Black's DSM (UPDATE NEED HELP\ADVICE)

[BlackMount]

Ok ok ok Still frustraited as hell

"DSM - Turning peace loving sober men into tool throwing foul mouthed alcoholics since 1989"


so car's been running uber rich and CEL is on, last full tank of gas lasted 89 miles and that's keeping my foot out of it. I've replaced my MAF, ECU, O2 Sensor, Cam-AS, Coil Pack, Fairly new Walbro 255 Fuel Pump (20K or less), Plugs are 2k miles old, but I've been running very rich, but no missing so I'm sure they are fine.

What else should I try? I need to get the code pulled but I need to buy at least a buzzer and I am litterally out of all money right now, so I want to try to avoid that.

 

[gofer]

Ok ok ok Still frustraited as hell

"DSM - Turning peace loving sober men into tool throwing foul mouthed alcoholics since 1989"


so car's been running uber rich and CEL is on, last full tank of gas lasted 89 miles and that's keeping my foot out of it. I've replaced my MAF, ECU, O2 Sensor, Cam-AS, Coil Pack, Fairly new Walbro 255 Fuel Pump (20K or less), Plugs are 2k miles old, but I've been running very rich, but no missing so I'm sure they are fine.

What else should I try? I need to get the code pulled but I need to buy at least a buzzer and I am litterally out of all money right now, so I want to try to avoid that.

ADJUSTABLE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR.

DSM tuners members: asking for help and then not listening to suggestions since 2002.

 

[Jimmyskrew face]

Ok ok ok Still frustraited as hell

"DSM - Turning peace loving sober men into tool throwing foul mouthed alcoholics since 1989"


so car's been running uber rich and CEL is on, last full tank of gas lasted 89 miles and that's keeping my foot out of it. I've replaced my MAF, ECU, O2 Sensor, Cam-AS, Coil Pack, Fairly new Walbro 255 Fuel Pump (20K or less), Plugs are 2k miles old, but I've been running very rich, but no missing so I'm sure they are fine.

What else should I try? I need to get the code pulled but I need to buy at least a buzzer and I am litterally out of all money right now, so I want to try to avoid that.

Are you running an adjustable fuel pressure regulator if so. I'd try to turn the pressure down.. Also is it a stock ecu or eprom/chipped..? What size injectors are you running?

 

[stefanOst]

You should definitely try pulling the code. If you are concerned about saving money, you don't want to be taking shots in the dark and spending money on parts you don't need to replace, so get that code pulled and you should have a better idea of what needs replacing

 

[BlackMount]

You should definitely try pulling the code. If you are concerned about saving money, you don't want to be taking shots in the dark and spending money on parts you don't need to replace, so get that code pulled and you should have a better idea of what needs replacing

no money to buy buzzer to pull code

ADJUSTABLE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR.

DSM tuners members: asking for help and then not listening to suggestions since 2002.

1: Cant afford
2: Not my problem, friend with the same set up as me is running stock FPR on Stock Injectors on 255 FP @ 15 PSI boost and not having my issue.

Are you running an adjustable fuel pressure regulator if so. I'd try to turn the pressure down.. Also is it a stock ecu or eprom/chipped..? What size injectors are you running?

No, Stock ECU, Stock Size- 450cc


EDIT: I can unplug both my O2 sensor, and my MAF sensor at the same time and run the car and the car will not change how it runs, the idle wont even budge from me doing that. It's not my ECU because my ECU came out of a running car.

 

[gofer]

1: Cant afford
2: Not my problem, friend with the same set up as me is running stock FPR on Stock Injectors on 255 FP @ 15 PSI boost and not having my issue.

It most definitely IS your problem...

Just because your friends car is fine running like that doesn't mean yours is, replace the fuel pressure regulator.

 

[BlackMount]

It most definitely IS your problem...

Just because your friends car is fine running like that doesn't mean yours is, replace the fuel pressure regulator.

you said AFPR not FPR so I thought you were saying buy a AFPR not replace the Stock one.

I will try replacing that, but would that throw a CEL?

