Blown head gasket with no visible leaks?

[Rokien]

Heres the story..

The headgasket years ago was blown and the timing went out , so the head had to be restored, grinded and pressure tested.

Now. all of wich is now fixed, from idler pulleys, belts, valves, redone head, new gaskets, seals ect..

The car was running well for me after i drove it home from the shop. then later that day around 9:00pm i saw white smoke behind me.

Here is a video to show you, the car still runs and turns over, to which im happy for , but now it chugs on coolant; but only leaks out the exhaust.

I pulled out the plugs, and found only two of which had coolant in, but im sure thats because the other two cylinders had already drank some, there is also no coolant mixed with any of my oil as my pan checks out clean every time i dip my stick in to check for contaminants.

heres my link for the video: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McMkoLr-X70]Talon coolant leak - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TALON_TSI27]

I'd take it back to the shop. An check your over flow if its pushing coolant then you deff have a blown gasket

 

[91-GS]

If a head gasket is leaking there won't be any external leaks. Just smoke and sweet-ish smell form the exhaust, running out of coolant, coolant smelling like exhaust, lack of power.
Had a bad bad leak on mine after installing the gasket, dropped a bolt in the cylinder (accidentally) after the head was torqued down, took the head back off to get the bolt out, bolted the head back without replacing head gasket or head bolts, reassembled the rest, and went for a drive. About twenty minutes later the temp gauge was near the red, radiator was dry, and heater was not working. Not to mention it was so weak that a dog could outrun me. So fiexed it right (new gasket, new bolts) and have been running good ever since. Problem was that ALL cylinders were leaking after the first time, letting watter into cylinders and compression out.

EDIT: a car will run/drive for a while after HG starts leaking. Our Ranger had one leaking for three years till one day i shut it off and it hydrolocked and won't even turn over.

 

[Rokien]

i did put new gaskets, recently. it went during acceleration. from gears 1-3.

the main headbolts that are Allen key bolts. are they supposed to be swapped with new ones? i had torqued them all down to spec and re-checked. everything was tight and nothing appeared wrong, the bolts didnt indicate any stretching either.

i had made sure i didnt drop anything inside the cylinders by putting in the plugs first

i had no indication of the engine over heating.

i checked the levels everytime i stopped. and it isnt draining out of my overflow tank, seems to be going right through the cylinders out the exhaust.

 

[91-GS]

If the bolts are OEM they HAVE to be replaced (they stretch about 1/2 inch during installation).

 

[Rokien]

SOB

well i hope its as simple as that, im not sure how to tell if they are OEM or not, as it was from a previous owner, in any case it would be good to check up on.

 

[91-GS]

DO get another head gasket too!

It's too cold to go out and look, but i believe OEM bolts are 10 mm allien.

If that's all that is, you are lucky. It only takes about a half a day to change a head gasket. Let us know when you get it fixed.

 

[Rokien]

Definately will . it will be a little while before i can, due to school sucking my money!

 

[91-GS]

The gasket and the bolts will cost about $200. Hopefully you have the tools and the repair manual, if not that's another about $100 for cheap ones.

 

[Boostavvo]

Don't know what kind of head gasket you got in your car or if it's torqued right take it back to the shop and your receipt also. I assume the job's guaranteed.

 

[streetraceboi]

Youll spend $30-40 on a FelPro composite headgasket...and another $90 on ARP headstuds. Do it right the first time. Take it back....tell them they suck...slap them...and tell them to do it right

 

[91-GS]

Head STUDS are ones that don't have to be replaced every time, right? Heard that somehere else, just double-checking.

 

[BogusSVO]

ARP head studs can be reused several times, just measure for stretch each time they are out.

What Head gasket was installed? MLS? Composite?

How was the head surfaced?

If the bolts are OEM they HAVE to be replaced (they stretch about 1/2 inch during installation).

This is true of the 7 bolt 11mm head bolts, but from reading on here, the 6bolt 12mm head bolts can be used over.

 

[Rokien]

Im sure the head bolts dont need replacement since it was torque to spec and not torque to yeild; but for the sake of eliminating the issue slowly i will get new headblots. i did the installation and repairs myself.

