2G AWD Trans Rebuild Options in 2022

[MattHDSM]

Hello all! I'm in the market for a 5 speed AWD transmission, capable of holding down ~350-450HP should I do a little more upgrading in the future. Looking at shops like TRE, TMZ, Jacks, etc. staged rebuilds are a thing of the past and most rebuild options look like they're targeting near stock power levels. I'm curious if anybody has used these guys recently for a trans rebuild in the same target power levels or if anybody is rocking a "near-stock" rebuilt trans and at what sort of power levels.

Unfortunately I don't have a core to spare so I'll likely be buying a used stocker anyways or maybe a used trans that was built when staged builds were a thing. It might end up being my only choice eventually because I'm not spending $8K on a dogbox for a 300HP street car

Any feedback or suggestions is welcome, thanks.

 

[steve]

As I understand it you should be thinking in terms of how much torque you're going to be feeding the drivetrain.

 

[MattHDSM]

As I understand it you should be thinking in terms of how much torque you're going to be feeding the drivetrain.

Torque is a better descriptor for sure, I just went with HP as some of those builders "rate" their capabilities in HP and I figured it might be an easier point of entry. I'm not sure how much torque a s16g is going to make, but with my stock bottom end I'm not planning on taking it much further than that. The extra power wiggle room would be nice for the future and longevity of the build.

 

[jdxnc]

For that power level, if you could get your hands on a 90 gearset, all new bearings and shims, along with a 4 spider center diff, it would live a long and happy life. That was my combo for running mid 10's for several years.

 

[bastarddsm]

Just please do not send it to jacks.

 

[twicks69]

Heads up, you will need a good core transmission for the work to be done. There are so many parts that are no longer available that it makes it quite difficult to build a stock level trans with OEM new parts. Being that you are a 2g trans, you are pretty much looking at a refresh, and a 4 spider center diff option. NEAT gearbox in Australia made a batch of spider gears which I stock, along with my 4 spider cross shaft. You will need to supply an undamaged housing and cover and pinion gearset.

If you keep it below 400whp it should do decent. The 3/4 hub and slider and the stock center diffs are the most common failure points at the lower power levels.

Unfortunately there are no new 3/4 hub and sliders, and no more HD 3/4 gearset upgrades because the associated gears and hub/slider are obsolete.

Best advice is to use a quality higher viscosity gear oil like Redline 75w140NS, and don't beat the crap out of your trans if you don't want to spend on a PPG gearset.

 

[MattHDSM]

Heads up, you will need a good core transmission for the work to be done. There are so many parts that are no longer available that it makes it quite difficult to build a stock level trans with OEM new parts. Being that you are a 2g trans, you are pretty much looking at a refresh, and a 4 spider center diff option. NEAT gearbox in Australia made a batch of spider gears which I stock, along with my 4 spider cross shaft. You will need to supply an undamaged housing and cover and pinion gearset.

If you keep it below 400whp it should do decent. The 3/4 hub and slider and the stock center diffs are the most common failure points at the lower power levels.

Unfortunately there are no new 3/4 hub and sliders, and no more HD 3/4 gearset upgrades because the associated gears and hub/slider are obsolete.

Best advice is to use a quality higher viscosity gear oil like Redline 75w140NS, and don't beat the crap out of your trans if you don't want to spend on a PPG gearset.

I was hoping you'd chime in, I always see your posts and that instills a lot of confidence in the work you do. Can I PM you for a few questions on your services?

 

[Dusty Landrum]

Just please do not send it to jacks.

I personally have to agree with this. Just because of my experience with them. had to send my trans back THREE times due to issues and they kept wanting to charge me for shipping even though it was their error in assembly. I have only put maybe 6 miles on it since the rebuild but if I had to do it again I would go with TRE or someone else. Keep your eye out for some evo III gears (which were actually recently listed for almost 3K on here) if you want to rebuild at a higher HP rating. Good luck.

 

[1cleangsx]

I’m selling my evo 3 conversion kit that I purchased from jacks , but their the only NEW 3/4 gears you can get now, I’ve also got a new OEM early 3/4 hub I purchased from Tim @twicks69 last year which you’ll need for the conversion, pm me if your interested

And for what it’s worth Jacks still sells NEW dsm 1st and 2nd double synchro gears, so theirs still some options for ya

 

[streetraceboi]

The only thing relevant now is @twicks69 is now all that is holy and our savior with our transmission needs.

 

[twicks69]

I was hoping you'd chime in, I always see your posts and that instills a lot of confidence in the work you do. Can I PM you for a few questions on your services?

You can PM or email me.

 

[1cleangsx]

The only thing relevant now is @twicks69 is now all that is holy and our savior with our transmission needs.

That’s who’s getting all my future business from now on , I’m hoping my jacks trans last a year or so before I send it to Tim for the ppg treatment

 

[NWHTanK]

Twick69 might be getting all my stuff if things go my way for a ppg gearset.

 

[MindBlowin03]

@twicks69 what is your thoughts on Motul gear 300 trans fluid?

