Balance Shaft Removal with engine still in car?

[4gfun]

I'd like to eliminate the balance shaft so that there is one left thing to worry about.

I have been searching around here a bit and have found varying responses with many of them indicating that it is just too hard to do with the engine in the vehicle.

At this point, the cylinder head is off and so is the timing belt. The thing is, I have never done anything like this and don't want to get myself into a project that I can't handle.

I mean I have pulled the head on these vehicles and done a clutch job before.

Is this much harder?

The last post here (post 16) shows some promise but it is like Greek to me:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...ing-balance-shaft-elimination-engine-car.html

Thoughts?

Thanks

 

[BogusSVO]

Yes the castle plug is threaded

A rubber O ring seals the castle plug to the front case in the groove.

Lightly smooth the marks, install a new O ring then the castle plug

 

[SonySlave]

Looks like you're getting there. Sorry you've had some troubles but if you ever have to do it again you'll be able to do it with ease. Keep posting if you have issues.

 

[4gfun]

Yes the castle plug is threaded

A rubber O ring seals the castle plug to the front case in the groove.

Lightly smooth the marks, install a new O ring then the castle plug

Thanks, there is more damage than the pic lets on. The gash at the bottom is actually straight through to the plate. Is that still ok?

 

[4gfun]

Looks like you're getting there. Sorry you've had some troubles but if you ever have to do it again you'll be able to do it with ease. Keep posting if you have issues.

Hey that is ok! Thanks for giving me that list on what to do. Without it, it would be much more difficult. The best part is, replacing the balance shaft was literally the last bolt that I had to deal with in my teardown. It is all up from here!

 

[4gfun]

Here is what I am talking about.

The green circle is perfect. The red circle has a gash that is case deep at 7 o'clock (I marked it black).

It extends from the outside of the o-ring right through the metal outer circle.

Is it only the inner green circle that counts?

If so, can't I just jb weld the whole area?

Thanks

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[BogusSVO]

The green circle is what matters, the o ring seals in the bottom of that groove and below the castle nut.

Damage in the red circle will not matter as long as any burrs are removed so the castle nut can go flush to the front case.

 

[4gfun]

The green circle is what matters, the o ring seals in the bottom of that groove and below the castle nut.

Damage in the red circle will not matter as long as any burrs are removed so the castle nut can go flush to the front case.

Thanks again BogusSVO.

 

[4gfun]

As far as tightening the castle plug, I don't mind spending a few bucks and waiting for the right tool.

Where do I get the tool? Does Harbor Freight have one maybe?

Do you all use a tool at all when tightening it? If not, what do you do?

I'd like to get the castle plug torqued down to the right torque spec which I believe to be 14-20 ft/lbs but can't do that without the tool.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

As far as tightening the castle plug, I don't mind spending a few bucks and waiting for the right tool.

Where do I get the tool? Does Harbor Freight have one maybe?

Do you all use a tool at all when tightening it? If not, what do you do?

I'd like to get the castle plug torqued down to the right torque spec which I believe to be 14-20 ft/lbs but can't do that without the tool.

There was a discussion about this tool here:
4g61t.org • View topic - Possibly Making Another Tool (Star Plug)

Apparently the OP tracked the thing down and can get the OEM one for $30, but he never posted the part number. Sounds like a Mitsubishi thing maybe. You could try contacting him for the part # if you don't have any luck.

 

[ctspoolintsi]

i did it all in the car it was fairly easy i thought in the car with the timing mount and front motor mount removed. engine went down just enough to slide it right out. pulling the engine seems unneeded to me .

 

[SonySlave]

I have never had any issues with putting the plug back on the same way as off. I just use a flat head screwdriver and a hammer. Just get it on there the best you can by hand then tap it lightly until it stops moving. One more quick tap and you'll be good to go. Unless you really want the tool... haha!

 

[4gfun]

There was a discussion about this tool here:
4g61t.org • View topic - Possibly Making Another Tool (Star Plug)

Apparently the OP tracked the thing down and can get the OEM one for $30, but he never posted the part number. Sounds like a Mitsubishi thing maybe. You could try contacting him for the part # if you don't have any luck.

Yep, that was the only reference to the tool I could find generally using google. I think that I will save my money on this one since the masses have shared their tactic.

Thank you

 

[4gfun]

I have never had any issues with putting the plug back on the same way as off. I just use a flat head screwdriver and a hammer. Just get it on there the best you can by hand then tap it lightly until it stops moving. One more quick tap and you'll be good to go. Unless you really want the tool... haha!

I like the "one more tap style" in this case.

 

[4gfun]

Step 21, lube stubby shaft with what? Regular motor oil ok?

Step 23, Replacing those 3 seals...

Are these the 3 part numbers previously identified as:


Front crankshaft main seal (MD343563)
Balance shaft main seal (MD343565)
Oil pump main seal (MD365697)


Is there anything special about the replacement process of these 3 seals? Do they need to be pressed in or anything? Yes they can be pressed in with sockets of different sizes. Noted this after watching Jafro's videos. I'll head to harbor freight and get the sizes he mentions 38mm and 19mm (which I have). Will also bring my castle plug and see if I can't get it to fit inside a socket and report back what the size is just to see if I can get enough traction to turn at such a low torque spec just for fun....socket is cheap enough. I will report back on this part.

