Blue Smoke [Merged 7-9]

[WhiteCloud]

After driving from Charlottesville, VA to Gainesville, FL to visit my best friend for his birthday, I got back into stop and go traffic in the city and noticed I was puffing some blue smoke when taking off from a stop. I'd never noticed this before the trip, so I'm inclined to think something during the trip caused it.

Symptoms:
1) Puffs a cloud of blue smoke shortly after revving engine in neutral.
2) Puffs a cloud of blue smoke while taking off in first gear, but not always noticeable.
3) Doesn't trail smoke like it would if it were a head gasket.
4) Turbo doesn't seem to have excessive shaft play, and boosts fine.
5) I'm burning some oil, but not a tremendous amount (I burned maybe 1/4-1/3 of a quart on the 700+ mile trip back to VA from FL.

I'm wondering what you guys think the problem is, judging from these symptoms.

I've been told to check the PCV valve, but I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for (in terms of oil, residue, etc. on or in the valve!?), or if I should just be replacing that to see if it fixes the smoke.

What would your next step be if your car were puffing this blue smoke? Is there a way to tell if it is valve seals?

Thanks for the help,

Joe

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Did you do any type of break in process? I've read some guys had blue smoke for a little and then went away after the rings sealed up and everything worked out good. But, follow the break in process, just search its somewhere on the boards.

James

 

[delta448]

How confident are you in the person's abilities who built the engine? Were tolerances checked closely? How's the oil pressure? Any oil leaks around the deck surface or around the new oil pump?

It's normal to have a small amount of bluish smoke after an engine build but if it's really bad I'd shut it down and double check the compression. As the rings get broken-in the compression goes up and the smoke usually fades away.

 

[OneLove]

Break the motor in. You cant just throw in a new motor and then go beat on the car right away.

 

[LTUDSM]

yeaah i know bout the break in the motor,i read bout that a lot and most of the guys are doing 1000 miles and not over 3000rpms for break in the motor.my oil pressure at warm up idle is 15 and on cold start 70-75psi.i got no oil leaks at all.im not sure ,but i read that the rings got to be seated.i don't know is that true or not.before the rebuild.my exhaust was full of oil due blown turbo,maybe thats why im geting blue smoke,but im not sure...
talking about break in,my motor is fresh,i did just two miles around the block ,then i saw blue smoke,and shut the car of,because im afraid ti demage something.i gapped the rings to .18 and.20 The technician from Wiseco suggested me to gap that size,cause im gonna run high boost

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Holy shizt that seems close for some reason.

James

 

[TxR6guy]

I maybe wrong but dont you on the Weisco's gap around .45? i dunno i have to go out there and look, Ive got Weisco's too and i think thats what the paper said is around that area.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

We're both thinking of cylinder to piston clearance. Had to check that. The ring gap you did should be fine.

James

 

[95eclipser]

if you put in a new motor i would try and do a break in with it first many differant ways to do it just remember to vary your speed constintly... then do a couple pulls take the car home and let it cool down over night and the rings should settle and no more smoke....

lets us know

 

[mkgearhead]

my exhaust was full of oil due blown turbo,maybe thats why im geting blue smoke,but im not sure...
talking about break in,my motor is fresh,i did just two miles around the block ,then i saw blue smoke,and shut the car of,because im afraid ti demage something.i gapped the rings to .18 and.20 The technician from Wiseco suggested me to gap that size,cause im gonna run high boost

If you had a blown turbo, your intercooler probably has oil in it, too. My son bought a '90 GST with a blown turbo and after he replaced the turbo, it smoked like crazy until he ran all the oil out of the intercooler (he was too lazy to pull the intercooler and clean it) You also need to break in the engine. Smoke on a fresh rebuild is fairly common.

 

[travunder]

Sounds like your rings are not seating, your oil rings could be put on wrong as well, either way your burning oil, Me and my friend built three engines so far and as soon as we started it up and took it out we beat on it and they have over 3000 miles on them and there doing fine. Although we might of got lucky but ive asked performance shops and they said as soon as they build a engine they take it to the dyno they get the engine to normal operating temp. and do alot of pulls and to redline. Hope this helps.