 

[twicks69]

It is likely fine, but there is no fluid that is a magic fix for power levels above what the components are designed for. The Motul 300 line looks like it is just available in 75w90. The viscosity at the temp upper limits of our transmissions is a bit low in comparison to the Competition 75W-140 though. If it's just a street car with less than 400hp and not being pushed to its limits, it should be fine for the application.

I typically like to run Redline 75w140NS, and have been for many years for my own car when I raced, and customers.

It just comes down to availability. If you have great access to Motul, and not so great to Redline, then go for it. I usually recommend MOTUL GEAR COMPETITION 75W-140.

 

[bastarddsm]

Also don't ship transmissions via ups or fedex. I just had a customer send me one through fastenal, and that seem smooth, and low cost. but took 3 weeks.

 

[clutchtamer]

How much torque you can get thru a transmission is usually decided by how quickly the clutch pulls the engine down, not by how much power the engine makes. Here's a link to my page that mines RWD dragstrip data to roughly calculate torque applied to the transmission's input shaft over the course of making a pass. I know it's RWD and clutchless vs AWD using the clutch pedal, but it shines some light on how the clutch can cause transmission killing torque spikes far in excess of the torque that the engine makes...
http://grannys.tripod.com/clutchtuning.html

It doesn't take much to soften the hit of a clutch, here's a page with links to commonly found clutch hit control devices found on the web...
https://grannys.tripod.com/clutchcontrol.html

+1 for Fastenal if you have the time for your shipment to bounce around their system. I've shipped hundreds of 200lb plywood crates to customers across the country, only once was there a problem using Fastenal when someone stuck a fork into a crate. They called me before releasing it to the customer, even sent pictures of the damage. Luckily no damage to the contents, but when UPS or FedX damages something it always seems to be the customer's fault.

Grant

 

[vanilla gorilla]

I personally have to agree with this. Just because of my experience with them. had to send my trans back THREE times due to issues and they kept wanting to charge me for shipping even though it was their error in assembly. I have only put maybe 6 miles on it since the rebuild but if I had to do it again I would go with TRE or someone else. Keep your eye out for some evo III gears (which were actually recently listed for almost 3K on here) if you want to rebuild at a higher HP rating. Good luck.

Same here. Back in the day Broke their top shelf tranny in a few miles. They sent us another, broke it instantly again, sent us a 3rd and I didnt even bother to install it. Sold it. Converted to auto

 

[MindBlowin03]

It is likely fine, but there is no fluid that is a magic fix for power levels above what the components are designed for. The Motul 300 line looks like it is just available in 75w90. The viscosity at the temp upper limits of our transmissions is a bit low in comparison to the Competition 75W-140 though. If it's just a street car with less than 400hp and not being pushed to its limits, it should be fine for the application.

I typically like to run Redline 75w140NS, and have been for many years for my own car when I raced, and customers.

It just comes down to availability. If you have great access to Motul, and not so great to Redline, then go for it. I usually recommend MOTUL GEAR COMPETITION 75W-140.

My car is 700+ at the flywheel(low 600s on dyno) and weekend warrior. I've always run the Redline 75w140NS in my car without many complaints. I've read good about the Motul 300 and was thinking of switching this year just to see what I think.

 

[twicks69]

My car is 700+ at the flywheel(low 600s on dyno) and weekend warrior. I've always run the Redline 75w140NS in my car without many complaints. I've read good about the Motul 300 and was thinking of switching this year just to see what I think.

Well you should be running a higher viscosity oil than 75w90. You can try the Motul competition 75w140, but it is a bit stickier (like a thin honey) and flows a bit slower than the redline 75w140NS.

 

[1cleangsx]

While your in the conversation Tim I have a quick question, I’ve put about 100 miles on my Jacks trans with the HD 3rd/4th gears, would it still be worth cryo treatment/shot peening with the gears after some break in miles? Or is gear treatment only worth it on a brand new set? I’d love to send you my trans for some treatment while everything’s still fresh to increase longevity before anything’s completely shot

 

[twicks69]

Well the trans would need to be torn down, degreased, detailed, then id do Shotpeening and REM treatment.

The gear treatment can be on new or used components, it is beneficial either way.

What exactly was replaced in the trans already with new components?

 

[1cleangsx]

I bought it as it is now from jacks thru an eBay listing, it came directly from them with warranty, but I have no idea what was replaced, simply listed as an “HD drag trans” with double synchro 1st/2nd and hd 3rd/4th with a 4 spyder diff. Other than the slight clutch drag I’m still trying to adjust out it shifts fine, I obviously haven’t launched it or revved it much 7,000 but a few times in 2nd as I’m breaking in a new motor. The ppg is where I’d like to end up eventually, but if I can put a little extra in this trans now while it’s still healthy to get it to live a little longer I would. My car is your typical weekend warrior dsm, I don’t have a 10 second goal or anything like that, I’d just like it to be built right and handle some power, apologies to the OP for crashing his thread

 

[twicks69]

We can discuss those details through pm or email to keep this thread clean.

 

[NWHTanK]

Ok then thier is this that popped up on facebook.. People thought PPG was high.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.