Also would running with out the Waste Gate Control Solenoid Valve have anything to do with it? Mine was eliminated when I installed my MBC. I just realized my Fuel Pressure Solenoid Valve isn't hooked up, so I will try hooking that up and see if it does anything different. Maybe that's my problem

 

[r18eclipse]

First step, make effort and find out what error code you have encountered....that will make life much easier.

 

[gofer]

you said AFPR not FPR so I thought you were saying buy a AFPR not replace the Stock one.

I will try replacing that, but would that throw a CEL?

Also would running with out the Waste Gate Control Solenoid Valve have anything to do with it? Mine was eliminated when I installed my MBC. I just realized my Fuel Pressure Solenoid Valve isn't hooked up, so I will try hooking that up and see if it does anything different. Maybe that's my problem

AFPR = adjustable fuel pressure regulator & FPR = fuel pressure regulator

Essentially your replacing the SAME part, whether you replace it with a fpr or afpr. Replacing your OEM fpr is just putting a band aid on a problem thats going to keep coming back. If you replace your OEM fpr with another OEM fpr then that 255 will overun it once again and leave you in the exact same place you are now. I said put on an afpr because you can spend the money ONCE and be done with it...

 

[gofer]

I just realized my Fuel Pressure Solenoid Valve isn't hooked up, so I will try hooking that up and see if it does anything different. Maybe that's my problem

 

[BlackMount]

well...it seems that half helped. put the fuel pressure control valve all back up together, and it helped the car in that I see less black smoke now, and the car is actually pulling harder, and free rev's... It's still not running right, still running way to rich, I investigated some of my wiring while i was out there for my MAF + O2 sensor, nothing out of the ordinary, all the wires are intact. My Purge Solenoid valve was also unhooked so idk, when i grab some more vacuum lines and hook that sucker up....why they were both unplugged me dunno...

I want to get this figured out because I noticed some other threads with people with the same problem but no answere, I'd like to be able to answer them for anyone who has the problem later on yanno?

and i still don't get it about the FPR.

my buddy' Randy's 1990 GS-T

255 Walbro Fuel Pump (Rewire)
Stock Injectors
Stock BOV (Crushed)
Stock WG (No Soleniod)
Intake (Open Air Box Stock Filter)
Stock FPR
14B Turbo @ 15 Psi
6-Bolt 4g63T Federal
Tubular Manifold
Stock Exhaust No Muffler
Boost Gauge
MBC
89-93 Oct Pump Gas <<< ?

My 1990 Laser RS-Turbo

255 Walbro Fuel Pump (Rewire)
Stock Injectors
Stock BOV (Crushed)
Stock WG (No Soleniod)
Intake (Open Air Box w\ K&N Filter)
Stock FPR
14B Turbo @ 15 psi
6-Bolt 4g63T Federal
Tubular Manifold
Stock Exhaust No Muffler
Boost Gauge
MBC
also 89-93 Oct Pump Gas

Same set up, don't understand why I'd have this problem and he wouldn't if it was because of me using stock FPR.

 

[stefanOst]

ADJUSTABLE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR.

DSM tuners members: asking for help and then not listening to suggestions since 2002.

It most definitely IS your problem...

Just because your friends car is fine running like that doesn't mean yours is, replace the fuel pressure regulator.

AFPR = adjustable fuel pressure regulator & FPR = fuel pressure regulator

Essentially your replacing the SAME part, whether you replace it with a fpr or afpr. Replacing your OEM fpr is just putting a band aid on a problem thats going to keep coming back. If you replace your OEM fpr with another OEM fpr then that 255 will overun it once again and leave you in the exact same place you are now. I said put on an afpr because you can spend the money ONCE and be done with it...

+1

Borrow a few bucks from a friend or something and buy a multimeter at an autozone or something, you can use it once to pull the code and return it to the store. If not, you are basically being stubborn and not listening to any help that is being offered to you.

 

[BlackMount]

+1

Borrow a few bucks from a friend or something and buy a multimeter at an autozone or something, you can use it once to pull the code and return it to the store. If not, you are basically being stubborn and not listening to any help that is being offered to you.

I am listening to help that's being offered but I am looking for other idea's and or theory's as to is going on.

