Best Bolt-on turbo with pump gas for most power?

[Boosted98gsx]

If you want quick spool, stay away from journal bearing turbos. There is no journal bearing turbo that can match spool characteristics of a ball bearing turbo, airflow for airflow.

Again, my 3582r HTA produces (in a .82 a/r turbine) + manifold pressure at 2200 rpm, and makes 20psi by 4200. It's a low end torque monster of a turbo on my 2.3, and I definitely don't have a low volume charge pipe by any means on my car.

 

[ZenkaiRacerDsM]

None of these suggestions really sound like pump gas turbos. Won't these goliaths still be asleep at the low boost levels required by pump gas?

 

[Boosted98gsx]

None of these suggestions really sound like pump gas turbos. Won't these goliaths still be asleep at the low boost levels required by pump gas?

Depends on the VE of the engine.

 

[BigBeans]

None of these suggestions really sound like pump gas turbos. Won't these goliaths still be asleep at the low boost levels required by pump gas?

No.

As stated, the FP3052 is a great pump gas turbo.

Spool is good, lag isn't too bad, and its somewhat awake in the low-mid 20psi range on pump gas.

My car is making great power with a 3052 on pump fuel with 23psi. With higher boost, a SMIM and meth, the goal is 500whp on a DD tune. Great street turbo for a prepped car

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Well, here's some of the stuff I've read just in one thread over on Talk about a few different BW turbo's. Really good power #'s and overall results with some pump gas. This is the sort of stuff I'm talkin about.

SpendOne

I have ran a best of 10.8@133 on mine with the tires blowing off and out of injector. This was on 32 psi. I actually just took my car to the track again tonight. I had the boost set at 23 psi b/c of the fuel issue and it went 11.3@128 with traction problems once again.

I am still on a stock 1g 6-bolt motor with ARP headstuds, FP2 cams, and a stock intake mani. Stock drivetrain aside from 4-spider center diff and ACT2900 clutch. I see full boost at 5k rpms and I wind my car out to about 8500. This is on a T3 .70 a/r housing.

I am running 1000's. My IDC's are at 93% right now on 93 pump gas with 23 psi. I cant seem to find my timeslip for the 10.8 but here is the one from last night. I blow the tires off through 1st and 2nd gear. My whole idea is to run this car with as many stock parts as possible. The car probably weights in at about 3250-3300 with me in it. The car is also ran on pep boys all season tires (nothing special). I used to cut 1.5 60's with drag radials but as I said I want the car as stock appearing as possible visually. This car is only ran on pump gas only.

60' - 2.136
330 - 5.029
1/8 - 7.480
mph - 101.36
1000 - 9.608
1/4 - 11.386
mph - 128.58

To answer your question...I think it definitely has the potential to rev out to 9k plus. When I shift, the car still wants to go but I have floated valves before and would not rather go through it again. During the pass posted I was shifting the car at 7800 rpms to keep it pretty safe. There was no timing in the car as well. It was only seeing maybe 10 degrees total timing at 6k+ rpms. If there is anymore questions Id be glad to answer them.

Steve93Talon

I made 479whp uncorrected on 93 with the S258 .70 setup on stock engine/intake mani with FP2s. The car was squirrelly through the whole pass on a cold track. Drag radials aren't a bad idea if you're running anything faster than high 11s. I think the 259 will be more than enough for your goals though.

That was about 28psi. I was still on stock head bolts so I didn't want to push it. I ended up blowing the head gasket at the track shortly after and when I pulled the head found that the car had a fel-pro composite POS on it. I would've loved to run 32-34psi on a fresh gasket and some L19s, but the trans was having issues going into gear at 7500+, and I decided to part the car and move on.

Another data point, a friend of mine recently switched from an HX40 bolt-on to an S362 with the divided .76 hotside and GV twin scroll T3 mani. On a baseline pull at gate pressure, saw full boost (about 1 bar) by just over 3k! Twin scroll rocks!

<-----Holy crap!!!!