 

[Nekoni]

1990 Eclipse GSX 129.5k miles
Evo III 16g (1000 miles on it)
New Head 04/02/98 @ 44681 miles
10w30 Royal Purple changed every 2k miles
NEVER ran a boost controller, it's been at stock or below stock boost its whole life (currently 9psi).
Oil dipstick is not crushed and does not blow out.
PCV seems to be working fine and is hooked up to the stock locations.

Leakdown test results at 100psi (possibly more, lost my gauge and had to use a cheapo one to measure psi):
Cyl #1: 13%
Cyl #2: 8%
Cyl #3: 13%
Cyl #4: 8%


She's been blowing a little smoke but as of late, it's gotten a lot worse. Doesn't do it on decel or a whole hell of a lot during accel. but it is visible to the people behind me during acceleration. When I rev the car up back to back to back, it's not bad, when I let it idle for a minute and rev it once, it bellows it out.

Sound like valve stem seals to everybody else or are there more question you want to ask me?

 

[Nekoni]

Valve stem seals on the way! Thanks for the speedy replies!

 

[Artago]

I'm the newest member of the "blue smoke" club. I honestly think it's my PCV valve because I'm blowing a little oil out of my oil cap too. I'm replacing it tonight and also doing a compression check tonight (as long as Autozone has a tester in stock for me to buy). I'll post results tomorrow. Wish me luck.....

Bring this thread back from the dead. 99gst_racer, I have the same problem. Pushing oil past the oil cap which is BRAND new along with the VC. My PCV is leaking for sure, I can blow right through it.

You mentioned that you were going to replace the PCV, did that solve your problem? If not, did you ever find the problem? Please let me know.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[99gst_racer]

Bring this thread back from the dead. 99gst_racer, I have the same problem. Pushing oil past the oil cap which is BRAND new along with the VC. My PCV is leaking for sure, I can blow right through it.

You mentioned that you were going to replace the PCV, did that solve your problem? If not, did you ever find the problem? Please let me know.

Back then, my problem was a bad 14b, pushing oil into the IC pipes.

My new system does not utilize a PCV valve (smim), and I push a bit of oil past the oil cap seal. It's basically due to poor crankcase evacuation. I'm already working on the fix though. A VC with larger, -10 ports should do the trick.


Is your new PCV valve a Mitsu OE valve? I've heard of people having problem with off-the-shelf parts store valves.

 

[Artago]

Back then, my problem was a bad 14b, pushing oil into the IC pipes.

My new system does not utilize a PCV valve (smim), and I push a bit of oil past the oil cap seal. It's basically due to poor crankcase evacuation. I'm already working on the fix though. A VC with larger, -10 ports should do the trick.


Is your new PCV valve a Mitsu OE valve? I've heard of people having problem with off-the-shelf parts store valves.

I'm not sure. It came with the VC I bought and it's powder coated so I can't really tell. I also went to the local parts store wanted to buy a Fram PCV but it leaked both ways out of the box.

It first started smoking and pushing oil past the cap just a little. I've since replaced the cap and got a new VC with PCV. It's slowly getting worse. It smokes a bunch when I first start it up and then less and less as it warms up. It does not appear to smoke more under boost but it does appear to smoke more under decel.

My thought was to route the PCV to the breather line which goes to the intake and cap the hole on the IM. What do you think? Should I do that or just get an OEM PCV from the dealer? I hear those can go bad real quick.

Thanks for any input,

Tom

 

[99gst_racer]

It first started smoking and pushing oil past the cap just a little. I've since replaced the cap and got a new VC with PCV. It's slowly getting worse. It smokes a bunch when I first start it up and then less and less as it warms up. It does not appear to smoke more under boost but it does appear to smoke more under decel.

If you get smoke on start-up and deceleration (vacuum condition), then I would suspect worn valve stem seals.

 

[Artago]

If you get smoke on start-up and deceleration (vacuum condition), then I would suspect worm valve stem seals.

It's really heavy on start up until it warms up. Then it's barely noticeable. I was thinking valve stem seals too because my PCV is leaking and oil is being pushed past the oil cap.

