Auto Or 5 Speed

[dontknowalot]

WHAT WOULD BE BETTER FOR HAVING FUN AND RACING AN AUTO OR 5 SPEED IS THERE ANY COMANY THAT MAKES A STALL WITH A HIGHER STALL SPEED THEN STOCK AND DO ANY ONE MAKE A SHIFT KIT THATS FOR THE HELP

 

[DSSA]

Originally posted by CornerHard


An F1 transmission is a manual that is computer-controlled

Once again, the stock automatic transmission has very little in common with drag automatics or F1 paddle-shifted manuals.

This has got to be the dumbest thread I've read in quite a while.

Care to tell me what the difference is between the drag automatics? I'd like to hear this....

 

[CornerHard]

http://www.powerglide.com/

As I understand it, these only have two gears. There may be variations of this, but I'm not terribly interested in two gear transmissions, as they're not particularly useful outside a drag strip.

I will give that it's potentially easier to get consistent drag times with an auto. However, there are very few autos on www.dsmtimes.org (Buschur's is NOT a stock auto tranny, of course), and I'm not aware of any performance benefits whatsoever for an auto tranny outside of drag racing.

There's a lot of misinformation floating around in this thread, which is why I had to vent. If you don't like using a clutch while sitting in traffic, you are welcome to enjoy your auto, but please don't think going 1-2-D-OD is giving you a performance advantage.

I've driven a BMW autostick and a couple Audi autosticks. They may be nice for old people who don't like excitement, but they aren't going to help you when racing.

 

[JEFFREYHANN]

the only thing i said about manually shifting an auto it that you can get into the highter rpm range before it shifts, no gears to miss. i raced a twin turbo stealth that was running 12.8's. this was before i had nitrous on my car. i beat him!!!!!!! and it wasnt because my car was faster either. he missed 3 rd gear. the only reason i love my auto is that you cant miss a gear when you are really concentrating on other tasks at hand. thats all. every person has their own likes and dislikes. to me ,its like a blonde/ brunette discussion .

 

[DSSA]

Originally posted by CornerHard
http://www.powerglide.com/

As I understand it, these only have two gears. There may be variations of this, but I'm not terribly interested in two gear transmissions, as they're not particularly useful outside a drag strip.

I will give that it's potentially easier to get consistent drag times with an auto. However, there are very few autos on www.dsmtimes.org (Buschur's is NOT a stock auto tranny, of course), and I'm not aware of any performance benefits whatsoever for an auto tranny outside of drag racing.

There's a lot of misinformation floating around in this thread, which is why I had to vent. If you don't like using a clutch while sitting in traffic, you are welcome to enjoy your auto, but please don't think going 1-2-D-OD is giving you a performance advantage.

I've driven a BMW autostick and a couple Audi autosticks. They may be nice for old people who don't like excitement, but they aren't going to help you when racing.

The powerglide is but one of a slew of automatic transmissions used for dragracing.

You seem to have gone from your previous statement of "There is *no* advantage to automatics" to, "I'm not aware of any performance benefits whatsoever for any auto tranny outside of drag racing".

 

[CornerHard]

Originally posted by DSSA


The powerglide is but one of a slew of automatic transmissions used for dragracing.

You seem to have gone from your previous statement of "There is *no* advantage to automatics" to, "I'm not aware of any performance benefits whatsoever for any auto tranny outside of drag racing".

I'm not sure where you found the statement, "There is *no* advantage to automatics"

The only advantage of automatic transmissions is ease of use. There are many, many disadvantages, which have been discussed already.

That is my original comment, and I still stand by that. Ease of use, for me, includes having the car shift automatically for you on the drag strip.

If you take an identically modded auto and manual and drag race them, the manual will be faster due to more gears (closer ratios), the ability to hit optimal shift points, and less drivetrain power loss. There is a point where you're going so fast that the manual gets in the way, but once again, as www.dsmtimes.org shows us, DSMs generally do not go fast enough for that to be an issue.

So the only performance advantage automatics have is in very high end drag racing, and those automatics are very different physically from what the people in this thread are driving. Automatics hold no other performance advantages that I know, though you're welcome to surprise me. There's a reason that many sports cars are not available in an automatic transmission; they are slower, offer less control over the car, and are (subjectively) less fun to drive. Have fun trying to maintain attitude control while powering out of a hard corner in an automatic. You just can't keep the tires as close to the limit as you can while toe-heeling.

I have no problem with any automatic owners who commute with their DSM and don't like pressing the clutch, or who drag race and are worried about messing up their shifts, but many people in this thread still seem to think their automatic will give them an extra boost in speed or handling, which simply isn't true.


DSSA, now I'm curious about a comment you made earlier, that manuals have many disadvantages. Would you care to elaborate? I'll address a few I've seen in this thread:

- Snow. Why, exactly, is snow a problem for manuals? The goal in snow is to not break traction by giving too much power to the wheels, and I have a much easier time doing that when I have a clutch to feather. With an auto, as soon as you put the car in drive, the wheels start to spin of their own accord.

- Losing boost between shifts. If you hold the gas while shifting, you will lose very little boost during shift. However, this isn't worth the wear on the clutch to me, because you're still well above the boost threshold after making the shift. It takes so little time to shift (I can upshift in half a second or so), that the turbo doesn't have much time to spin down.

- Top speed. What? What're the final drive ratios of an auto and a stick? I don't know what they are, but I'm skeptical the auto has a taller fourth than the stick's fifth.

 

[DSSA]

Originally posted by CornerHard


That is my original comment, and I still stand by that. Ease of use, for me, includes having the car shift automatically for you on the drag strip.