Me612

Here's a vid with my dyno graph at the end if that helps. This is an S362 .70AR on a 2.0 with HKS 272's, and JMF SMIM. I was seeing 28psi by around 4800, 30psi by around 5000, and 35psi by around 5200. I made that power on 35psi, which tapered to 32psi by 8k, which may be partially responsible for the power dropping off at the end. Need to get a second spring in my WG someday.

Also please keep in mind the dyno in use is a Dyno Dynamics, which tend to read around 15% lower then a Dyno Jet.

Hopefully this will be a little helpful.

YouTube - S362 Talon Dyno @ DB Performance

11secdsm

To update this thread with S362 dyno results, I made 520whwp/414ft lbs on a low reading Mustang dyno on 93 pump (no meth). We're VERY happy with the results and should be getting to the track as soon as the rain stops.

This was on the stock Evo IX ECU and MAF.

29psi / pump gas

 

[crazyquik22023]

I've heard good things about the Borg Warners, so if your gonna go with that id go with the S362, from what i've heard good power and not bad spool. As for my personal opinion, id go with PTE. I have a PTE 6262 and i couldn't be happier with it. In think it is a perfectly streetable turbo and can do some BIG numbers on the dyno..

 

[dsm-onster]

If you want quick spool, stay away from journal bearing turbos. There is no journal bearing turbo that can match spool characteristics of a ball bearing turbo, airflow for airflow.

Again, my 3582r HTA produces (in a .82 a/r turbine) + manifold pressure at 2200 rpm, and makes 20psi by 4200. It's a low end torque monster of a turbo on my 2.3, and I definitely don't have a low volume charge pipe by any means on my car.

Why do you keep saying this???? Gt3076r direcly swapped to the hx40. No other alteration to the setup. 52lb/min turbo vs. 68lb/min turbo. Look at the spool/power-band of the journal bearing turbo over the ball bearing turbo of smaller size and lesser airflow. 700hp turbo with a better powerband than a 550hp turbo. And for more redunancy, it was able to hold higher boost and thus make 150whp more on the same dyno with the same tuner.

The e3 16g spools about as fast as the gt28RS (disco potato). But has a larger compressor map and compressor flow. And clearly the e3 16g has been pushed ALOT farther; thus the turbine flow is there. You can make 400whp with one relatively easy. You're sitting WAY outside the gt28RS map at that level.

There's alot more to building boost quickly than tackling the drag of the bearing structure. You 'took fluids', you should know this. Go back to Dynamics of Pumps. A turbine wheel that is more efficient takes less energy to spin the shaft. That means the shaft sees higher rpms at lower exhaust flows; earlier boost threshold. As well a compressor that see higher efficiency where you're spooling means that less energy is wasted as heat and more compresses the aircharge; earlier boost threshold.

With that said, OP, look at how broadly efficient the BW compressor wheels are. And if you want to see their efficiency on the turbine side you're looking at the right place when you're looking at spool time vs. power output relative to other similar setups with other turbos. Boosted98gsx has a stroker and still doesn't see 20psi before 4200rpms. All that money invested and a crappy tune so bad it slows his spool? A .63 a/r housing would save about 300-400rpms based on similar setups. 20psi by 3900rpms with a stroker with a .63 a/r housing would put you at 20psi with a 2.0L at about 4500rpms. Thats with a housing that likely will not let you see the full potential of the turbo. So you end up choking the turbo to see decent boost before 4500rpms . . . OR you can look at some wheels that are more efficient, like you are now.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

I've heard good things about the Borg Warners, so if your gonna go with that id go with the S362, from what i've heard good power and not bad spool. As for my personal opinion, id go with PTE. I have a PTE 6262 and i couldn't be happier with it. In think it is a perfectly streetable turbo and can do some BIG numbers on the dyno..

I think I just about have it narrowed down between the S362 and the 366. Reading that some people have really quick spool with a divided T3 housing so may go that route. Don't see many people running that housing for whatever reason though. Not sure why.

 

[dsm-onster]

Don't see many people running that housing for whatever reason though. Not sure why.

Many think twinscroll tech is just hype .

 

[Steve93Talon]

Alot of people also don't want to pay $1k for a tubular manifold, plus the money for the 2nd gate and dumptube. It's WELL worth it though. I won't own another turbo setup that isn't twin scroll. My EVO sees 25psi by 3k flat and makes 400whp on straight pump 93.

