Rebuilding AWD Trans

[andrewjscott]

I'm going to attempt to build my first trans. I've done engines and a transfer case before and feel somewhat confident in my ability. I'm sure I'll feel more confident when I crack open the case, as I am a hands on learner. I've read over the service manuals, many sites, and reviewed options and this is the direction i'm taking. The car is a daily driver that is used for autoX, so 2nd gear takes a beating. The trans shifts great into all gears but 2nd. 2nd is hit or miss daily driving, and shifting above 3500...forget it!

I would go with a shep trans, but living in Canada, shipping is about $170 CAD each way, plus the trans at about 1200CAD plus any duty/brokerage charges. I work at an auto parts store and get all transmission parts at cost, so my parts bill should be around 650-700CAD (including double synchro 2nd) assuming no broken shift forks, rails ect.

Back on track here....I just have a few questions.

There are 24 "special tools" listed in the service manual needed. Most of them are "installers" and look like they can be substituted with a little brain power. Apart from basic mechanic tools, I know I will need a knife edge puller, an input shaft holder, a micrometer, and a torque wrench. Is there any other tools I will need?

Also, I would love to hear any experience anybody has, good or bad, things to look for, tips, ect.

 

[talon187]

if your cracking the case open and doing all this i would think about upgrading the rails. I blieve you can buy them from tre. my friend in town builds dsm trannys and its wroth upgrading them, but i was told do doubble scyroncs in second gear that the case isnt big enough. Im pretty sure my friend had to have his case meachined by shep. I dont remeber if it's for just second or second and thrid? I do know if its a later 90 tranny you can do the duobble synchros and it will fit but the second gear is weaker. well good luck and let me ask you how hard was it to rebuilt a transfer case? how much were parts?

 

[andrewjscott]

if your cracking the case open and doing all this i would think about upgrading the rails. I blieve you can buy them from tre. my friend in town builds dsm trannys and its wroth upgrading them, but i was told do doubble scyroncs in second gear that the case isnt big enough. Im pretty sure my friend had to have his case meachined by shep. I dont remeber if it's for just second or second and thrid? I do know if its a later 90 tranny you can do the duobble synchros and it will fit but the second gear is weaker. well good luck and let me ask you how hard was it to rebuilt a transfer case? how much were parts?

Transfer case was easy. Theres not much to it. I don't remember how much the bearings were, less than 100 though. Just followed the manual.

 

[andrewjscott]

ok, well, the work has begun, still looking for any input, especially on tools.

 

[95 'clipse RS]

hi im about to do a rebuild on my tranny also, its the F5M22 tranny, but i was jus wondering where you are getting the parts for this, all i can find are diff bearings and output shaft bearings. id like to find them all in a set, if thats possible. if you could help me out here id be greatly apprieciated.

thanx

 

[andrewjscott]

I ordered all my parts though King-O-Matic in Vancouver British Columbia, Canada. That probably won't work for you, but i believe they get their trans parts from Trans Tec . Check out http://www.transtec.com

 

[talon187]

ok ive said it once ill say it again. if your going to rebuild your tranny why dont you upgrade it? the weakest link in our cars our the transmission why do a stock rebuild? if you beat on it race it whatever. you'll be doing it again. like i said why dont you guys buy tre parts? might be alittle more cash but def worth it. heres the link
http://www.teamrip.com/awd.html

 

[andrewjscott]

ok ive said it once ill say it again. if your going to rebuild your tranny why dont you upgrade it? the weakest link in our cars our the transmission why do a stock rebuild? if you beat on it race it whatever. you'll be doing it again. like i said why dont you guys buy tre parts? might be alittle more cash but def worth it. heres the link
http://www.teamrip.com/awd.html

I am upgrading to a double synchro second if you read my original post. I'm also in Canada and TRE does not ship to Canada. I'm getting my double synchro second from JNZ tuning.

 

[95 'clipse RS]

thanks guys, that link you provided was very helpful

 

[groundPork]

I am post disassembly on my first ever rebuild/upgrade as well. The only thing i found to be a pain on disassembly was the roll pin for the shift assemlby in the case. have to buy a punch to drive it out, it's almost an 1/8th inch diameter. i don't have a press so some gearcluster dissassembly took a while. I think a dial indicator and base would be a useful item for some of the clearance and lash checking. I know the manual calls for solder most of the time, some race builders use this tool as well. machinists dye would be a good idea.

you mentioned the transfer case rebuild... did you happen to replace the bushing in the nose cone that supports the driveshaft? i can't seem to find that bearing as a separate part.

 

[andrewjscott]

I am post disassembly on my first ever rebuild/upgrade as well. The only thing i found to be a pain on disassembly was the roll pin for the shift assemlby in the case. have to buy a punch to drive it out, it's almost an 1/8th inch diameter. i don't have a press so some gearcluster dissassembly took a while. I think a dial indicator and base would be a useful item for some of the clearance and lash checking. I know the manual calls for solder most of the time, some race builders use this tool as well. machinists dye would be a good idea.

you mentioned the transfer case rebuild... did you happen to replace the bushing in the nose cone that supports the driveshaft? i can't seem to find that bearing as a separate part.

I've got punches, gear pullers, access to a press. so i think i'll be alright.

