]

You're not doing something right. How can you read 30 degrees of timing with the pin grounded?

When you ground it, the timing mark stops jumping around and you can notice a change in how the engine runs. Make sure you're grounding it on the pin, and not the plastic tab inside of the connector.

 

[bmwracing_6]

I am grounding the the metal pin and the engine does sound different when i ground it but when i try to change the timing i can only get it to 15 degrees advance and not 5 but when i get to 15 still when i take the ground off the timing shoots back up to where it was.

 

[GVR4592]

I'm betting your idle speed is significantly higher than it's supposed to be, that's what causing ignition timing to be so high.

 

[bmwracing_6]

its idling at around 1000 rpms... How do you change the idle speed anyway? But even if this is true then why is my car slow as crap? It is so slow .... like slower than a geo metro! What else can cause it to be so slow?

For reference:

The timing on the belt is dead on this is a fresh rebuild... new O2 and knock sensors. everything is stock except it has higher compression from the Wiseco pistons 8.3:1 plus the head has been shaved but it was shaved before and the machine shop said it cant be shaved anymore so i am guessing the compression is probably like 9.0:1. Everything else is completely stock on the engine. The engine lost oil due to a leaky headgasket and seized the motor thats why the build was done.


Thanks Justin

 

[GVR4592]

http://vfaq.com/mods/BISS-1G.html Idle speed adjustment

Get the idle speed and timing adjusted, do a boost leak test and let us know how it all goes.

 

[tqmx1]

Also check your cam to crank timing. line up your intake &exhaust cams and then check the timing marks on the harmonic balancer to see if it slipped.

Years ago I had one slip on a engine sent the timing all to he## and turned it into a DOG.

 

[Talesin]

And again, with that connector non-grounded, the ECU advances the timing. It's supposed to do that.

 

[HIGHPSI4]

If you have a logger and it is unplugged and you have grounded the timing plug on the firewall then you may have a dead CAS. Try another known good CAS.

 

[steve]

If the idle speed is >1200 rpm the ECU will abort set timing mode.

tqmx1 is correct that you need to verify that your timing belt is correct and that the timing mark on the crank pulley hasn't moved from the rubber between the inner hub and outer ring breaking loose. With the engine at TDC as verified by checking the #1 piston travel all the timing marks need to align.

Steve

 

[bmwracing_6]

Ok i set the idle to 700 rpms then tried to set ignition timing and it does the exact same thing however it does stay around 15-20 degrees and not 30. i check the belt timing again and it all lines up and the harmonic balancer lines up to TDC when the piston is at TDC.

crank pulley hasn't moved from the rubber between the inner hub and outer ring breaking loose

What do you mean by this Steve?

I will have to do a boost leak test later but i will keep ya posted.

Thanks Justin

 

[tqmx1]

What Steve and I are saying is the harmonic ballancer (crank pulley) is made of 3 pieces, the inner(witch bolts to the crank) the outer (that the belts drive off) and a piece of rubber that ties the two togther. The rubber is vulicnized between the two pieces of the ballancer with high heat and pressure, if the vulicizning failes it can let the outer slip from the inner throwing your timing marks off.

What we are saying to do is pull #1 sparkplug and eather put in a long screwdriver or 1/4' drive extension and remove the top timing cover. When the piston is at TDC (extension or screwdriver not going up or down) check the cam timing dots& dowls for correct position and then check the crank timing(V in outer pulley to timing marks on plastic splash shield)it should be on zero. If it has slipped you need a new ballancer.

 

[GVR4592]

The crank pulley is two pieces, bonded by rubber. If the rubber breaks, the two pieces can move independently.

 

[bmwracing_6]

What we are saying to do is pull #1 sparkplug and eather put in a long screwdriver or 1/4' drive extension and remove the top timing cover. When the piston is at TDC (extension or screwdriver not going up or down) check the cam timing dots& dowls for correct position and then check the crank timing(V in outer pulley to timing marks on plastic splash shield)it should be on zero. If it has slipped you need a new ballancer.

I did this and it lines up perfectly. But i did not know it had pieces to it so i learned something there. So now that it all lines up and the timing is off does that mean my CAS is bad?

 

[steve]

I'm not aware of anything in the CAS that could cause you to be off like that.

Just to be sure your timing light doesn't have any advance adjustment dial on the back of it.

 

[bmwracing_6]

No there is no dial on it. Would a fuel issue cause this? The car is hard to start plus when i hit the gas there is a delay and it revs very slow also when it idles it sounds like the car is dying. My brother has a walbro fuel pump that i can swap and see what happens.

 

[AndrewD5418]

The crank pulley is two pieces, bonded by rubber. If the rubber breaks, the two pieces can move independently.

Would this require you to reset the timing or not? I've just recently had this happen and I keep getting "36 ignition timing" cel... It will randomly come on.

 

[GVR4592]

No there is no dial on it. Would a fuel issue cause this? The car is hard to start plus when i hit the gas there is a delay and it revs very slow also when it idles it sounds like the car is dying. My brother has a walbro fuel pump that i can swap and see what happens.

That really sounds like the cam timing is off, can you post some pics of the crank and cam timing marks lined up?

 

[steve]

Would this require you to reset the timing or not?

No, if the harmonic dampner breaks apart it won't have any effect on the CAS setting. You just won't be able to set the CAS since you no longer have an accurate ignition timing mark to use.

 

[bmwracing_6]

That really sounds like the cam timing is off, can you post some pics of the crank and cam timing marks lined up?

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As you can see the pins are up and the marks are in line

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Its hard to see it on the crank picture but you can see a spec of the very tip of the arrow pointing to the crank gear. I guess you mostly just have to trust me on this one but they are lined up. I have checked the timing many times before i even posted on here i have been working on this car for about 3 weeks now. I am as stumped as some of you are.

BTW i did log the car with dsmlink like 2-3 weeks ago but never went down the road or anything just sitting there revved it up a couple of times but if i were to post them could anyone see what the problem could be?