 

[delta448]

If budget doesn't matter and you don't care about keeping the parts you've already acquired, a twin scroll is definitely the best option here for spool vs flow. But it seems to me that you have no idea what you really want out of the car.

DSMers love to debate on turbos and I'm guilty too. But you should look more at the rest of the decisions and just pick a brand you like with the spool speed you can accept. You'll have plenty more disappointment from lag than not reaching astronomical whp levels with a street driven car. How much power do you need in your pocket when you drive around town? Pump gas goal = street oriented car. Is 500awhp not enough to illegally double any highway speed limits? Forget about hitting full boost anywhere else, it's just too dangerous to let all 500+whp out of the bag when you're in a crowded 45mph or less zone.

I'd like to point out the obvious in the fact that performance is going to be quite dependent on the quality of the tune. If you're so worried about making the most power possible on the quickest spooling turbo, don't cheap out on any vital performance parts, and do invest in the services of a top notch tuner. Like one that has tuned DSMs into the single digit ET range on the kind of fuel you'll be using, or one that's made a point shy of 500awhp on a comparatively small E316G.

 

[JusMX141]

Why do you keep saying this????

Because all DSMers can afford $1700 turbos, and FP is the only company who builds turbos worth owning.

Apparently you weren't at class that day, Matt.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

If budget doesn't matter and you don't care about keeping the parts you've already acquired, a twin scroll is definitely the best option here for spool vs flow. But it seems to me that you have no idea what you really want out of the car.

I wouldn't really say that I don't know what I want out of the car. In my 1st post I mentioned 3 things. Something that'll fit, spool, and as much power as I can get on pump gas. Wanna have the best all around turbo that'll do all those things. If it fits and I have good spool but power sucks, then I don't want it. Take out any of those 3 things and you can pretty much cross it out for a choice. As for the parts I've acquired, none are turbo related such as the manifold, etc. The stock manifold is going. The exhaust will be a side exhaust so it'll be custom anyway. Only reason I was even LOOKING at bolt-on turbo's is because I figured the T3 and T4 turbos would spool too dang slow and didn't wanna have any fitment issues. When I had my T-67, it was a T3 with a tubular manifold and nothing really fit well and was a total pain to get in there and spool sucked balls on a 2.0. But I've definitely been reading, and doing a lot of it. Bout the only thing I've been doing when I'm not at work actually. So yeah, hours of reading. My girlfriend has even said before that she thinks my car is more important to me than her.

DSMers love to debate on turbos and I'm guilty too. But you should look more at the rest of the decisions and just pick a brand you like with the spool speed you can accept.

That's the whole point of this thread. Lol. I'm looking for the best turbo that won't spool terribly but still be a good turbo with lots of power.

You'll have plenty more disappointment from lag than not reaching astronomical whp levels with a street driven car. How much power do you need in your pocket when you drive around town? Pump gas goal = street oriented car. Is 500awhp not enough to illegally double any highway speed limits? Forget about hitting full boost anywhere else, it's just too dangerous to let all 500+whp out of the bag when you're in a crowded 45mph or less zone.

I'm not stupid enough to go wot in a 500+ car with a lot of traffic around. But it's nice to have the power when I race. And I DO go to the track and I DO use racing fuel when I go. But if I can't enjoy it on the street as well, then what's the point? I don't wanna enjoy the car only on the street. We just don't have E85 around here though. Like I said, I want as much power as I can get. That's the goal. But 6's in the 1/8th mile (cause that's all we have around here regarding tracks) would definitely put a smile on my face. I've already hit my goal of 7's in the 1/8th, so time to move on to the next goal of 6's.

I'd like to point out the obvious in the fact that performance is going to be quite dependent on the quality of the tune. If you're so worried about making the most power possible on the quickest spooling turbo, don't cheap out on any vital performance parts, and do invest in the services of a top notch tuner. Like one that has tuned DSMs into the single digit ET range on the kind of fuel you'll be using, or one that's made a point shy of 500awhp on a comparatively small E316G.

