Dual BB 50 Trim VS Green

[Syndicate13]

I personally have never seen a bolton hybrid other than an FP turbo run anything near what the manufacturer claimed. I have a Green and my car absolutely hated pump gas, I could not get away with more than 17psi on stock timing without knocking to high heaven. Since I have started to use methanol this car has really pepped up. For anyone looking for spool numbers on the Green I have some. All verified by a GM 3 bar sensor logged through DSMlink.

Positive boost (0.2 psi)= 2381 RPM
10 psi=3687 RPM
20 psi=4233 RPM
25.1 psi= 4470

This is on a 2 litre, 2g pistons, SBR exhaust mani, Evo3 intake mani, and FP1 cams. If I had to do it all over again I would go for the 3052 in a hearbeat. I didn't want to mess with changing my exhaust since I use the ATR turboback but I think I would have been happier if I did.

 

[SFRacingGST]

Is the FP 3052 a 3 inch inlet?? If i was to buy this turbo vs the others i'd need to buy the turbo, v clamp 02 housing, the 44 mm tial wastegate and the new downpipe that i would need, and injecotrs. However it is defantially a bad ass turbo. if i was to the the bb50 trim or the green all i would need is the turbo, a wastegate and injectors. Thats what im debating. What numbers has a bb50 trim hit?? The timslip shown before was for a g50?

 

[90blacktsiawd]

I believe the fp30's are all a 4" inlet. But don't quote me on that.

As for numbers on a BB 50 trim. The numbers in my sig are @ 22psi on a motor with 110 compression across the board running 93 oct. and meth. A better running motor would have obviously bumped that up a good ammount.

 

[TurboDSMer]

Yea the 3052 uses a 4" inlet and the other two have 3" or atleast the green does. Depending on your exhaust the FP v-band O2 housing connects to all after market downpipes that aren't O2 eliminators. And you would need to get a wastegate for the other two turbos as well to actually take advantage of them. And if you do some research you'll find that running the wastegate off of runner #1 is doable but the better way to run a wastegate is at on focal collection point so that way you have the pressure from all 4 cylinders in stead of 1. And the exhaust gases don't have to travel back up to reach the gate. IMO i think running it off the manifold is stupid but some people like it because it saves them some money.

And don't forget you can sell your old parts like the 16g and the evo 3 O2 housing to get more money for the 3052 parts.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

Honestly, its a tough decision dude. The green is nice, but the 3052 is a heck of alot better. I say, if your on a tight budget, go with the 3076r, otherwise, save up for the 3052

 

[Steve93Talon]

I have ran 25 psi on pump gas on a PTE BB5031RLE with no creep/spike. DSMLink logged 1.9second 60-90 runs (good for 116-120 traps)

Are you sure you don't mean 70-90? I've pulled a 1.63 best 70-90 on pump at 25psi on my S256, incidentally. As a former Green owner, I can honestly say the S256 outspools it and at the very least holds it's own up top on pump. On race gas, the S256 should have the advantage with a 56lb/min rating.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

Are you sure you don't mean 70-90? I've pulled a 1.63 best 70-90 on pump at 25psi on my S256, incidentally. As a former Green owner, I can honestly say the S256 outspools it and at the very least holds it's own up top on pump. On race gas, the S256 should have the advantage with a 56lb/min rating.

whats the spool up like on the s256? I really want a 450-500whp pump gas/meth turbo.

 

[Steve93Talon]

I see 25psi by about 3700 with HKS 272s and stock 1G intake. See this thread for more info and logs:

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=151118492#post151118492

 

[SFRacingGST]

Think at this point i am leaning towards the FP green. The other 30 series are really nice but would run me about a grand more just for the 02 housing and wastegate and intake. The green is a known turbo and it can bolt up to my existing setup and all i would need is injectors. Was wondering how the internal 34 mm wastegate compares to running a 38 mm tial on the manifold?? I do not have the 38mm wastegate yet, should i even bother?? thanks for all the replies!! Helping me out ALOT!

 

[Syndicate13]

Internal wastegates suck. You are looking to buy a real turbo, use a real wastegate. Steve, do you have a way to verify your spool numbers?

 

[ypnas777]

I would definitely go with an external setup on a turbo of that size.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Steve, do you have a way to verify your spool numbers?

Take a look at the 2nd log I posted in that link. The Boost Estimate matches actual spool up pretty closely. Once I get my AFRs dialed in, I'll temporarily disconnect the wideband and hook up a MAP sensor to back this data up (1G's only have one open input for logging external sensors).

 

[SFRacingGST]

about the internal wastegate vs the external. how come the fastest green turbo on DSMTimes.com is internally gated?

 

[TSIMonsteR]

I think you would be happy with what ever you decide. The Green is a great 20g like turbo. If you have the extra $100, go for the external gate. If noise is an issue, go internal.... you'll be fine either way.

 

[Steve93Talon]

about the internal wastegate vs the external. how come the fastest green turbo on DSMTimes.com is internally gated?

I just checked DSMtimes, that car was spraying.

The only bolt-on 50 trim without nitrous that I know of in the 10s was Curt Brown's Green and that was a light car, great tune, and great driving. When it comes to internals and big turbos, it's completely hit or miss. I've set up the actuator mount on Tort's internally gated 20g and he went 11.02 @ 126 with it. Plenty of others have run well with them, and then there are people who have problems controlling boost with them and can't break out of the 12s. You can take your chances and try an internal, or you can get an external and be done with it. Also, who says you can't recirculate an external gate?

 

[TSIMonsteR]

Also, who says you can't recirculate an external gate?

True, but not without added cost

 

[brute]

Well, if you're doing the external gate dump the right way, you should have a dump tube anyway. An extra 90* turn and weld into the downpipe would be a little more expensive, if at all. And it'd be oh so worth that extra money, in my opinion.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

I have yet to hear any external/dumped set-up in person, so I don't know if I like the dumped sound or not.

 

[brute]

Just go on YouTube and do a search for it. Like "DSM external" or something like that. I think they would be cool for like a week, after which, it would just be annoying. Many people tend to agree with me, if you'd like to do a search on the matter.

 

[Syndicate13]

Do you drive everywhere at full boost? I daily my car and I hear it open maybe twice a week. Is this going to be the absolute last turbo you'll ever run? Probably not and an external wastegate can be used over and over again.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

Just go on YouTube and do a search for it. Like "DSM external" or something like that. I think they would be cool for like a week, after which, it would just be annoying. Many people tend to agree with me, if you'd like to do a search on the matter.

You are right. I did a search on you tube... seems like that would get old quickly.

 

[DSM90AWD]

My .02
An external WG off the O2 housing dumped to ATM is no more annoying than a 3" exhaust (I have both). An O2 dump w/ inernal WG on the other hand is annoying as hell

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I think you would be happy with what ever you decide. The Green is a great 20g like turbo. If you have the extra $100, go for the external gate. If noise is an issue, go internal.... you'll be fine either way.

If you know of a $100 tial wastegate, do share...I'm in the market for one right now.

 

[Steve93Talon]

If you know of a $100 tial wastegate, do share...I'm in the market for one right now.

He's referring to the difference in cost between a typical internal gate option on a larger turbo and a Tial 38mm.

 

[definitiveno]

My .02
An external WG off the O2 housing dumped to ATM is no more annoying than a 3" exhaust (I have both). An O2 dump w/ inernal WG on the other hand is annoying as hell

Did you happen to write what you meant backwards by chance? How is it that an atmosphere dump is not that bad but internal dump is annoying as hell?