Balance Shaft Removal with engine still in car?

[4gfun]

I'd like to eliminate the balance shaft so that there is one left thing to worry about.

I have been searching around here a bit and have found varying responses with many of them indicating that it is just too hard to do with the engine in the vehicle.

At this point, the cylinder head is off and so is the timing belt. The thing is, I have never done anything like this and don't want to get myself into a project that I can't handle.

I mean I have pulled the head on these vehicles and done a clutch job before.

Is this much harder?

The last post here (post 16) shows some promise but it is like Greek to me:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...ing-balance-shaft-elimination-engine-car.html

Thoughts?

Thanks

 

[4gfun]

Ok, so I tried to get the crank seal out but it gave me hard time. Every other seal came out ok. I tried to rip it out with needle nose but it just tore. I turned the screwdriver per the method in that video, but I got a little bit impatient and when it wouldn't push up, I turned the screwdriver in multiple places. I did quite a bit of gouging in where the crank seal sat. I thought that the seal only rode at the very edge of the inside of the lip, but it looks like I am wrong. Do I need to get another case, or can I just carry on? (Maybe I am subconsciously trying to wreck my case). The most severe and longest gouges are at around 3 o'clock. The picture of course, doesn't show the severity of the gouges.

Thanks

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[BogusSVO]

That is just the back stop for the seal, NOT a sealing surface. Install the new seal and carry on.

 

[4gfun]

That is just the back stop for the seal, NOT a sealing surface. Install the new seal and carry on.

Thank you!

 

[4gfun]

Since I have the gasket for the oil pump, would you replace that gasket when down there or would you just leave it alone? I am inclined to leave it alone.

 

[BogusSVO]

The front case gasket? The one between the block and front case?

Your choice, as long as the old one is not damaged.

 

[4gfun]

The front case gasket? The one between the block and front case?

Your choice, as long as the old one is not damaged.

Sorry, no I was actually wondering if I should remove the oil pump and do anything while I am in there like take measurements with the feeler gauges or was wondering if that would give me an opportunity to have other mishaps.

I really want to do everything that I can while on the case so it is easier and actually fun when I do the same to my GVR4....but not if it is too risky. Either way I'll learn.

 

[BogusSVO]

Man, I want to say yes so it can be cleaned and inspected and packed with grease.

But..... with the issues you have had, I feel that may be more harm than good.

There is no gasket between the front case and the rear oil pump housing.

Now, has this engine and/or front case spun a bearing? Rod, main or BS? If no, let it be.

Now look at the bore for the stubby shaft, is it nice and smooth? No damage?

Look at the pics in this thread.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/468879-bse-look-stubby-shafts.html

 

[4gfun]

Man, I want to say yes so it can be cleaned and inspected and packed with grease.

But..... with the issues you have had, I feel that may be more harm than good.

There is no gasket between the front case and the rear oil pump housing.

Now, has this engine and/or front case spun a bearing? Rod, main or BS? If no, let it be.

Now look at the bore for the stubby shaft, is it nice and smooth? No damage?

Look at the pics in this thread.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/468879-bse-look-stubby-shafts.html

Well I did find some silverfish metal pieces in the pickup screen like 20 small pieces in total that were not much larger than the screen (I cleaned them up but not check to see if they were ferrous). I'll take a look at the bore for the stubby shaft shortly.

 

[4gfun]

Just checked the bore for the stubby shaft. It is not smooth. Not horrifically grooved but noticeably grooved.

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[BogusSVO]

Now it looks like you need a front case.

Post a pic of the stubby shaft that was installed.

 

[4gfun]

Now it looks like you need a front case.

Post a pic of the stubby shaft that was installed.

Pic below....it was a balance shaft that I intend to replace with a stubby in this case. I can't feel the grooves with my fingernail really, but you know best.

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[BogusSVO]

The shaft doesn't look too bad.

Trying to look at the pump bore pic is a bit dark. Try one in better light.

It will have some wear, and minor grooves.

 

[4gfun]

The shaft doesn't look too bad.

Trying to look at the pump bore pic is a bit dark. Try one in better light. I can take more pics as the day progresses. Looks like there may be a few hot spots but they are not as bad or numerous as say the ones you might see on a flywheel.

It will have some wear, and minor grooves.

Thanks, I took a pic with my other camera (lower resolution but with more light).

