Blue Smoke [Merged 7-9]

[WhiteCloud]

After driving from Charlottesville, VA to Gainesville, FL to visit my best friend for his birthday, I got back into stop and go traffic in the city and noticed I was puffing some blue smoke when taking off from a stop. I'd never noticed this before the trip, so I'm inclined to think something during the trip caused it.

Symptoms:
1) Puffs a cloud of blue smoke shortly after revving engine in neutral.
2) Puffs a cloud of blue smoke while taking off in first gear, but not always noticeable.
3) Doesn't trail smoke like it would if it were a head gasket.
4) Turbo doesn't seem to have excessive shaft play, and boosts fine.
5) I'm burning some oil, but not a tremendous amount (I burned maybe 1/4-1/3 of a quart on the 700+ mile trip back to VA from FL.

I'm wondering what you guys think the problem is, judging from these symptoms.

I've been told to check the PCV valve, but I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for (in terms of oil, residue, etc. on or in the valve!?), or if I should just be replacing that to see if it fixes the smoke.

What would your next step be if your car were puffing this blue smoke? Is there a way to tell if it is valve seals?

Thanks for the help,

Joe

 

[Prez]

I am having a similar problem with mine. I have 5K on both engine and turbo with brand new valave stem seals. Compression is 160 across the board and leak down test is good.

I called a vendor this morning and they suggested that I may have a peice of silicon stuck in the dump from the EVOIII 16g to the pan which would make sense since not to long ago it didn't smoke.. then I pulled the trubo for an O2 houing mod then put the return line back on with some silicone this time. Since then smoke. Also check crank case vetalation they said that can cause it as well.

 

[Prez]

I was reading an older thread where someone mentions to much crank pressure can cause this as well and I got plenty of that. What are some ways of releaving this extra pressure. Wanna try all my options before I buy the miller tool.

 

[Game Over]

Connect the line from your valve cover to your intake pipe.

 

[oldman]

Alright, there seem to be a lot of people having this problem on this thread and most of them I suspect are caused by excessive crankcase pressure. Any of you who has re-routed your pcv and breather to a catch can must do the following.

1. Hollow out the pcv or replace it with a straight fitting. pcv is designed to be sucked open by vacuum in the intake rather than pushed open by pressure from the crankcase.

2. the catch can must have good venting capacity.

You can run a boost leak test to determine what exactly is causing oil leakage, read through this thread and you should know what to do. Good luck to all of you, post back questions if you have any.

 

[Prez]

Ok now here is another question I have.

If valve stem seals are the issue wouldn't the plugs show sing of oil burning especially if you let the car idle and then pull the plug since at idle is when the leak occurs?

I sure think the plugs would show signs of oil. And if they don't could it be a return line backing up into the turbo at idle? Compression is 155/155/155/155...

 

[oldman]

If valve stem seals are the issue wouldn't the plugs show sing of oil burning especially if you let the car idle and then pull the plug since at idle is when the leak occurs?

Not neccessarily, it all depends on how much oil and whether if it's the intake or exhaust valve seals that are leaking.

I sure think the plugs would show signs of oil. And if they don't could it be a return line backing up into the turbo at idle? Compression is 155/155/155/155

If that was the case, you would have oil over the intake tract and probably smoking under boost.

The most import thing right now is to make sure the crankcase is vented probably before you figure out the problem so you don't do anymore damage.

 

[Prez]

Not neccessarily, it all depends on how much oil and whether if it's the intake or exhaust valve seals that are leaking.


If that was the case, you would have oil over the intake tract and probably smoking under boost.

The most import thing right now is to make sure the crankcase is vented probably before you figure out the problem so you don't do anymore damage.

The Crank Case is vented fine. I put it back to stock and still same issue. The PCV valve is fine as you can feel it sucking in air at idle, unless that is incorrect.

If the oil is backing up the return line and pushing out the seal on the exhaust side of the turbo I would not get oil in the intake side then.

As bad as it smokes when a tap the throttle at idel it has to build some good oil in the combustion chaber. I went so far last night to let the car run at idel for 5 mins tap throttle and it smoked good so I let it idle for 10 mins and then killed it and pull the plugs they were perfect. No oil residue or anything.

Maybe I will take some video tonight to show what it does a little better. It seems or smoke under WOT as well because people are telling me when I get on the gas while driving it smoked pretty decent.

I just want to solve it as it's only got 5-6K on it and it should not do any of this.

 

[zero97tsi]

So anyway, I accidently passed my mom and step-dad on the freeway today (I say accidently because right when I noticed it was them I knew I was going to get an earful because I was doing 60 in a 55 where she does 50) and my step dad told me when I stepped on it to go around a car some blue-ish smoke came out.

