2G AWD Conversion/Swap Guys Enter Here - Advanced. [Merged 2-07]

[99gst_racer]

Thanks, still have AC, so looks like I'm good. I'm working on sourching the parts so with any luck will have another awd owner next year . Though I'm sure I'll have more questions before then

Excellent. Well, dont hesitate to shoot me a PM or post in this thread. I should be able to answer any questions regarding this swap and/or parts needed.

 

[daren_p]

Well have sourced most of the parts for the swap. The ones I have need some work to get into the condition I'd put on my car but the drivetrain should be basically like new (well actually better then new) when I'm done. I working on getting certain components that are rust free, so we'll see

Paul I had another question about the intermediate shaft, were you able to get both mounting holes to line up correctly on the block? Tim was saying the difference is the bracket offsets from 95-96 to 97-99 & if I tried to bolt up the 95, I wouldn't be able to install both bolts?

 

[99gst_racer]

I had zero issues getting my '95 intermediate shaft to line up on my '99 block. I just had to use a portion of the A/C bracket as a spacer, and it fit perfectly. I thought I remembered reading about that difference in intermediate shafts before, but I'm not 100% about that, so I can't confirm or deny what Tim said. I'm sure that I had no problems though. I also picked up a '96 parts car shortly after my swap was complete and it had a nicer intermediate shaft, to I ended up swapping that out on my car. It fit fine too.

Let me know if you're having a hard time locating certain parts. I might be able to broaden your search and give a hand finding something if you can't.

 

[daren_p]

I guess my best bet is to just jack the car up & test fit the bracket. Maybe I'll get some time this weekend, I'll post back my findings.

 

[Peepers]

Guys, here's a question on the spare tires that AWDs come with.

I just picked up a wrecked Talon TSI to do my swap and was wondering if I can still use my stock 2G Spyder spare tire (T125/70D15) with my stock 16" 5-spoke Spyder Rims. Or will it be better to locate an AWD spare even though by stock 16" 5-spokes are 16" and AWD's came with factory 17"?

 

[daren_p]

According to the specs of that spare, looks like it should work out to ~21.9" diameter. So I forget what sized tires your running but they have to be a couple inches more. So looks like we both need an awd spare

 

[SRiz]

yea the spare in the gsts are useless for awd.. I dont have a spare have to rely on AAA

 

[Peepers]

Hey guys,
I was talking with one of the DSM scrap yards looking for a driver's side rear knuckle (my AWD donor’s was wrecked in an accident). I was explaining to him what I was doing (AWD Spyder Swap) and he told me that I can still use my FWD knuckle, just need to remove the FWD hub/bearing assembly and install new AWD hub/bearing assemblies. In theory this might make sense, as long as the knuckles are the same? But according to CAPs they share different part numbers which is leading me to believe they are indeed different.

Spyder - Rear Knuckle - Driver's Side Rear (LH) - #MR223651
AWD - Rear Knuckle - Driver's Side Rear (LH) - #MR223655
Spyder - Rear Knuckle - Passenger Side Rear (RH) - #MR223652
AWD - Rear Knuckle - Passenger Side Rear (RH) - #MR223656​

Spyder - Rear Wheel Bearings / Hub Assembly #MB892408
AWD - Rear Wheel Bearings / Hub Assembly #MR403968​

What are your guy’s thoughts on this theory??

I’ll also share some photos I took of removing the AWD subframe bolts in case anyone's interested??

 

[99gst_racer]

Technically, he's right. The only difference is that the rear knuckles on the FWD car are capped off where the axle would pass through and attach. It is possible to "convert" rear FWD spindles into AWD ones. I just don't know what parts are necessary or how to do it. I don't know if it would be easier to just buy the AWD rear knuckles or not...

 

[Omega]

Peepers.. I have a set of AWD rear knuckles. All the brake parts are there, just on of the shields is cut to fit a bigger rotor on there and the cables are cut. PM me if you are interested

 

[Peepers]

99gst_racer, your right about that cap. I guess it was there to keep dirt and crap out of the FWD rear bearings? According to CAPS it looks like that cap is a seperate item that can be ordered #MB864970? I wonder if it's removable?

 

[daren_p]

99gst_racer, your right about that cap. I guess it was there to keep dirt and crap out of the FWD rear bearings? According to CAPS it looks like that cap is a seperate item that can be ordered #MB864970? I wonder if it's removable?

The cap on the FWD should be removable (never tried but it looks to be a seperate part). The knuckles are the exact same as far as I can tell but I'm almost positive the AWD knuckle also has a bigger hole where the hub bolts to. I had my rear fwd suspension apart a few months back to swap bushings & from what I remember these holes in the knuckle seemed to be a smaller diameter. Also when you look at them both in CAPS, I thought they appeared to be different sizes. Guess I'll have to do some investigating when I get a chance.

 

[99gst_racer]

Yeah, the cap just bolts on, so it's definitely removable. I've never tried removing it though.