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[BogusSVO]

Yeah, thats an iffy looking case.

Go ahead and open it up and inspect the inside for damage.

 

[4gfun]

Yeah, thats an iffy looking case.

Go ahead and open it up and inspect the inside for damage.

Thanks! Open what up? Remove the oil pump?

 

[BogusSVO]

Yes remove the few bolts on the back and pull the 2 castings apart

remove the oil pump gears.

Take a few pics.

 

[4gfun]

Yes remove the few bolts on the back and pull the 2 castings apart

remove the oil pump gears.

Take a few pics.

Ok, uploading a few and editing. If by chance you happen to be around, feel free to stop me at any time. I am obviously not an expert at what constitutes wear (you are helping with that though), but I'll start off with what I perceive to be the worst "wear" that I can see. I don't know if the wear is applicable in each case but here goes.

Thanks!

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[4gfun]

That concludes the pics. If the case is bad, I guess that the rest of the engine is not too far behind possibly? Looking for an excuse to make it part of my GVR4.

 

[BogusSVO]

It looks decent on the inside. A couple light scratches, that's common enough.

Take your new stubby shaft and place it in the bore how it rides, give it a spin. How dose it feel?

Do it twice, once dry, the other with some oil.

It should feel smooth, both dry and with oil, when you spin it.

Just a tad of wiggle dry, even less with oil.

 

[4gfun]

It looks decent on the inside. A couple light scratches, that's common enough.

Take your new stubby shaft and place it in the bore how it rides, give it a spin. How dose it feel?

Do it twice, once dry, the other with some oil.

It should feel smooth, both dry and with oil, when you spin it.

Just a tad of wiggle dry, even less with oil.

Wow, I thought that level of scoring was fatal especially on pic 2. I'll report back as soon as I can with the balance shaft stub info. I guess my GVR4 hybrid might have to wait.

Thank you

 

[BogusSVO]

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You are not even close to the damage like these have suffered.

Look at how the light passes under where the case has been chewed up.

It has to be perfectly flat.

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The light on the left is ok, that is the oil groove, the light spot on the right is where the oil pump gear got into the case.

Yours has some light marks, I would bet, even with a new case, by the time you got 1000 miles on it, it would look close to what you have now, with the exception of the shaft bore.

 

[4gfun]

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You are not even close to the damage like these have suffered.

Look at how the light passes under where the case has been chewed up.

It has to be perfectly flat.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The light on the left is ok, that is the oil groove, the light spot on the right is where the oil pump gear got into the case.

Yours has some light marks, I would bet, even with a new case, by the time you got 1000 miles on it, it would look close to what you have now, with the exception of the shaft bore.

Great pictures and explanations. Thanks for all of your help! I put the stubby in there without oil and it was very smooth. It had such little play that I couldn't even call it that. I didn't bother to lube it yet since it was so smooth to begin with and no real play in the first place.

 

[BogusSVO]

Sounds like you are good to go.

Grab a can of brake clean, with straw on it. Flush all the oil passages.

Blow out with compressed air.

Pack the front case with white grease or luberplate, a thinner grease.just a couple finger fulls.

Install the gears.

Grease should squish between the gears, make a mess

Install the rear pump casting.

Torque the rear bolts (IIRC 22 ft/lbs) Confirm in the FSM

Use loc-tite red if you like.

Install stubby shaft

Install the gear to shaft bolt (10 on the bolt head) Use a drop of red loc-tite here) torque to 26 ft/lbs

Install O ring in the groove

Install castle plug

Done.

 

[4gfun]

Sounds like you are good to go.

Grab a can of brake clean, with straw on it. Flush all the oil passages.

Blow out with compressed air.

Pack the front case with white grease or luberplate, a thinner grease.just a couple finger fulls.

Install the gears.

Grease should squish between the gears, make a mess

Install the rear pump casting.

Torque the rear bolts (IIRC 22 ft/lbs) Confirm in the FSM

Use loc-tite red if you like.

Install stubby shaft

Install the gear to shaft bolt (10 on the bolt head) Use a drop of red loc-tite here) torque to 26 ft/lbs

Install O ring in the groove

Install castle plug

Done.

Haha, you already head off my next post (probably in a few days) at the pass!

Sooner or later this thread might just get marked as resolved.

 

[4gfun]

More visuals...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/151349469-post31.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...45729-how-rebuild-your-6-bolt-front-case.html