I'm not trying to cheap out on ANYTHING on this car. I've seen so many dsm'ers do that around here or take short cuts and half ass their cars, or cars I've bought that were that way already and it always kicks them in the ass and they whine about dsm's being junk. That won't be me. And I hear what you're saying about the tune but I do wanna try and build as much of this car on my own and tune it as much as I possibly can cause I really like taking pride in my work and my abilities. And I do appreciate everyone's opinions greatly. Good and the bad. If it wasn't for the hours and hours and hours of research that I've done on this forum alone and help from others on here, I wouldn't know anywhere near the amount of stuff that I know today. But if I don't ask, I won't know, and I like hearing feedback from those who already know.

 

[this_tsi_8urV8]

I have an S362ET bolt-on, and you do have to crush the water pipe a good amount, depth wise and width wise.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

What manifold are you going with? Do you have a. Bolt-on turbine housing? I think I'll be going with a divided T3 housing and topmount manifold. I don't wanna skimp out so I've decided to splurge and do it all the right way.

 

[MrPikolo]

FP68hta. Lucas is running 10s on it in race form. I'm sure you can easily run mid to high 7s in the 1/8 with it on pump and high 6s on race. What is your best 1/8mile to date?

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Best was a 7.797 on my last dsm with an E16g. I'd like to be hitting high 6's at LEAST.

Decided to go with a BW S366 ET in a divided T3 .76 a/r housing with a topmount manifold. I've seen enough people running big horsepower numbers on 93 octane with good spool numbers, and good et's at the track with it but in a larger a/r and undivided housing. So sure a smaller housing would net even quicker spool. And yes, I'm gonna be running a topmopunt manifold. I'm splurging a lil bit more than I had originally planned on and will take a bit longer to finish my setup but I think it'll be worth it in the end.

Trying to buy my drag smim in about a week or so and then finish up the fuel mods and the throttle body. Once I'm done with that, the turbo, manifold, and dual wastegates will be next.

 

[dsm-onster]

Excellent turbo!!! Great choice in setup. Ultimately, maintiaining high performance with a sense of streetability has little to do with "bolton-ability" and more with your decisions for where you alter your setup. The twinscroll route is the ideal route for streetability while maintaining a very high level of performance. It's a little like cheating.

FP68hta. Lucas is running 10s on it in race form. I'm sure you can easily run mid to high 7s in the 1/8 with it on pump and high 6s on race. What is your best 1/8mile to date?

When others consistantly run 10s with an evo3 16g like he has done, then they can look at this turbo as an option. Otherwise, realistically, most see low 11s with the fpgreen/50-trim/20g/hx35/s256 turbos. Which all are bigger. If he had a larger turbo and his same skillset in setting the car up for the turbo/goal, it would easily eclipse such numbers he's already seen. No question. Let's look at the big picture here and not just individual successes by very accomplished and talented individual.

 

[JusMX141]

Decided to go with a BW S366 ET in a divided T3 .76 a/r housing with a topmount manifold.

Excellent turbo!!!

x2....definitely a good choice.

Ricky (dacowgod) recently swapped one of these in place of his HX40 and he's logging 70+ lb/min at 31.5psi.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Thanks guys. I guess I'll get around to posting results when I have them. It'll be a little while though. Trying to get my JMF smim and fuel mods 1st but I at least know what my goal and mod list will consist of.

 

[Daiboro]

Is this post dead? Come on! I wanted to know about the numbers that you got

 

[JusMX141]

Is this post dead?

Obviously- hence the 2.5-year separation between the last post made here and yours.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Doesn't look dead now though. Lol.

 

[danl]

Hta spec fp green, 54lbs/min and great spool.

/thread

 

[turboglenn]

i can't sing enough praise to the holsets i've done (machined my own t3 housing to make it bolt on for my car) and have dfone them for others with great feedback from the owners... that said, holset with BEP or other bolt on housing is better spooling for the high power i've gotten and seen here and other places than anything i've ran before o for that matter heard of that wasn't some expensive hybrid ball bearing turbo and still then i haven't seen anything blow h holsets out of the water so to speak when combining both fast spool and total HP and tq figures relative to that spool time... I was saving my BB 50 trim, now i'm totally down to sell it since having the holset on for a year come january 26th 2013 :woot: