BW374 vs BB GT4202 .. is the price difference reasonable?

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

The Turbonetics GTK-1000 is the only turbo of that lineup that is near equivilant to the GT4202, GT4202R, Borg S374.

I can get that turbo (GTK-1000 -- Part # 11264) around $1625.00 through my contacts. I once was able to get the GT4202R for the same price and the GT42 for $1000.

The S374 for $775 was a smoking deal I couldn't pass up. The best I can do on it for future purchases would be around $900, plus tax and shipping through my local distributor (Fuel Systems, Inc).


The GTK-550 is a totally different turbo and is much more comparable to a GT35R. The GTK-650 to the GT4088R and the S362. The GTK-850 to the GT4094R and GT4294R and the S366. The GTK-1000 to the S372 and GT4202R.

I know that i was just asking about the gt-k line-up as a whole.

 

[dSmgs-T]

the BW's are all goneeeeee!!

damnnnn

 

[twicks69]

I am not sure about this particular one-T51-SPL, but alot of of others like:

HKS3037- GT 3076
HKS3040- GT 3082/FP 3065
HKS 3540-GT 35R

And a lot of smaller turbos like Garrett GT 20something...

The T51-KAI and T51R-KAI
Compressor Wheel: 56-Trim 70.3mm Inducer / 94.0mm Exducer
Turbine Wheel: 76 Trim - 82.0mm Inducer / 71.4mm Exducer
Rated flow is ~80lb/min (~800HP)

The T51-SPL and T51R-SPL use:
Compressor Wheel: 56-Trim 76.5mm Inducer/ 102.2mm Exducer
Turbine Wheel: 76 Trim - 82.0mm Major / 71.4mm Exducer
Rated flow is 100lb/min (~1000HP)

Both turbos use a surge-port compressor cover with 4" inlet and ~3.25" outlet. All four of these turbos use a V-Band inlet turbine housing available in a 1.00 or 1.20A/R, and utilize a 115.5mm V-band outlet (~4.5" diameter). The HKS T51-KAI is only available with a 1.0 A/R V-band housing. The compressor housing is HKS proprietary, and the V-band turbine housing is a HKS/TiAL design. I believe that TiAL designed their version after HKS, as the T51's were out for a while before TiAL came public with theirs. Either way, you can get these turbos through TiAL for a fraction of the price of the HKS version. The compressor and turbine wheels are HKS. I am not sure about the center cartridge; I am guessing that they are Garrett GT CHRA's though.


As well, HKS produces the T04R and the later, more advanced version, the T04Z. The T04R is similar to a GT4088, but with a larger compressor inducer (66.7mm ind/84 exd 63-trim) and smaller exducer, and a P-trim (76-trim 74mm ind/64mm exd) exhaust wheel in a S-cover compressor housing (4" inlet/2.5" outlet). It also has a T4 divided flange V-band discharge turbine housing. It uses a cast compressor wheel and a bullet-shaped locknut for the compressor side of the shaft.

The T04Z is ball bearing, and is a bit more technologically advanced in several ways. First off, it uses a HKS-proprietary anti-surge compressor cover, and again has the bullet-shaped locknut for the compressor side of the shaft. In addition, it utilizes a billet compressor wheel, and a modified turbine housing. It is still T4 Divided**, but the ** is the little detail you can only see when closely looking at a picture of the housing. The flange surface is not truly divided T4. There is a small cut in the flange mating surface between the divider to aid in maintaining equalized pressure between both scrolls of the housing to reduce on unequal pressure being placed on the turbine wheel fins, which likely aids in increased efficiency and shaft life. It is also rated for around 700HP and is closest in comparison to a GT4088R turbo.

'
The reason you do not see the HKS T51R-SPL being used is due to the NHRA Sport Compact series having a compressor restriction on the inducer size for class rules (For AWD and FWD) limited to a 74mm turbo -- it is actually 75.85mm though for measurement sake. This is for Pro Import. Essentially all 4-banger hondas and mitsus are stuck in these terms for this class. The T51R-SPL is disqualified from the list of applicable turbos. As well, the T51R-KAI is too little to really compete with the bigger 74mm-based turbos. The GT4202R and Borg S372 and S374 are the biggest dogs in this class.

Pro FWD can run up to an 88mm turbo compressor inducer. This is essentially a turbo sizing of the Garrett GT4718R, Precision Turbo PT-88, Turbonetics Y2K HP-88, and Borg Warner S400SX 88mm turbo and the Bullseye version...S388 and S488 turbochargers.


Hope this information helps.

 

[twicks69]

the BW's are all goneeeeee!!

damnnnn

You snooze, you lose.

I know that AGP is not currently selling any on Ebay for that price either.

You can watch them and see if they have any coming up though. Here is their Ebay Store:
Items for Sale by agpturbo

 

[twicks69]

Ok, here is my new Borg S374! Well, the same one as above, but with a new little twist!

