Billet 4G63 Blocks

[slowgsr]

honda's use aluminum blocks, miller from nrg tech has made 1250whp on gas and a 72mm turbo with no spray. Id say aluminum is strong enough. Especially a billet unit.

 

[T is for TURBO]

honda's use aluminum blocks, miller from nrg tech has made 1250whp on gas and a 72mm turbo with no spray. Id say aluminum is strong enough. Especially a billet unit.

While I agree with you that aluminum is strong enough, wheel horse power is not always a good way to determine the strength of a block, especially in a Honda where torque is generally lower.

To be honest though, most blocks break due to a failure somewhere else. Such as a rod breaking, poor assembly, or poor lubrication. Not too often do they break because the cylinder pressure is too great. Yes, it happens, but more often than not, is going to break because something else broke. Or the tuner really f-ed up.

 

[jrohner]

Some blocks ARE known for cracking in certain places.

 

[RipperXX]

Now thats hardcore right thur.

 

[donniekak]

honda's use aluminum blocks, miller from nrg tech has made 1250whp on gas and a 72mm turbo with no spray. Id say aluminum is strong enough. Especially a billet unit.

They are sleeved. Why go through the trouble of making an aluminum block stronger with iron sleeves, when you already have an iron block? I think these will be great for the guy's who have factory aluminun blocks. The only 4g63 people i see using these are road race/tt, where the weight savings, and mostly cooling will be of use.

 

[RipperXX]

Not just that, but in a road race car/circuit, since our cars are so front heavy, it would help balance the car.

 

[jrohner]

But who's going to spend thousands to save probably 20 pounds or less.

 

[RipperXX]

*shrug*






But someone is going to stick one in something... would be awesome in a FD, S2000, Datsun Z etc. If I had the money, I would want one.

 

[gixrman]

I would want to see this offered in a larger displacement, why the 63 and not the 64 which shouldn't be a problem with bigger sleeves and offer it with BC's 2.6 kit or make a 2.8 kit.....mmmm. A 4 banger a$$ sucking TQ monster with a fat, broad, TQ curve. They should market it that way. That I would be interested in.

 

[RipperXX]

Isn't the engine in the starion a 2.8?

 

[whe3ls]

its a 2.6l at least in the usdm's

 

[4SFED4]

I like the concept, but the cost and options available are what concerns me.
If provisions for 1G motor mounts are machined into the block and the bell housing has different trans patterns, you should be able to use it for any app provided the deck oil drain ports are the same as a 95 up 4G64 and EVO. People still wanting to run DSM heads just block the extra 5 ports and they are ready to go. The question would then be what generation oil pump cover to use?

The only issue I see is it will not resolve cylinder head sealing problems. There are still only 10 studs to secure the head. In other applications like small and big block chevys an aftermarket cylinder head is developed and extra head mounting points are added for increased clamping force. It would be awesome to have an aftermarket head with extra mounting provisions, have higher flowing EVO VIII/IX style ports and still retro fit older blocks. Although I agree with above posts that the market would not support the time and cost of such options.

 

[Rob10_99]

These would be marketed twards the 1/4 mile people, so low end of a stroker has no bearing on buying power. So that makes anything over say 2.1L irrelevant. Sure, I'd like to have seen a car like a starion with a 3L engine, straight 6 compete as a cheap supra. Wth was mitsu thinking when the starion went away and the rx7/supra took over? wtf.

 

[donniekak]

These would be marketed twards the 1/4 mile people, so low end of a stroker has no bearing on buying power. So that makes anything over say 2.1L irrelevant. Sure, I'd like to have seen a car like a starion with a 3L engine, straight 6 compete as a cheap supra. Wth was mitsu thinking when the starion went away and the rx7/supra took over? wtf.

The starquest was the last mitsu rwd car. After that a decision was made to make all cars based on a fwd platform.

 

[tkelly27]

Good for RWD people? Yeah, perfect for the people too dumb to have a $500 bell housing made for them.

There was a big debate over aluminum vs cast iron cylinder heads when they first started coming out in the V8 world. A magazine did a dyno test and the aluminum heads were up by 3-4hp on a 400hp engine. They were a slightly better design though.

The truth is, the thermostat and cooling system determine how much heat is removed from the system. In both aluminum and cast iron, the thermal resistance is so low and the amount of time the charge spends in contact with the cylinder walls so low that it has little effect when compared to the gallons of water circulating through out the system.

So why the hoopla about aluminum blocks? Weight is one issue, but as discussed, there is so much other BS in cars today that it hardly makes any difference. All the weight lost from an Al block is made up by the extra 3 speakers/enclosures and navigation/mp3 hard drive in the trunk. The most important part is that it is very easy to machine compared to a cast iron block. So much easier that even requiring the sleeves that have to be machined separately it is cost effective.

I trip over nearly the same block that rau and shep use to go 6's and 7's every time I go to the junkyard. Lets say every 6 bolt 4g block from every hyundai, mitsu, and dsm were to vanish. That still leaves all the 7 bolts, whose cylinder block is just as strong as the 6 bolts. Look at the EVO's making 1xxxhp. There is no point to a billet block. I'm sure someone will buy it, just to have it.

 

[jrohner]

The difference between a 2.0 block and a 2.4 is deck height, and the STOCK bore is 1.5mm bigger in the 2.4. You can still bore out the 2.0, and I would hope this block would have enough meat to bore it out. If you're going for weight savings, a higher deck height would be kind of backwards.

When I was talking to Brent Rau, it sounded like when boring the 4g63 out big, the problem is that the cylinders get too close together, making the headgasket not hold up as well. He made it sound like this starts to be an issue by .080" overbore (2mm).

 

[4SFED4]

I think the weight of 6mm of deck is less than the full skirted bottom end it appears to be designed with. The longer bottom half also poses an issue for oil pan clearance.

Personally I would rather see a reproduction cast iron 6 bolt block with optional deck heights and a standard, square 86mm bore. Every 4G63 I have had machined had a tapered bore and it takes removing almost .5mm(.020") to square the bore. The deck height would be a feasible option since is offered on aftermarket V8 blocks and should be easier and cheaper since 4G63s only have one deck surface. Also instead of skirting the block down, a 7 bolt style main cap/girdle could be manufactured.

Since I am on the wish list:
Why not manufacture a reproduction cylinder head with small ports in a raw casting like the OEMs do for NASCAR. Then custom port designs and valve angles could dramatically improve flow. However it would be costly for all the R&D.