Bargain Basement Big Brakes

[wortdog]

WretWortdog,

Here a quick question, any confirmation that the Master cylinder from the vr4 will fit, the eclipse booster?. Cause on my 1g, I was looking, it looks like the body my fit, but I would have to adapt the current resovoirs [ which are mounted off to the side] to the 3000gt M/C body..not even sure this could work....Just a question, this is becoming more appealing by the day, so I am doing some initial investigations into it...becuase if this can be done, its a GO!!!

From what I've read, the only differences between the VR-4 master cylinder and the DSM one are the reservoirs and one of the lines. They should bolt up identically to the booster.

There's also a lot of information on yet another VR-4 brake swap on this page:
http://www.wideopenwest.com/~ksmith3289/faq/bigbrakes/3kgtvr4brakes.html

 

[grans0o]

How well do you think Evo VIII rotors would work?

 

[wret]

How well do you think Evo VIII rotors would work?

The reference I have puts them slightly larger (320mm), slightly thicker (32mm), and less height (42mm), compared to the already hard to fit 3000gt rotors. Given that and the high cost, I would stay away from them.

 

[grans0o]

Eh, you can get a set for about 150 dollars on ebay that are barely used.

 

[Phatblackhatch]

Thanks for the info guys, you guys have me going crazy, I am looking in to the rav 4 / mustang setup that (kyle) is in that link. I am staying 3kgt on the fronts though. I need to go put the car on a lift now, and inspect closley. Hmmm I wonder.
Oh yeah, I got a 3kgt master cylinder yesterday 1 1/16...so the only thing left is rotors and spacers for the fronts....., when its all done I will let you guys know how it turned out.
and then move to the rear

 

[Agent11br]

WRET - I was curious as to whether or not you fitted on the 3kGT rear setup and what rotor/pad combo you went with there and the bracket used.

I just wanted to say that I have subscribed to this thread since the beginning and have found the discussion thus far to be great information and well thought out. Its good to see such a great idea actually being applied and discussed thoroughly and "cleanly". (if that is even a word)

Looking forward to more updates/information/results!

 

[wret]

The rear calipers that came with the used set I bought are 1-piston and not much different in appearance than stock though I have not compared the piston sizes. I may eventually research available rear rotor sizes but for now it's behind a few other projects in order of priority.

Short term test report: Smooth controlled braking in normal daily usage. No detectable difference in pedal feel under normal braking but not much additional effort is required for full lock-up (ABS style). I haven't put them through any extreme testing, but there is a local autocross event coming up in a couple weeks.

I'd be happy to see someone else try this mod. My intension was to make it affordable, repeatable and safe.

 

[wortdog]

I actually just went through a 100-mile track day at Gingerman and had no problems at all with my brake setup. Or the whole rest of the car, for that matter, even though it has about 173k miles on it. I've since upgraded to stainless lines and Carbotech Panther XP8's. The pedal feel is much better, and braking at the track was ridiculous. My instructor kept trying to get me to brake later and later, but I didn't quite have the gumption to brake at the last braking marker when doing 115mph.

 

[Turbo Shogun]

Wort - What kind of stainless lines did you use? Were they the replacement SS lines for 1G AWDs? I just got a set from RRE to fit my twin-piston setup, and I was wondering if they would fit/reach the 4pots.

Also, might be a bit off topic, but once my car gets running, I'd love to check yours out should they have another track day around the area.

 

[wortdog]

Not sure if I'll be making any more track days soon, but I'll let you know if so.

To answer your question, yes, I'm just using standard 1G AWD stainless lines. The stock 1G AWD rubber lines worked fine as well.

 

[Turbo Shogun]

If anyone wants to do the conversion, there's a set on e-Bay for $200.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...tem=7984798257&category=33563&sspagename=WDVW

It ends in 4 hours (it's 6:02 Central where I'm at), but maybe the guy will relist it or something. Wish I could have seen those before I did my twin-piston setup.

 

[qwklil4]

Im really wanting to do this, and found a nice stealth TT at the local yard but does anyone know or have seen someone with these brakes on the stock 1g AWD 16's? These ones, http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=52578&size=big&password=&sort=2&cat=501

 

[wortdog]

I doubt that stock 1g wheels will fit, but I do know that some of the 16" 3000GT wheels fit over the 1G TT rotors and calipers.

 

[Phatblackhatch]

Wortdog, Im back with more questions..... heres what i gathered so far:

VR4TT m/c
mach V brake booster brace
94 TT stealth calipers

anyway If I have 2g tt calipers. can I run the 1gTT rotors...and get away with 3000gt 16's? I dont mind running the slightly smaller rotors...no that much track use anyway..

BTW, my VR4 17's just came yesterday ...needless to say, how sad I was to find out i could have gotten the 16's..., oh well winter and summer wheels... ..Also you think I could get away with 225/45/17 without spacers..the tires on those bad boys are 245/45/17

 

[wortdog]

Wortdog, Im back with more questions..... heres what i gathered so far:

VR4TT m/c
mach V brake booster brace
94 TT stealth calipers

anyway If I have 2g tt calipers. can I run the 1gTT rotors...and get away with 3000gt 16's? I dont mind running the slightly smaller rotors...no that much track use anyway..