I have attached the photos of it with the standard GT42R cover, and the Bullseye-Power RACE compressor cover with 3" hose outlet. The RACE cover is a small bit larger, but has been proven by Bullseye to generate an extra ~100HP!

These are my Actual numbers measured for wheel sizes:

Compressor inducer 74.2mm
Compressor exducer 102.5mm
Extended Tip O.D. 105.5mm
Turbine inducer 83.7mm
Turbine Exducer 74.3mm
1.1 A/R divided T4
Bullseye RACE 74mm 5.5" inlet/3" hose outlet

Here are the photos!

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[Boosted98gsx]

Pics of naked turbine/compresser please?

 

[twicks69]

Pics of naked turbine/compresser please?

What...You mean these???

Here's the standard 42R cover, and the last four are of the Bullseye RACE cover for comparison!

 

[twicks69]

And here is the last batch!

 

[twicks69]

The biggest issue I will now be faced with, will be fitting this baby in the engine bay!

I have no doubts that it will be done, but it will take a bit of finesse for sure! It will also look very nice with the 5" intake pipe I will be fabbing up for this puppy!

Edit...I just ordered up the couplers, clamps, etc. needed for the swap.

I still need to find a 5.50" to 5.00" straight silicone reducer for the intake pipe -- that will be the most difficult thing.

I also need to fab a new 4" V-band exhaust, a new Honda-sized mini radiator with -20AN fittings and custom lines, -20AN custom main water pipe and water pump/water neck fittings, potentially an alternator relocation, and quite a few other things.

Yay.

 

[gsxtasy]

Good lord Tim, that is gigantic!

 

[twicks69]

Good lord Tim, that is gigantic!

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when I had the race cover sitting next to the GT42R cover...

My friend just came over and checked out the turbo. I had the Race cover installed with the 42R cover sitting next to it. He was acting all unimpressed like the race cover was around 42R sized. Then I told him that the other cover on the floor WAS the 42R cover. Then he was like....HOLY SHIIT! That things Huge!

The RACE cover is around 10" in diameter. I don't have an exact measurement currently.

 

[jo1]

I have mine install with ease even the head to radiator clearance is smaller than DSM..Thanks to topstreet for the radiator suggestion.

It should be a small problem to you with the race cover...

Here pic of mine installed..

 

[gsxtasy]

The RACE cover is around 10" in diameter. I don't have an exact measurement currently.

I think you're going to have to cut a hole in your hood no matter what, no way it'll fit.

 

[twicks69]

I think you're going to have to cut a hole in your hood no matter what, no way it'll fit.

I intend on running a Honda mini-radiator that will be flush under the stock radiator support along the passenger side, and will be running a standard bottom-mount exhaust manifold.

I have already fitted up a GT42R, and can fit that, this race cover is just a bit larger, and I am not sure if it will clear the block with the exhaust manifold I currently have.

I will make it work either way. As well, I won't have to cut a hole in my hood; since it will be a bottom-mount manifold setup.

 

[Slippi84]

I have mine install with ease even the head to radiator clearance is smaller than DSM..Thanks to topstreet for the radiator suggestion.

It should be a small problem to you with the race cover...

Here pic of mine installed..

That things is gigantic. It's like having two engine up front. When tucking everything up under the engine becomes a custom job for even the most trivial parts that's when you know your turbo is to MF big

 

[2deep]

Isnt HKS stuff...or wasnt HKS stuff at one point in time developed/designed by garrett?

Its the other way around! They were designed by HKS with strictly performance in mind, and were produced by Garret. Once the contract with HKS was over, Garret later made slight changes to the wheels which then became what we know to be the GT4294(KAI) and the GT4202(SPL)


Back on topic, thats a smoking deal for the BW.

 

[1fastlaser]

Hey Tim, Have your tried calling some "diesel" repair places. I dont know if they will have a 5.5 to 5 reducer. Ill ask my buddy who works at one of my works accounts, which they work with straight diesel trucks all day, and have the "Hookup" with alot of companies for there "forced induction" needs!

 

[twicks69]

Hey Tim, Have your tried calling some "diesel" repair places. I dont know if they will have a 5.5 to 5 reducer. Ill ask my buddy who works at one of my works accounts, which they work with straight diesel trucks all day, and have the "Hookup" with alot of companies for there "forced induction" needs!

I already found the 5.5" to 5" reducer. It is only $16.00! it is high-density high-temp rubber, but who cares; it is an intake pipe.

http://www.walkerheavyduty.com/products/documents/RubberGoods.pdf
P/N: 36192

They have a dealer 3 miles away from my house.

***EDIT*** I have included the part number for the K&N if anyone is looking for a great price on a 5" inlet filter!

As well, I already ordered the 5" aluminum bends and the MONSTER K&N air filter (5" inlet, 6.5"x10" outer dimensions round straight filter). The part number is: K&N Air Filter #RU3220. Paid $40.00 for it.

