Balance Shaft Removal with engine still in car?

[4gfun]

I'd like to eliminate the balance shaft so that there is one left thing to worry about.

I have been searching around here a bit and have found varying responses with many of them indicating that it is just too hard to do with the engine in the vehicle.

At this point, the cylinder head is off and so is the timing belt. The thing is, I have never done anything like this and don't want to get myself into a project that I can't handle.

I mean I have pulled the head on these vehicles and done a clutch job before.

Is this much harder?

The last post here (post 16) shows some promise but it is like Greek to me:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...ing-balance-shaft-elimination-engine-car.html

Thoughts?

Thanks

 

[4gfun]

Is there anything wrong with using this grease?

14 Oz. Sta-Plex Extreme Pressure Premium Red Grease

Just asking since I keep leftover tubes around after I have greased zerk fittings.

Thanks

 

[BogusSVO]

The red grease is too thick, it will not pump through the bearing clearance, and may clog the main oil feed or main bearing feed.

This or thinner, but thicker than oil.\

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Lubriplate-Motor-Assembly-Grease-Large/dp/B00C7YUMQ4/ref=sr_1_1/183-4935651-1975133?ie=UTF8&qid=1380226989&sr=8-1&keywords=lubriplate+105]Lubriplate Motor Assembly Lube Grease Large 10 Oz Tube C105 Sold Each. : Amazon.com : Automotive[/ame]

 

[4gfun]

The red grease is too thick, it will not pump through the bearing clearance, and may clog the main oil feed or main bearing feed.

This or thinner, but thicker than oil.\

Lubriplate Motor Assembly Lube Grease Large 10 Oz Tube C105 Sold Each. : Amazon.com : Automotive

Guess it never hurts to ask...thanks!

 

[4gfun]

Will either of these work Bogus? Headed to HF tomorrow to get some other tools....figure I'd try to get one of these while there if acceptable. I can't tell if these are "white" though.

Sta-Lube Moly Graph Lithium Grease

14 Oz. Lithium Grease

 

[BogusSVO]

The 14 oz lithium grease should work.

 

[4gfun]

The 14 oz lithium grease should work.

Thanks got it in there...have another question/issues I'll post below.

 

[4gfun]

More graphical information:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...07-project-rely-ability-6-bolt-rebuild-3.html

I have also found that supposedly a 1 1/16 unmodified Craftsman 12 point socket turns the castle plug perfectly. I haven't had time to verify it though. For 5 bucks, I might just walk into advance and try it out.

Update...a 1 1/16th socket is not large enough. It will not even fit around the castle plug.

However, the castle plug is perfect to push the front balance shaft seal in.

I ended up tapping with a hammer and chisel hard enough where there were no more than slight nicks around the castle plug.

I have destroyed 2 felpro front (orange) balance shaft seals. The seal tears VERY easily. Turns out, I had no problem with the OEM seal. I pushed on it just fine with a 1 1/16 socket and you can see it bottom out when you turn the case around.

Case responds VERY well to cleanup with simple green and soda blaster.

The Crank seal pushes in perfectly with a 42mm socket. A 40mm socket might be the best though.

Beveled edge of the rear balance shaft spacer goes toward the engine.

New Question:

I notice the following in the VFAQ and in other posts here..."Bolt the short shaft included in the kit to the oilpump gear you just removed. NOTE the direction in which the gear goes on the shaft! The bolt fits inside the step in the gear. Apply high strength Loctite(red) to the bolt threads, install the bolt, and torque to 29 ft-lb."

Not exactly sure what is meant by on the inside step of the gear? How can you mess this up? Just want to be sure. I can't quite figure out how that bolt could be installed wrong or fall into the wrong groove etc.

Thoughts?

Thanks

 

[BogusSVO]

On the oil pump gears, there is a dot on each one, you will look at them when you drop them in the front case.

Dots towards the block

 

[BogusSVO]

On the oil pump gears, there is a dot on each one, you will look at them when you drop them in the front case.

Dots towards the block

 

[4gfun]

On the oil pump gears, there is a dot on each one, you will look at them when you drop them in the front case.

Dots towards the block

I got the dots part right...but is there any way that the bolt could not fit into the groove on the gear when installing it once I got that right? Not sure why there is an emphasis on getting the bolt into the "groove". I have seen reference to that being a big deal more than once.

Thank you

 

[4gfun]

I think that I get it....

other quotes on this site:

"When doing the BSE, make sure you put the bolt INSIDE the lip of the gear, not on the flat side."

"Make sure the bolt goes IN the lip. One side of the gear is flat, the other side is recessed. Make sure the bolt goes in the side that is recessed."

In other words as long as you put the gear with the dots facing the block you can't go wrong?

 

[4gfun]

Step 28 - Install spacer and front balance shaft sprocket.

It looks like the spacer is beveled at it's edge and ridged on one side. Does that side go towards the motor? Does it matter?

Thanks

 

[BogusSVO]

The beveled edge is to help the spacer pass through the seal.

So the bevel edge towards the balance shaft, the flat end towards the gear.

 

[4gfun]

The beveled edge is to help the spacer pass through the seal.

So the bevel edge towards the balance shaft, the flat end towards the gear.

Thanks!

 

[4gfun]

29 Install balance shaft tensioner pulley (only used as a spacer now)

Is it necessary to install the balance shaft tensioner pulley at all? Can I just leave the bolt there to save weight? If so, could I just RTV it?