BTW, my VR4 17's just came yesterday ...needless to say, how sad I was to find out i could have gotten the 16's..., oh well winter and summer wheels... ..Also you think I could get away with 225/45/17 without spacers..the tires on those bad boys are 245/45/17

Well, if you're willing to run 17's all the time, you can just buy these brackets: http://www.electronicauto.com/products/2gttbrakeconversion/brackets.htm

With those, you could buy the 2g TT rotors to go with your 2g TT calipers and have a bolt on setup with the 3000GT 17's. I have no idea if you can get the 2g TT calipers to work with a 1g TT rotor, making a bracket for that would be fairly challenging, but its theoretically possible.

As far as tires go, I went to coilovers a while back, which gives me a lot more room to play. Between my 1" spacer, the coilovers, and the +38 offset of my wheels, I've got almost 2.5" of space between the tire and the spring with a 225. In my opinion 225 should fit fine, but if the wheels already have 245s, you might as well test fit things and see how much room you have.

 

[STECARS]

Has anyone achieved this Bargain upgrade on a 2g gsx ?????

 

[Jon Lane]

Has anyone achieved this Bargain upgrade on a 2g gsx ?????

Or does anyone know where to get caliper brackets other than for $150/pr?

 

[mavisky]

$150 a pair is a crazy cheap price. you could just print off his templates and make them yourself.

 

[Jon Lane]

$150 a pair is a crazy cheap price. you could just print off his templates and make them yourself.

Yeah, I think I'll import that sketch into AutoCAD and see what happens.

 

[justin0469]

Well, if you're willing to run 17's all the time, you can just buy these brackets: http://www.electronicauto.com/products/2gttbrakeconversion/brackets.htm

With those, you could buy the 2g TT rotors to go with your 2g TT calipers and have a bolt on setup with the 3000GT 17's.

So I'm not up on brakes and all that goes with them but am trying to figure out if I want to take on the task of doing a real project like 2G VR4 calipers/rotors or just take the easy route and do the 92+ AWD, 3kGT SL or Galant VR4 brakes. Based on the quote above am I to assume that if you get 2g VR4 calipers and rotors, you can just use the linked bracket (since the 3kGT nonturbo calipers bolt on to ours), and have at least 17" rims, you are good to go? Maybe different brake lines?

Can anyone break down a list of parts for us newbs to pick up to do this project (no custom machined brackets etc) or is it out of reach for us?

On that linked page, "What will it fit? This kit has been tested successfully with 1995 3000GT VR4 calipers on a 1998 3000GT SL and an Eclipse GSX. There have been problems reported with fitment on a 1995 Talon AWD and on a 1997 Eclipse GST. "

Why would it fit a GSX but not a 2g AWD or FWD if 1g AWD calipers fit our cars with the bracket?

 

[wret]

I think the problem is that the electronicauto bracket is designed to work with 2g vr4 size rotors OR thier own two-piece rotors which I would imagine are similar in size. I found it necessary to use a larger rotor so the the caliper mounting ears did not overlap. Those brakets are not adjustable for different size rotors.

 

[Jon Lane]

Given that both Ron's and Eric's brackets are 6.25" over 5" bolt spacing (new caliper bolt centers over original caliper centers) would they be more or less interchangable except for rotor diameter?

What I'm getting at is, if they're the same center-to-centers, which would be the best choice for a 12.5" diameter rotor? Any advantage to the 1G vs 2G Stealth calipers?

 

[wret]

Eric's bracket and mine do the same thing: extend the mounting points away from the stock position to space the caliper into a larger circle. I tried to minimize the mounting ear overlap, though I don't know that mine has any actual advantage over Eric's in that regard. The mustang rotor he used has the benefit of another half inch or so in diameter. That makes things easier.

I never looked into 2g vr4/stealth calipers so I don't know their dimensions.

 

[STECARS]

Has anyone done or have any suggestions for the rear brakes ?
Maybe bigger rotors and calipers .
Like maybe the awd dp calipers with big rotors and adapt them to the rear brakes ...etc..
Possible ?
Also how about us guys with solid rotors anyway to convert to vented rotors ?

 

[DSMunknown]

Has anyone done or have any suggestions for the rear brakes ?
Maybe bigger rotors and calipers .

I believe this was discussed earlier and wret is working on it. This quote is from Modified Mag and their "Project STi" brake upgrade. They discuss proper brake biasing with this set-up. This is the issue from August 2004.

"[Rotora offers] 2-piece, all aluminum 6-piston calipers up front while 4-piston calipers handle the braking duties at the rear. These calipers are specially heat-treated so that they won't fade under extreme use and are designed to keep an equal front to rear brake bias.

With those big 4-piston calipers in the back proper brake bias is a must. We don't want them to do too much work and increase our stopping distances. To achieve the proper front to rear brake bias, Rotora has the calipers precisely tuned. By slowly increasing the clamp load to the sweet spot of the calipers while using the stock master brake cylinder to take care of the overall brake bias, proper dispersal of weight transfer under braking is ensured. Through this method, Rotora has achieved a significant improvement in pedal feel and modulation over stock."

I guess the only main concern is with the proper balancing aspect. If one does a "bargain basement" front brake install, it seems that it would leave the rear brakes for guesswork or for multiple attempts-until-satisfied trials.