 

[Slippi84]

I already found the 5.5" to 5" reducer. It is only $16.00! it is high-density high-temp rubber, but who cares; it is an intake pipe.

http://www.walkerheavyduty.com/products/documents/RubberGoods.pdf
P/N: 36192

They have a dealer 3 miles away from my house. As well, I already ordered the 5" aluminum bends and the MONSTER K&N air filter (5" inlet, 7.5"x12" outer dimensions round straight filter).

I sell walker parts for a living it's our main exhaust line. I might be able to get my hands on something like that. I didn't even know they did couplers I know they have vband clamps and the same hose that is found for return turbo lines I have boxes full with 25 ft per box but no couplers. Good to know.

 

[twicks69]

I sell walker parts for a living it's our main exhaust line. I might be able to get my hands on something like that. I didn't even know they did couplers I know they have vband clamps and the same hose that is found for return turbo lines I have boxes full with 25 ft per box but no couplers. Good to know.

Yeah, take a look into that. As well, the CHEAPEST prices I could find for silicone couplers and T-bolt clamps is at: Silicone Hose for every project.

I just purchased several things from them, and they have some smokin prices!

5" straight coupler (5-ply silicone/4-ply aramid fibers = 9-plies thick, 4.5mm-5mm wall thickness, 3" long coupler) --> $9.99! For 5"!

Reducers ranging from $9.99-$14.99! Again, same construction, awesome prices. I also had excellent customer service and communication from them. They were able to answer several of my questions within 30 minutes late at night via e-mail with real responses! As well, instant notification, and then the next morning I had update confirmation, and shipping confirmation e-mails. I expect to be seeing them 2 days from shipment based on distance.

As well, they have V-Band clamps and weld fittings in mild and stainless steel. A good quality 4" Stainless Steel V-band clamp and machined lip weld flanges costs only $50!



So, it is worth checking out to save several bucks!

 

[projecTSI]

Holy shit Tim, I thought the first cover was huge! The Race one is just massive! Are you still going to be using the DNP manifold, or are you going with something different?

 

[twicks69]

Holy shit Tim, I thought the first cover was huge! The Race one is just massive! Are you still going to be using the DNP manifold, or are you going with something different?

I know the 42R cover fits with the DNP manifold, I will need to do some fitment testing to see what I have for space with the Race compressor cover though.

If I am able to reuse the DNP manifold, I will need some reinforcement bracketry welded on since the turbo is like 45 pounds! It really is huge; think GT45-sized compressor cover! You can actually flip the GT42 cover upside-down and fit its inlet INSIDE my race cover inlet!

 

[twicks69]

That things is gigantic. It's like having two engine up front. When tucking everything up under the engine becomes a custom job for even the most trivial parts that's when you know your turbo is to MF big

That is the sad truth! As well, I will be tuning for my turbo's Volumetric Efficiency instead of my engine's VE! I was seeing it on the GT4088R, and it was obvious when Jake Hanhardt and I were tuning the GT42R on his car back in the day.

When you get to the level of this car, everything becomes custom, that is just the truth of the matter. You may be able to use some off-the-shelf parts, but then you are trying to make something work that may not be correct for the application, requiring modification to the rest of the setup instead of just initially fabbing the part.

 

[Slippi84]

That is the sad truth! As well, I will be tuning for my turbo's Volumetric Efficiency instead of my engine's VE! I was seeing it on the GT4088R, and it was obvious when Jake Hanhardt and I were tuning the GT42R on his car back in the day.

When you get to the level of this car, everything becomes custom, that is just the truth of the matter. You may be able to use some off-the-shelf parts, but then you are trying to make something work that may not be correct for the application, requiring modification to the rest of the setup instead of just initially fabbing the part.

Yup pretty much what he said . This is teh reason I haven't just picked up any old stuff for my build everything has time and thought put into it plus wayyyyyyyy to much research to be doing for something as simple as even IC piping size . I will be curious what this turbo does with a person with your tuning capabilities. I don't think I could ever go that big only because I can't see it being streetable in my eyes.

 

[1fastlaser]

Yeah, take a look into that. As well, the CHEAPEST prices I could find for silicone couplers and T-bolt clamps is at: Silicone Hose for every project.

I just purchased several things from them, and they have some smokin prices!

5" straight coupler (5-ply silicone/4-ply aramid fibers = 9-plies thick, 4.5mm-5mm wall thickness, 3" long coupler) --> $9.99! For 5"!

Reducers ranging from $9.99-$14.99! Again, same construction, awesome prices. I also had excellent customer service and communication from them. They were able to answer several of my questions within 30 minutes late at night via e-mail with real responses! As well, instant notification, and then the next morning I had update confirmation, and shipping confirmation e-mails. I expect to be seeing them 2 days from shipment based on distance.

As well, they have V-Band clamps and weld fittings in mild and stainless steel. A good quality 4" Stainless Steel V-band clamp and machined lip weld flanges costs only $50!



So, it is worth checking out to save several bucks!

I acually ordered my 3.5" v-band kit, acouple reducer silicone couplers, and t bolt clamps from them. They have some DEALS!