I thought that I remember reading something about that. I have never pressed anything yet in my life. Do they go on dry or with RTV? I think I remember reading that you need to add RTV or you will get a leak.

Do the new seals come with springs as well? I notice that the crank seal had a spring in the middle.

Thanks!

Also, how far will this Felpro kit get me and what might it be missing? I always find it hard to identify the small stuff. I love the Felpro kits, buying from advance, then lumping together coupon codes.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...ct_crankshaft-front-seal-set-felpro_5786193-p

better pics and pics of box....

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DSM-4G63...769&pid=100012&prg=1014&rk=3&sd=171042663298&

 

[SonySlave]

The kit you posted has all of the seals and gaskets you need to do the front case. The sockets are just to apply equal pressure to the seal while it's going into the case. I have a small 2x2" piece of wood and a mini-sledge hammer that I've always used. Just take your time. Also, no lube or RTV is necessary when putting the seals into the case but it's a good idea to lube the inner edge of the crank seal with oil when you're putting the case on the block. You should never have to remove the inner spring from the seals. The seals come ready to install.

 

[4gfun]

The kit you posted has all of the seals and gaskets you need to do the front case. The sockets are just to apply equal pressure to the seal while it's going into the case. I have a small 2x2" piece of wood and a mini-sledge hammer that I've always used. Just take your time. Also, no lube or RTV is necessary when putting the seals into the case but it's a good idea to lube the inner edge of the crank seal with oil when you're putting the case on the block. You should never have to remove the inner spring from the seals. The seals come ready to install.

Thanks SonySlave...I was hoping you'd come back and see me.

There is one part you posted that I do have a question about:

Crank sprocket spacer (MD128107)

I read that this part is optional but you free up power or something with it. If so, I am all ears.

One other thing....the cam seals...I didn't plan on changing those. Those I read that you need RTV on. FACT OR FICTION? Lol!

 

[SonySlave]

The spacer is 100% optional and frees up a little weight as you mentioned but any gains are negligible I'd say. It's really just an available option if your balance shaft sprocket was lost or damaged. The cam seals are 100% something that I would replace ANY time the timing belt is off the car. Cam seals are notorious for leaking and are easy to replace, so no reason not to change them. You don't need RTV for them either. Just like the front case seals, lube the inner edge with oil before you put them on the cams. You should only need RTV for parts of the valve cover gasket as the service manual says.

 

[4gfun]

The spacer is 100% optional and frees up a little weight as you mentioned but any gains are negligible I'd say. It's really just an available option if your balance shaft sprocket was lost or damaged. The cam seals are 100% something that I would replace ANY time the timing belt is off the car. Cam seals are notorious for leaking and are easy to replace, so no reason not to change them. You don't need RTV for them either. Just like the front case seals, lube the inner edge with oil before you put them on the cams. You should only need RTV for parts of the valve cover gasket as the service manual says.

Appreciated, yep I have done many valve covers as per the FSM. I'll skip the spacer this time and save that for the GVR4 track only situation.

I'll most definitely replace the cam seals.

 

[Mischif]

Noted this after watching Jafro's videos. I'll head to harbor freight and get the sizes he mentions 38mm and 19mm (which I have).

38mm??? Do they even make a socket that big?

 

[4gfun]

38mm??? Do they even make a socket that big?

I really have no idea. I'll check harbor freight next time I am there and report back.

 

[fallenauthority]

38mm??? Do they even make a socket that big?

Is that a serious question? Yes, they make sockets that big and MUCH bigger.

 

[4gfun]

Is that a serious question? Yes, they make sockets that big and MUCH bigger.

Every time I touch a project, the required size for the project gets bigger and bigger. I just go with the flow on it, but each time I am more surprised.

 

[buddahboost]

What is that 38 mm used for and do you have a link to the vid? Thanks..I plan on doing a BSE eventually

I looked at a vid From dsmgraveyard(I think that was it)

Wellllll,Keep us updated, thanks!

 

[4gfun]

What is that 38 mm used for and do you have a link to the vid? Thanks..I plan on doing a BSE eventually

I looked at a vid From dsmgraveyard(I think that was it)

Wellllll,Keep us updated, thanks!

I'd do a search under "Jafromobile" videos in youtube. Check his channel out. I watched it from my WDTV the other day so I don't remember the exact link and couldn't book mark it.

The 38 MM socket was to press in the front Balance Seal I believe. I'll be sure to report back once I get to it and probably back to this same thread with any other relevant questions before I move on and start another thread as I piece this car back together. You could also use the method described above by SonySlave.

Thanks

 

[4gfun]

Here is that link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPhyazI1fYc

He mentions that a 42mm would work better but used the 38mm because that was what he had handy.