So first thing I did was get home and check the trubo. There is no shaft play what so ever, its still as perfectly solid as it has been since I bought it. So I asked him more about it and he said it wasnt an oil smoke it was more of a light blus smoke like gas.

What could cause that? Ive noticed lately my car smells gasy lately as well.

 

[91talon27]

Your car is probably running a bit too rich.

 

[Cs4g63]

Light blue smoke is normally caused by your rings being worn out.

 

[illegal99si]

I agree the rings are probably worn out

 

[91talon27]

I know I read it as blue but, was thinking black.

 

[zero97tsi]

Is there a pretty definent way to test the rings for badness without tearing into the engine?

The engine was rebuilt about 20,000 miles ago and I know they put new pistons and rings in.

 

[kingjust]

Is there a pretty definent way to test the rings for badness without tearing into the engine?

The engine was rebuilt about 20,000 miles ago and I know they put new pistons and rings in.

A "leak down test"... most definitely burning some oil, if i'm not mistaken by the blue color!
Your scrapers are bad (one of the piston rings).

KJ

 

[wangboy925]

I just had my 6bolt rebuilt 600 miles ago, metal head gasket, head job, etc. When I had the car back from the shop it would smoke to kingdom come. The mechanic said it was the oil seal in the turbo. So I replaced the turbo, but it still smokes, but its alot less. My compression numbers from the passenger side to the driver side is 190,185,187,190. I also see what looks like oil coming out of the farthest left cylinder. I know this because oil surrounds the outter flange of the manifold of that runner where it meets the manifold gasket. I took the manifold off and there was a bunch of black nasty stuff in that exhaust port while the other ports were fine. I also took off the spark plug of that cylinder and it was blackened and seemed alittle wet. I went ahead and replaced my plug wires because it seemed that it wasn't getting a spark. That didn't help solve the problem either. Im pretty sure this is a valve guide problem seeing that my rings are fine, head gasket is fine (no oil/coolant mixture), and turbo is fine. Also I have been running the new turbo for over 150 miles and the smoke did not go away.

 

[SBR Joe]

Sounds like a bad valve seal to me, wierd though beings the top end was just rebuilt.



Joe

 

[4ced4g63]

Lots of times they will lap valves etc. and not touch the valve seals. Check your paperwork and double check that they replaced the seals.

 

[wangboy925]

Valve guides and valve seals are the same correct? Could they be replaced w/o removing the head?

 

[97 4G63]

No valve guides and seals are not the same and you need to remove the head to install new guides.

 

[wangboy925]

Wouldn't you have to take the camshafts out in order to replace the valve stem seals? and in order to take out the cams wouldn't you have to take the head off and remove the timing belt?

 

[wangboy925]

Here are some pics I took.

 

[hedrick]

You will have to remove the head to replace the valve stem seals because the valves have to be removed in order to get the seals out. If this was my car I would go back to the mechanic and tell him to fix it for free! No fresh rebuild should smoke like your describing. Also just a note, blue smoke = oil and white smoke = coolant.

 

[wangboy925]

And I also found out that there was a little bit of oil in my breather filter hose that comes off the valve cover. All of these conditions lead to either A) bad valve stem seals B) bad guides C) cracked head gasket even though i have near perfect compression.

 

[awdtalontsi1992]

The valve seals and guides are 2 very different parts of the head. If you want to replace valve guides the head must be removed. However valve seals can be replaced with the head still on the car. The cams do have to be removed though. You can use compressed air funneled into the spark plug hole to hold the valves up and remove the springs. It is very easy to break these seals while installing them. Your machinist should have caught a bad or broken seal during the rebuilding process. I would take it back to them and they should remedy the problem at no cost to you.

 

[hedrick]

The valve seals and guides are 2 very different parts of the head. If you want to replace valve guides the head must be removed. However valve seals can be replaced with the head still on the car. The cams do have to be removed though. You can use compressed air funneled into the spark plug hole to hold the valves up and remove the springs. It is very easy to break these seals while installing them. Your machinist should have caught a bad or broken seal during the rebuilding process. I would take it back to them and they should remedy the problem at no cost to you.

You could use compressed air to hold the valves closed but removing the old valve stem seals would be a pain with the valves there. Its hard enough to remove the seals with no valves! As far as installing the new seals, using a deep 10mm socket on a 6" extenstion bar with a small hammer and some silicone spray makes for an easy installation. Honestly, I would rather remove the head then try to work around the valves. just my .02