 

[assault187]

I Started mine today...I'll experiment with the FWD rear knuckle theory

 

[daren_p]

Okay guys, I've got a dumb question. In CAPS it says there's 3 large bolts & then 4 smaller bolts needed to mount the transfer case. I know where the 3 large & two of the smaller ones go but what about the other two? I thought maybe they were used somewhere else & CAPS just showed a total qty for that part # as 4 but now I see DSMGraveyard is selling the kit with 4 smaller bolts as well, so where do the two extra bolts go?

 

[99gst_racer]

Okay guys, I've got a dumb question. In CAPS it says there's 3 large bolts & then 4 smaller bolts needed to mount the transfer case. I know where the 3 large & two of the smaller ones go but what about the other two? I thought maybe they were used somewhere else & CAPS just showed a total qty for that part # as 4 but now I see DSMGraveyard is selling the kit with 4 smaller bolts as well, so where do the two extra bolts go?

IIRC, there's 5 bolts, not 7. Three long ones, and two shorter ones.

MF241319 should be two, not four.

But, then again, I haven't even touched a t-case in 8+ months, and my memory sucks.

Regarding the rear knuckles, I've confirmed that AWD and FWD are indeed different. According to that "DSM Scrap Yard", the wheel bearing / hub holes are different diameters and the four bolt holes to secure the bearing/hub are in different locations.

Would it be possible to swap an AWD wheel bearing into a FWD rear knuckle?

 

[Peepers]

gstracer – from what the guy was telling me, the OEM AWD hub assembly that includes the bearing won’t bolt up to a FWD rear knuckle. The reason is those four mounting holes (where the hub/bearing bolts to the knuckle) are in different locations (probably really minor differences).
I’m only going off of info that relayed to me over the phone yesterday. A true test / confirmation will be when I attempt my swap in the spring.

Here's the link to dsmgraveyard's post that's causing some questions http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/vendor-announcements/318223-new-oem-transfer-case-bolt-kits-28-99-a.html

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[daren_p]

IIRC, there's 5 bolts, not 7. Three long ones, and two shorter ones.

MF241319 should be two, not four.

But, then again, I haven't even touched a t-case in 8+ months, and my memory sucks.


Would it be possible to swap an AWD wheel bearing into a FWD rear knuckle?

Ya Paul, I could only find spots for 5 bolts like you say, 3 long & 2 short. When I pulled the T case off Marks (Peepers) doner, 5 bolts

I can understand that CAPS may show more then is required (shown in the req qty. section), as if that bolt is required elsewhere, it will be included in that qty. I just figured this was the case till I saw the DSMGraveyard Vendor post & they are selling a kit with 7 bolts as well

 

[99redgst]

I'd rather not count how many times I have pulled tranfercases this year between my 1g and 2g. I'm 100% positive they both have 5 bolts. 3 long, 2 short.

 

[gofer]

... DSMgraveyard is just throwing in one extra of each bolt jic you lose, bust, or strip one.

 

[99redgst]

... DSMgraveyard is just throwing in one extra of each bolt jic you lose, bust, or strip one.

If they are giving extras, its two extra short ones and no extra long ones.

 

[assault187]

I finally got around to pulling the subframe bolts from my donor car and found this

these are the rear bolts

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This car took one hell of a hit in the back passenger side rear. This could be a body shops attempt to repair a broken bolt....weld another to it.

It almost looks like the one bolt is the shorter FWD bolt and someone had welded another onto it so it could be used for the AWD bolt. This has me baffled... could this be a manufaturer fix? There is no evidence what so ever of that sheet metal being cut and welded back down or the bolt support that keeps that bolt from spinning.......????????....

 

[gorf]

Hey guys,
I was talking with one of the DSM scrap yards looking for a driver's side rear knuckle (my AWD donor’s was wrecked in an accident). I was explaining to him what I was doing (AWD Spyder Swap) and he told me that I can still use my FWD knuckle, just need to remove the FWD hub/bearing assembly and install new AWD hub/bearing assemblies. In theory this might make sense, as long as the knuckles are the same? But according to CAPs they share different part numbers which is leading me to believe they are indeed different.


I’ll also share some photos I took of removing the AWD subframe bolts in case anyone's interested??

From my observation, the scrap yard dealer is correct. The knuckle is the same just the spindle is different and easily changed. Further the control arms appear to the same so should also be interchangeable as well as anything brakes related.
Pick the best parts when doing your conversion and use them.

 

[Peepers]

gorf,
At first glace they look interchangeable but it's been confirmed that they're not.
The openings where the wheel bearing goes thru are different diameters (FWD vs AWD) and the four mounting holes for the hub assembly are also slightly different.

 

[DSMGraveyardinc]

Ya Paul, I could only find spots for 5 bolts like you say, 3 long & 2 short. When I pulled the T case off Marks (Peepers) doner, 5 bolts

I can understand that CAPS may show more then is required (shown in the req qty. section), as if that bolt is required elsewhere, it will be included in that qty. I just figured this was the case till I saw the DSMGraveyard Vendor post & they are selling a kit with 7 bolts as well

Yep that is exactly it, We built the bolt kit from caps. They show 3 long, and 4 short when you choose them for some reason.

We will get on that ASAP. I guess that means the kit price will go down a bit too.

Thanks for the heads up guys!

Jon
DSM Graveyard Inc.