On a side note, the pulley outer lip is rubbing on the oil pump housing. I don't see how that can even be possible if I simply bolt the oil pump housing back in place the way I found it.

Thoughts?

Thanks

 

[4gfun]

Looks like you have to press up on the balance shaft tensioner pulley between 12 and 1 o'clock before tightening. Question still stands about just putting a bolt in there with RTV for the future.

Thanks

 

[SonySlave]

You can just use a shorter bolt in place of the balance shaft tensioner pulley with a little RTV. Do not use the longer bolt used with the tensioner, it is too long. I usually just put the tensioner back in place and leave it alone.

 

[4gfun]

You can just use a shorter bolt in place of the balance shaft tensioner pulley with a little RTV. Do not use the longer bolt used with the tensioner, it is too long. I usually just put the tensioner back in place and leave it alone.

Hey SonySlave, I am just going to put the tensioner back in...but do you have any idea how much shorter the bolt needs to be roughly? I am guessing the hole goes right through the case and could touch the engine internals if too long or bottom out if it doesn't go through the case?

Like half the size maybe? If it bottoms out, then I could figure it out on my own.

Just asking for when I check all of this out on the GVR4. The BS have been removed but I don't know how the previous owner went about it. I'd like to go all out on that car where possible.

Thanks again.

 

[SonySlave]

Hey SonySlave, I am just going to put the tensioner back in...but do you have any idea how much shorter the bolt needs to be roughly? I am guessing the hole goes right through the case and could touch the engine internals if too long or bottom out if it doesn't go through the case?

Like half the size maybe? If it bottoms out, then I could figure it out on my own.

Just asking for when I check all of this out on the GVR4. The BS have been removed but I don't know how the previous owner went about it. I'd like to go all out on that car where possible.

Thanks again.

Half the size is about right if I recall. Or you could use some washers in place of the pulley and use the stock bolt but that's lame...

 

[4gfun]

Half the size is about right if I recall. Or you could use some washers in place of the pulley and use the stock bolt but that's lame...

Lol, lame indeed. haha

 

[4gfun]

30 Install crank sprocket spacer, timing plate, crank sprocket, and crank bolt (crank sprocket spacer replaces the balance shaft sprocket on the crank)

I am sure that I am going to have a few questions on this step here so please be patient.

Timing plate...does it have to be all pretty...meaning shiny (I have a background dealing with certain optics so this is why I ask)? Also, it has a slight bend. Is that ok? If not, can I hammer the bend out?

 

[SonySlave]

The timing plate on a 1G is really only used for the timing mark to install the timing belt. 1Gs don't use a crank angle sensor like 2Gs and Evos and the optics you speak of are all done inside the cam angle sensor. Just make sure it's mostly flat, you don't want it hitting the timing belt. Also be sure to install everything in the correct order and facing the correct way. Starting from the engine: Balance shaft sprocket (lip toward the motor), timing plate, crank sprocket (dowel pin away from the motor), crank bolt (blue Loctite isn't a bad idea). ALSO BE SURE THAT THE KEY ON THE CRANK HASN'T COME OFF SOMEHOW!!! It lines up all of the components and holds it all in place.

 

[4gfun]

The timing plate on a 1G is really only used for the timing mark to install the timing belt. 1Gs don't use a crank angle sensor like 2Gs and Evos and the optics you speak of are all done inside the cam angle sensor. Just make sure it's mostly flat, you don't want it hitting the timing belt. Also be sure to install everything in the correct order and facing the correct way. Starting from the engine: Balance shaft sprocket (lip toward the motor), timing plate, crank sprocket (dowel pin away from the motor), crank bolt (blue Loctite isn't a bad idea). ALSO BE SURE THAT THE KEY ON THE CRANK HASN'T COME OFF SOMEHOW!!! It lines up all of the components and holds it all in place.

Thanks, I have seen the pin come off on other cars so I know what you mean.

The bend is very slight...I will leave it alone. I looked at the wear marks on everything and this is what I concluded:

First balance shaft sprocket, then timing plate, then crank sprocket. All gear "bowls" facing the engine. So that basically seems like what you mention.

Also, the wear marks seem to show how everything sat (if you have any wear on the parts).

Finally, there is a little dot on the spacer that you suggested using instead of the balance shaft sprocket. The spacer looked the same on both sides otherwise so I put the dot facing away from the engine.

 

[SonySlave]

Yeah the spacer really is just that, a spacer, and can go on either way. Didn't realize you were using the spacer instead. Sounds like you did it the way I would have. I was going to mention wear marks as a way to make sure everything is facing correctly but you already got that.

 

[4gfun]

Yeah the spacer really is just that, a spacer, and can go on either way. Didn't realize you were using the spacer instead. Sounds like you did it the way I would have. I was going to mention wear marks as a way to make sure everything is facing correctly but you already got that.

Yep, definitely took your advice. Wanted to hold on to it for my GVR4 timing job in case it wasn't done...but heck it was only 7 bucks.

I am just thankful that I will be able to do it on that car easily when the time comes.

Off to get the pickup and do the oil pan which I have done in the past. I don't anticipate making any more progress for a couple more weeks since you know how the holidays can be, so I definitely want to get the oil pan back up until then.

Thanks for all your help.