 

[Jimmyskrew face]

no money to buy buzzer to pull code




1: Cant afford
2: Not my problem, friend with the same set up as me is running stock FPR on Stock Injectors on 255 FP @ 15 PSI boost and not having my issue.



No, Stock ECU, Stock Size- 450cc


EDIT: I can unplug both my O2 sensor, and my MAF sensor at the same time and run the car and the car will not change how it runs, the idle wont even budge from me doing that. It's not my ECU because my ECU came out of a running car.

Theres your problem.. Your not supposed to run a 255 pump on stock ecu on stock injectors , with a stock regulator .. Pull the pump out and put a stock one back in. If you had a 190 you can run it without a regulator but a 255 without any supporting mods your just hurting yourself and the motor. Here some info i picked up searching around.. http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195739&highlight=overrun This reminds me of the bov question" why does my car shut off or stall out when my bov isn't recirculated but my friends car doesn't" Your luck may not be the same as his..

 

[trevor425]

^x3
you dont need that pump, and cannot run it without an AFPR. its flow far exceeds the stock FPR hence the reason your pig rich.

 

[2slow4now]

I remember someone trying to make a stock fpr adjustable. If I can find it and post it that may be a cheap way for you to go.

I found it but doesn't sound really good. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/custom-fabrication/346146-turning-stock-fpr-into-afpr.html It could work or maybe throw around some other ideas at it besides I think it would be easy to find stock fpr used for cheap to experiment on.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

You will also want to change your oil now that is has been contaminated with fuel from you washing the cylinders down with gas. If you don't, I see a spun bearing in your future and that's not a cheap fix either.

It is possible it has something to do with the coolant temp sensor. But all of our guessing means literally NOTHING until you get that code checked. Rent the tool instead of buying it and go from there.

 

[BlackMount]

Theres your problem.. Your not supposed to run a 255 pump on stock ecu on stock injectors , with a stock regulator .. Pull the pump out and put a stock one back in. If you had a 190 you can run it without a regulator but a 255 without any supporting mods your just hurting yourself and the motor. Here some info i picked up searching around.. 255 with no AFPR - DSM Forums: Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser, and Eagle Talon Forum: DSMtalk.com This reminds me of the bov question" why does my car shut off or stall out when my bov isn't recirculated but my friends car doesn't" Your luck may not be the same as his..

it's not my problem because this just happend, and the pump was installed 20,000 miles ago. and this problem happend about 100 miles ago

and I will happily rent the tool if you send me the 50 some odd $$$ it will cost to rent it.

I litterally have no money, I cant even afford the 2$ buzzer from radioshack to check the code, what makes you think i can afford to rent a analog voltmeter.

 

[gofer]

so car's been running uber rich and CEL is on, last full tank of gas lasted 89 miles and that's keeping my foot out of it. I've replaced my MAF, ECU, O2 Sensor, Cam-AS, Coil Pack, Fairly new Walbro 255 Fuel Pump (20K or less), Plugs are 2k miles old, but I've been running very rich, but no missing so I'm sure they are fine.

it's not my problem because this just happend, and the pump was installed 20,000 miles ago. and this problem happend about 100 miles ago

what makes you think i can afford to rent a analog voltmeter.

By looking at the posted list of parts you replaced from just guessing what was wrong you wasted a ton of $$$ you could have used to fix the actual problem. You know OBD codes are used to point you in the right direction so the first thing you should have spent your cash on was something to read the code...

Whatever the case may be thats all in the past and you can't just make money appear... You can keep getting 80 miles on one tank of gas, which I'm sure gets expensive after a month of DD'ing, or you can get that CEL code pulled and actually fix your car.

 

[BlackMount]

By looking at the posted list of parts you replaced from just guessing what was wrong you wasted a ton of $$$ you could have used to fix the actual problem. You know OBD codes are used to point you in the right direction so the first thing you should have spent your cash on was something to read the code...

Whatever the case may be thats all in the past and you can't just make money appear... You can keep getting 80 miles on one tank of gas, which I'm sure gets expensive after a month of DD'ing, or you can get that CEL code pulled and actually fix your car.