As for the head it was grinded and pressure tested because its not cast iron, but aluminum, by a local store that has good reputation.

for the head gasket i cant remember it was whatever lordco auto parts co. could get me. i got the whole headgasket kit, pulleys and belts for 130$ through a guy i know, cannot remember the brand..

i had torqued the head bolts to spec, in circular pattern starting with the center bolts moving outwards, to get that optimum seal.

the ECI gasket might not be sealing properly but i dont see any leaks from in behind, the only leaks are internal.

i will ask for the gaskets and bolts you guys reccomended me for sure.

thanks for the help !

edit: the head gasket was composite, a crush type material.

 

[BogusSVO]

The pressure test for cracks is fine.

All HG have some sort of crush to them. Weather it is a composite or a MLS.

You make me cringe when you say the head was "grinded" It makes me think of some horrid surface on your head.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...0613-why-not-let-your-head-belt-surfaced.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...face-4g63t-cylinder-head-mls-head-gasket.html

 

[Rokien]

machined the head,

 

[91-GS]

BogusSVO, am reading a thread about resurfacing head/block and have couple of questions:
surfaces only need to be machined when they are not level (don't fix something that's not broken), right?
I'm using a set of feeler gauges from Autozone and a 'Mayes 12" Combination square' for a straightedge (checking for flatness). Do you think they are good enough for the job or should i invest into something better?

Edit: first time had to fix her took head to a shop for resurfacing and valve replacement. This time she's getting some aftermarket parts, but still want to check everything, make sure head/block are nice and level.

 

[Rokien]

Thats an excellent point. Im guessing that I should check with a feeler gaugue without the gasket.
Atleast im making sure I check all the points of intrest rather than finding out I forgot something and have to buy a new headgasket. Ive gone through 4 head gaskets haha....

 

[91-GS]

(Taken from a repair manual)
Cylinder head warpage service limit 0.008 inch

Also make sure the surfaces are clean before measuring (although you probably already knew that)

 

[Rokien]

Thanks allot, you have helped me out immensely

im gonna go look into this tomorrow after lectures and practicals!

 

[91-GS]

You mean lectures are more important than your car? You'r crazy. Just kidding Glad i could help.

 

[BogusSVO]

BogusSVO, am reading a thread about resurfacing head/block and have couple of questions:
surfaces only need to be machined when they are not level (don't fix something that's not broken), right?
I'm using a set of feeler gauges from Autozone and a 'Mayes 12" Combination square' for a straightedge (checking for flatness). Do you think they are good enough for the job or should i invest into something better?

Edit: first time had to fix her took head to a shop for resurfacing and valve replacement. This time she's getting some aftermarket parts, but still want to check everything, make sure head/block are nice and level.

That should get you close as far as warp is concerned. But you have to look for other imperfections also, mainly fire rings from the HG digging into the block.

I forget the thread but I posted pics of blocks I have surfaced, most all blocks need surfaced, just due to age, and the respective torquing of the head bolts/studs will pull the deck up

**Edit** I found it
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/457456-piston-good.html

Check the pics in post 15

Thats an excellent point. Im guessing that I should check with a feeler gaugue without the gasket.
Atleast im making sure I check all the points of intrest rather than finding out I forgot something and have to buy a new headgasket. Ive gone through 4 head gaskets haha....

Gone through 4HG?? as in blown? Failed? I would have the block decked at that point

(Taken from a repair manual)
Cylinder head warpage service limit 0.008 inch

Also make sure the surfaces are clean before measuring (although you probably already knew that)

.008 is the combined total that can be removed from the head and block per the FSM

AERA, Automotive Engine Rebuilder Association, says .015 from the head.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...how-measure-4g63-cylinder-head-thickness.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/341627-how-check-head-warp.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/413772-how-clean-head-gasket-surface.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...-deck-4g63-cast-iron-block.html#post152790451

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...block-i-have-ever-surfaced.html#post153128223

 

[Doesnt start monthly]

Just my op, but never reuse OE head bolts. In my exp 90% of the time they stretch.

 

[Rokien]

So the head gasket I used was felpro. Should I look at something different?

 

[BogusSVO]

No, Felpro PT9627 composite gasket has been proven to over 500hp w/ standard ARP head studs.

Post pics of the head and block gasket surfaces when you have it apart.