Best Internals?

[92Talon251]

I am considering rebuilding my motor possably. I am wandering if anyone can offer me advice on which internals are the best as far as quality, price, and how well they hold up under mid to high boost ranges (15 - 20 PSI). I want to keep the car as a daily driver so i dont want to go to extreme something like 8.5 to 1 compression ratio. Some guy around here told me that a good duo would be 2g pistons and 1 g rods any ideas ?

 

[My96AWD]

thats a good choice but you have to get the rods machined to fit the pistons (100-150 at machine shop) or you could go with eagle rods and ross pistons or wiesco pistons both are good choices for the street. i would opt for the eagle and ross or wiesco. but thats just me i like to plan ahead. i've never used the wiescos but i hear really good things about them

 

[me612]

eagle/ross and eagle/wiseco combo is pretty popular. The 1g rod and 2g piston combo is an option as well. If you really plan on driving this thing hard and boosting at a high psi level, then I'd recommend forged internals. But if it's just your daily driver that sees the track only a few times a year, then you will probably be just fine with the 2g/1g combo. best of luck to you!

 

[heavyD]

Arias pistons/Eagle rods

 

[BUCK]

I want to keep the car as a daily driver so i dont want to go to extreme something like 8.5 to 1 compression ratio. Some guy around here told me that a good duo would be 2g pistons and 1 g rods any ideas ?

Be careful what "some guy" tells you - Stick with 1G Pistons & Rods - If you like the NC Mountains you DEFINITELY need to stick with 1G Pistons & Rods - Properly tuned it'll run great with a 2G Exhaust Manifold & BSE Kit. Good link to a Compression chart below...

http://www.dsmgrrrl.com/FAQs/compression.htm

 

[me612]

2g pistons are 8.5:1 compression ratio. If you don't know who to believe, then visit any dsm vendors site who sells them. You can find forged internals with that same compression ratio. 8.5:1 will be just fine for you if you're still a beginner at a lot of this.

 

[heavyD]

Be careful what BUCK tells you. You want to at least go with the 2G pistons/1G rod combo over the 1G pistons/1G rods even if you have to machine the rods. Using 2G (8.5 to 1)pistons will help your 1G engine feel almost as responsive as a 2G 4G63.

 

[boostedinaz]

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

2g pistons are 8.5:1 compression ratio. If you don't know who to believe, then visit any dsm vendors site who sells them. You can find forged internals with that same compression ratio. 8.5:1 will be just fine for you if you're still a beginner at a lot of this.

I think what Buck was getting at is they may be 8.5 out of the box, but once youhave machien work done they may be more. Once the block is decked and the head is machined for a good surface they may be closer to 9.0. Just my .02

I would stay with a big rod and 2g pistons if it were my car.

Michael

 

[me612]

I do see what you're getting at. With a freshly decked block and head, he would be able to run a mitsu metal 4layer gasket without a problem. I'm assuming those are thicker, so would that bump his compression down to the 8.5 range he's aiming for, or are they no thicker then the composite ones?

Also find it kinda strange though how he said they are not 8.5:1, yet links to a page that clearly states they are.

 

[BUCK]

Also find it kinda strange though how he said they are not 8.5:1, yet links to a page that clearly states they are.

Last edited by BUCK : Today at 11:50 AM. Reason: corrected my post, thanx me612

- If you were to look you'd see I editted my mistake & gave the Reason...
- thanked you for pointing my error out...
- added the Link to put it to bed...

& I still think if he's into "daily driving" in the Mountains of NC he should go conservative on Comp ratio.

 

[92Talon251]

Thanks guys got some great feedback, also I dont live in the NC mountains I live more toward the beach. I am about 100 miles inland from the coast so there is not many hills around here. kinda a toss up between eagle internals or 2g pistons and 1g rods is there ant differance in the material the rods are made out of ?

 

[me612]

Last edited by BUCK : Today at 11:50 AM. Reason: corrected my post, thanx me612

- If you were to look you'd see I editted my mistake & gave the Reason...

Hey honest mistake man, happens to us all. Anywho, here's my input yet again for you 92Talon251. Like they are saying you will most likely be more then happy with stock internals. Only thing though is this. You already have 1g rods, but like someone said earlier, you will have to machine them to fit on 2g pistons if you go that route. Lets say a shop charges you 100 bux to do this machining on your pistons (100 I'd say is pretty conservative, local shop in my town charges 200). So 100 there, then the 2g pistons and rings are going to run you around 320 or so. So 420 right. For around 670, you could brand new Ross forged pistons and Scat h-beam rods. For the extra 250 bux, I'd personally go for the forged ones just for the sense of security. But do what you want, your call, you'll be happy either way. Good luck

 

[temfate]

Not to mention for about the same price as a new set of 2g pistons machined to fit 1g rods you can buy a set of the Wiseco 8.5:1's that fit the 1g rods perfectly with no machining. That's what I plan to get when I get around to my rebuild.

 

[boostedinaz]

Here is my extra bit for you to chew on.

Most people just look at the money issue. This is X amount and the better one is X amount plus 30.00 bucks. Well that is great and all but you have to look at the whole picture. Most people think they need forged internals for there big bad ass motor. They end up running a 50 trim at best and smaller amounts of boost. They never use that to its full potential but its cool to say you have a built bottom end. It also takes more maintenance to keep up a forged short block than one weith cast or hyper-eutectic (sp) pistons. Plus if the machien work isnt done properly then you may have weird stuff happen here and there. Most of the time it will be piston slap when you first start the motor.

I am nto trying to start a flame war os say that no one needs a forged botton end. I am saying that for the most part a big rod 2G piston combo is just fine for most people and most street driven cars.

Michael

 

[me612]

1g/2g build will work fine for your applications yes. I'd still go with forged, but that's because I tend to plan ahead.

Here's a link to a good forged vs. stock debate

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16312&page=4&pp=25&highlight=melt+forged

 

[heavyD]

If you rebuild your bottom end with forged internals and have piston slap it is because the machinist and builder did a poor job. I have eagle rods and arias racing pistons and have ZERO piston slap at any engine temperature. Sometimes I just get tired of the myths that people continue to pass as advise.

 

[me612]

OK now that depends on the application. More clearance is advised for people running more of a race only platform. That greater clearance is likely to cause slap on startup for a brief moment. They sacrafice piston slap at warm up for being able to run extreme boost and nitrous levels, but we won't get into that here since we're talkin 20psi. For yours or my application, then yes it's very feesable to run a forged setup without any slap. Just a matter of getting the clearances right. Again why a good machinist is key.

BTW what false information, or myth as you called it, has been passed here?

 

[heavyD]

OK now that depends on the application. More clearance is advised for people running more of a race only platform. That greater clearance is likely to cause slap on startup for a brief moment. They sacrafice piston slap at warm up for being able to run extreme boost and nitrous levels, but we won't get into that here since we're talkin 20psi. For yours or my application, then yes it's very feesable to run a forged setup without any slap. Just a matter of getting the clearances right. Again why a good machinist is key.

BTW what false information, or myth as you called it, has been passed here?

The myth is "if you use forged internals you WILL get piston slap" (which no one has stated in this particular thread but everytime there is a thread regarding forged internals, someone has to bring up "piston slap") most of the people on this forum use their car on the street as well so a full race only application is for they guys that pull their car on a trailer back and forth from the track. I have heard this alot, so much in fact that when I sent in my block, head, forged pistons & rods to the machine shop I asked them about piston slap and they laughed at me and said "don't worry son, we do good work here".