Actually the Only thing I payed for was was the ECU and MAF, the ECU did fix my orginal problem, but another problem devoloped not long after. so I bought the MAF because the problem I had sounded like the MAF, and when I unplugged the MAF it didn't do anything different, so I figured my MAF took a shit.

all the other parts I got were just laying around, or a friend had laying around and gave me for free.


and Half the site tells me I cant run a 255 on stock FPR, but then I get guys running 255's on stock FPR just fine and only get overrun @ idle.

The car was running find not that long ago with that fuel pump so I'm crossing that out as my problem or saving it as a last resort fix.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

it's not my problem because this just happend, and the pump was installed 20,000 miles ago. and this problem happend about 100 miles ago

and I will happily rent the tool if you send me the 50 some odd $$$ it will cost to rent it.

It still could be. The stock FPR is not an unbreakable piece. They go out over time and even sooner if you are putting excess pressure on them. But IIRC normally that doesn't throw a code. But it would make you rich across the entire open and closed loop Maps. The car will attempt to lean itself out but there is only a small percentage of adjustment allowed.

Well you can also do some research for your area and see who offers a free ODBII scan. Some places do it. Also if there is a local board for your area, someone might already have a scan tool or know of a place that does them for free. If not, start begging to local auto shops saying that you are broke and need the car running right and the only thing you need is to get it scanned to see what CEL code it's throwing. Another option is to try local schools. Some might have an Auto shop course of which they may have a scan tool on hand. Right down the code and then research here what it means.

 

[BlackMount]

Pulled the Codes, but Not 100% sure if I did it right...

so far what I came up with is

#12 - Air Flow Sensor (I was told when I went to see about a shop pulling the codes, the guy said the first code i should see is 12 but ignore it or something like that? make sense?
#13 - Intake Air Temp Sensor
#21 - Engine Coolant Sensor

I'm assuming the "Air Flow Sensor" is my MAF because there is no Mass Air Flow or anything like that listed in my Repair Manual, and where is the Intake Air Temp Sensor?

and it must have something to do with my Harness because my old MAF may still be good, and my new MAF came off a Running car. I bought it from a guy who was upgrading to 2G MAS. Is there a Relay or Fuse that I should check for the MAF or any of those sensors?


anyone got some tips on reading the codes with Pieazo buzzer? just So I know I'm doing it right?

 

[knochgoon24]

#12 and #13 were probably tripped when you unplugged your MAF to see if it caused it to run different.

#21 is your coolant sensor. If it took a crap, it will mess up your fueling because the car will never enter closed loop.

Since you aren't entering closed loop, you car can't use the fuel trims to correct for you over running your stock FPR, so you're finally seeing the car run rich like none other.

Replace you coolant temperature sensor. It's a $15 part.
Then save enough money to buy a AFPR, a used one if you are tight on cash.

 

[jeffo]

#21 is your problem. I guessed that after reading your first post. The wiring to the coolant sensor always gets hard and brittle, making a bad connection, so the ECU thinks the car is always -40*, so it runs VERY rich. Check out the wires to the 2-prong coolant sensor at the thermostat.

 

[BlackMount]

#3 and #4 were probably tripped when you unplugged your MAF to see if it caused it to run different.

#6 is your coolant sensor. If it took a crap, it will mess up your fueling because the car will never enter closed loop.

Since you aren't entering closed loop, you car can't use the fuel trims to correct for you over running your stock FPR, so you're finally seeing the car run rich like none other.

Replace you coolant temperature sensor. It's a $15 part.
Then save enough money to buy a AFPR, a used one if you are tight on cash.

#21 is your problem. I guessed that after reading your first post. The wiring to the coolant sensor always gets hard and brittle, making a bad connection, so the ECU thinks the car is always -40*, so it runs VERY rich. Check out the wires to the 2-prong coolant sensor at the thermostat.

Now that's the helpful info I was looking for.

Thanks guys; I'm gonna re pull codes to see if anything else is making my ECU go WTF.

EDIT: The only other code I came across was #25 which is Barometric Sensor...wtf is that? I've never heard of it before, and where is it???