As for the transfer case, by bushing do you mean the oil seal at the tail of the xfer case where it meets the driveshaft? I got that from my local auto parts store. Its a Chicago Rawhide (SKF) oil seal. Found one from JNZ tuning for next to nothing. http://www.jnztuning.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=239_26_59&products_id=475

Worst case, go to the dealership and get the transfer case tail seal. part no. MR983368 just might cost you a little more

 

[groundPork]

Wasn't implying you didn't have those things just throwing it out there.

Actually if you look in side the bore that the drive shft inserts into just behind the seal itself, you'll notice a bushing in there, it doesn't show up in the factory manuals.

Anyway, just thought I'd ask.

 

[andrewjscott]

Wasn't implying you didn't have those things just throwing it out there.

Actually if you look in side the bore that the drive shft inserts into just behind the seal itself, you'll notice a bushing in there, it doesn't show up in the factory manuals.

Anyway, just thought I'd ask.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I don't remember it specifically being there, so i must have reused it.

 

[talon187]

glad the link was helpful. where can i get a copy of the service manual? i really want one for the transfer case. thanks!

 

[andrewjscott]

I'm borrowing a friends, but he got his from the dealership, its two dictionary sized books.

 

[talon187]

how much did that thing run any clue?

 

[andrewjscott]

no idea, being that they are from the dealership, probably pretty expensive. If i were to guess I'd say 80-100 bucks. Well worth the money though if you do any serious work on a DSM. makes a Haynes or Chilton manual look like a childrens pop-up book.

 

[pneumo]

Check out www.manualcd.com
It's the full DSM tech manuals on CD, plus it has CAPS which is Mitsu parts lookup including exploded diagrams with part numbers. That CD is pure freakin gold when it comes to tech details!

It shows you exactly how to rebuild a tranny, transfer case, and everything else in the car. It also lists the proper clearances in the tranny, plus part numbers for any size spacer needed to get the clearances right.

I've rebuilt several trannies, and now I'm subscribed to this thread. HTH

 

[andrewjscott]

I've rebuilt several trannies, and now I'm subscribed to this thread. HTH

Any suggestions, or things to look out for for a first time tranny builder?

 

[talon187]

maybe someone can correct me if im wrong. I thought when you do doubble syroncs you need to have the case to the transmssion meachined? am i wrong? well i tought if you had later trasnmssion they would fit but the gears were weaker. thanks!

 

[andrewjscott]

maybe someone can correct me if im wrong. I thought when you do doubble syroncs you need to have the case to the transmssion meachined? am i wrong? well i tought if you had later trasnmssion they would fit but the gears were weaker. thanks!

Notto my knowledge, my buddy put a double synchro in his 91 talon without any machining. I've heard its needed on 90's but don't quote me on it.

 

[pneumo]

Any suggestions, or things to look out for for a first time tranny builder?

Sure, read through the VFAQ first
www.vfaq.com/mods/Trannyrebuild.html
make sure you understand it, make sure you have every tool that's listed, and make sure you have the ability to do it all. There are a few parts that can go in backwards so look at everything as you take each part off so you can see how it goes back on. There are a few parts that will fall out, like the center shaft retaining ball held in by the VC, and the reverse selector thing hidden between the shift rails, so make sure you're working in an area where parts won't get lost or mixed up with other garbage on the floor (is this the part that fell out?). There are plenty of ways to mess up so I can't list them all. Just proceed with intelligence and test the action of each part as you put it back together. If you get stuck on something, post it up. Plenty of folks have done OK on their first try. Besides, if your trans is messed up it'll be easy to make it a little better.

 

[andrewjscott]

well, i've got the cases and shift rails off so i'm right into it...way easier once your hands are on it. My reverse teeth are warn to blunt points, but i'm told this is normal as there is no synchro, also, who cares about reverse. Could somebody verify that All other gears looks good, the synchros are pretty warn down. The only slight problem i found was my 5th intermediate gear has a slight mushroom over the top edges of the bevel gear (just enough for a fingernail to feel), and there is a bit of a tiny chip off the bottom edge of the bevel gear, looks like just the surface chipped away. a camera won't take a good enough picture, will this gear need to be replaced? Thanks

 

[pneumo]

The sides of all gears (not the contact surface) will normally have raised edges. I guess if you're working on the trans, and the trans is resting on the bellhousing, then this would be the 'top' of the gear. It's normal, although it's not good for durability. Shep and TRE machine the sides of the gears flat + smooth to remove those edges, which eliminates stress risers that can break teeth off the gears. Don't try this at home. Those guys have special machines that do this job with care and precision.

The chip on the bottom edge of the 5th intermediate gear sometimes happens when you pry the gear off the shaft. I wouldn't worry about one small chip. Those gears are brittle. Keep this in mind if you are tempted to re-assemble any part of the tranny with a hammer.

 

[groundPork]

I noticed in my tear down, that the selector fingers of the shift rail ends, appear to have some rounding on there leading interface edges. I wonder if they wouldn't engage more positively if they had a flat ground on the leading edge about .050" or so wide, and tapered or radiused relief ground on either side. Or am i wrong in assuming the slop is not preventing an engagement issue. I haven't gotten to checking assembly clearance and bench test yet.

does microlpolishing or even superfinishing actualy offer any benefit to shift feel?