A leak down test would reveal if the valve stem seals are leaking, correct?

If it does turn out to be valve stem seals, how hard is it to replace them? Is there a write up for it somewhere?

My seals should all be new, any chance they will re-seat themselves once I fix the PCV? Any additives I can add to help expand them? Lucas oil might be a temporary fix but I already have high oil pressure and that would make it higher.

Would lower oil pressure reduce blow by the valve stem seals?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[99gst_racer]

A leak down test would reveal if the valve stem seals are leaking, correct?

Nope. A leakdown test will determine a leak from a cylinder (head gasket, valves, rings), and the stem seals are all above the valves, in the ports.

If it does turn out to be valve stem seals, how hard is it to replace them? Is there a write up for it somewhere?

Valvespring compressors

They are much easier to replace when the head is removed. Honestly, if you plan to pull the head, take it to a few machine shops and get a quote on the labor. They are typically better prepared and more efficient at replacing them than most of us simple guys working out of our garages. My local guys charges somewhere around $20-30 (can't remember exactly how much I paid last year when I had mine done). That sure beats making my own compressor and spending time doing it myself.

My seals should all be new, any chance they will re-seat themselves once I fix the PCV?

Yes, if you can improve the crankcase's path of evacuation, it can definitely help oil consumption. In extreme cases of high crankcase pressures, oil can be pushed past the seals even when they aren't damaged or defective. So, there's a good chance you can fix your PCV valve issue, it is may solve all smoking issues. The more pressure in the crankcase, the worse your stem seal situation will be. Ideally, if you can keep your crankcase under vacuum, that would be prime, but that's a whole different ball of wax.

Any additives I can add to help expand them? Lucas oil might be a temporary fix but I already have high oil pressure and that would make it higher.

I've never been a fan of oil additives. I've never recommended anyone use them before. I'm not sure if anything is out there that claims to fix failed stem seals, but even if there was something that claimed the fame, I'd still be very critical of it.

Would lower oil pressure reduce blow by the valve stem seals?

No, your engine oil pressure won't have much, if any, affect on your stem seals. If they are bad, then aren't going to get better until replaced.

 

[Trampisjr]

Hello,
I brought a turbo kit for my car, I have it on, but its been parked at the garage for the longest time cause I couldnt pay the bill.
Now I can, but.....
Well, my problem is that there is blue smoke coming out of the tail pipe after it runs for a good 20 or so min., I know this means it is burning oil, but I know it can't be the engine cause I put a new rebuilt engine in it.
So Im wanting to jerk turbo off and be done with it, but it seems to be running great other then cloud of blue smoke from he tail pipe...Im thinking its a bad turbo.
Oh and the turbo gets really hot and starts smoking.


If anyone has any ideas or anything it will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Lofty]

I'm no pro, but check the turbine for any play. It really sounds like a bad turbo.

 

[rstare]

I have heard of people getting blue smoke, with a bad oil seals on the turbo. Check your i/c pipes.
Could also be bad piston rings, (there not totally sealing). But you say you just rebuilt it...
Check your i/c pipes and do a compression test.

 

[weldtuner]

I agree with checking your I/C piping and checking for shaft play. you didn't mention type of turbo or who installed it, you may want to make sure the return line to oil pan is not kinked or restricted, causing oil to build-up inside turbo

 

[Trampisjr]

My engine was smoking blue smoke before I put a new rebulit engine in it i brought from a company.
Since the engine is new and rebuilt and the car smoked before the engine was put in I am guessing the blue smoke has nothing to do with the engine and its in the turbo itself.
Just a guess, but I could be wrong.
The oil return line is big enough and straight...I dont understand how thie I/C piping could be the cause of the problem?
But Ill check that too.

 

[rstare]

Its the bad oil seals on the turbo that would be causing the problem. Im saying to look in your I/C pipes because if the oil seals are bad it will push oil into your piping.

 

[aaronspeed]

It could be the rear turbo seal that oil is going past and going direct to the down pipe. Check your plugs and verify no oil on them first, then remove your boost(pressure) pipe while it is running and see if your getting smoke.