"Ease of use" could then be applied to almost any other aspect, if that's where you're going with it.


If you take an identically modded auto and manual and drag race them, the manual will be faster due to more gears (closer ratios), the ability to hit optimal shift points, and less drivetrain power loss. There is a point where you're going so fast that the manual gets in the way, but once again, as www.dsmtimes.org shows us, DSMs generally do not go fast enough for that to be an issue.

So, what is this "magical time" you're using to determine this?

So the only performance advantage automatics have is in very high end drag racing, and those automatics are very different physically from what the people in this thread are driving. Automatics hold no other performance advantages that I know, though you're welcome to surprise me. There's a reason that many sports cars are not available in an automatic transmission; they are slower, offer less control over the car, and are (subjectively) less fun to drive. Have fun trying to maintain attitude control while powering out of a hard corner in an automatic. You just can't keep the tires as close to the limit as you can while toe-heeling.

I have no problem with any automatic owners who commute with their DSM and don't like pressing the clutch, or who drag race and are worried about messing up their shifts, but many people in this thread still seem to think their automatic will give them an extra boost in speed or handling, which simply isn't true.


DSSA, now I'm curious about a comment you made earlier, that manuals have many disadvantages. Would you care to elaborate? I'll address a few I've seen in this thread:

- Snow. Why, exactly, is snow a problem for manuals? The goal in snow is to not break traction by giving too much power to the wheels, and I have a much easier time doing that when I have a clutch to feather. With an auto, as soon as you put the car in drive, the wheels start to spin of their own accord.

- Losing boost between shifts. If you hold the gas while shifting, you will lose very little boost during shift. However, this isn't worth the wear on the clutch to me, because you're still well above the boost threshold after making the shift. It takes so little time to shift (I can upshift in half a second or so), that the turbo doesn't have much time to spin down.

- Top speed. What? What're the final drive ratios of an auto and a stick? I don't know what they are, but I'm skeptical the auto has a taller fourth than the stick's fifth. [/B]

 

[DSSA]

Originally posted by CornerHard


That is my original comment, and I still stand by that. Ease of use, for me, includes having the car shift automatically for you on the drag strip.

"Ease of use" could then be applied to almost any other aspect, if that's where you're going with it.


If you take an identically modded auto and manual and drag race them, the manual will be faster due to more gears (closer ratios), the ability to hit optimal shift points, and less drivetrain power loss. There is a point where you're going so fast that the manual gets in the way, but once again, as www.dsmtimes.org shows us, DSMs generally do not go fast enough for that to be an issue.

So, what is this "magical time" you're using to determine this? I can tell you that even in only a low 12 second car, the manual transmission can be a whore above 7000 rpms.

So the only performance advantage automatics have is in very high end drag racing, and those automatics are very different physically from what the people in this thread are driving.

Strength-wise? Yes. Otherwise, they're not that different of a beast.


Automatics hold no other performance advantages that I know, though you're welcome to surprise me. There's a reason that many sports cars are not available in an automatic transmission; they are slower, offer less control over the car, and are (subjectively) less fun to drive. Have fun trying to maintain attitude control while powering out of a hard corner in an automatic. You just can't keep the tires as close to the limit as you can while toe-heeling.


I never once argued that they were better for road-racing applications. Nor will I.


I have no problem with any automatic owners who commute with their DSM and don't like pressing the clutch, or who drag race and are worried about messing up their shifts, but many people in this thread still seem to think their automatic will give them an extra boost in speed or handling, which simply isn't true.


I've yet to see someone state that they would turn better times at Pocono Raceway or the likes with an auto.

DSSA, now I'm curious about a comment you made earlier, that manuals have many disadvantages. Would you care to elaborate? I'll address a few I've seen in this thread:

- Snow. Why, exactly, is snow a problem for manuals? The goal in snow is to not break traction by giving too much power to the wheels, and I have a much easier time doing that when I have a clutch to feather. With an auto, as soon as you put the car in drive, the wheels start to spin of their own accord.

- Losing boost between shifts. If you hold the gas while shifting, you will lose very little boost during shift. However, this isn't worth the wear on the clutch to me, because you're still well above the boost threshold after making the shift. It takes so little time to shift (I can upshift in half a second or so), that the turbo doesn't have much time to spin down.

Snow? I surely didn't say anything about automatics being easier in the snow. I feel the exact opposite. Give me a manual.

Loosing boost between shifts. Yes, the boost guage doesn't drop at all between shifts with an auto. If you're talking about some car with a small turbo (20G or smaller), yes, you're correct in the fact that you can come right back up on boost once shifting at high RPMs. Get a large turbo on your car and find out how untrue that statement can be.

Your shifting ability that you tout, I can guarantee you that you shift nowhere near as quickly as an automatic. And once you build a car with a large turbo and a higher-than stock rev-limit, have fun seeing how long a manual box shifts well @ 8500 or more. Ever wonder why some of the faster guys in drag racing have dumped tons of money trying to get an automatic to hold up? Extreme for one spent quite a bit of time and money into said project.

- Top speed. What? What're the final drive ratios of an auto and a stick? I don't know what they are, but I'm skeptical the auto has a taller fourth than the stick's fifth.

Manual ratio= 3.545
Auto ratio= 3.131

O/D in an auto is definitely taller than 5th in a manual. Try cruising at 80 mph on the highway in both.

 

[1Gdreamin]

Personally i am interested in driving my car not riding in it. Manual transmissions allow you to DRIVE rather than RIDE. You also get more power to the wheels where it matters when you have a manual. I think somone said something about going through clutches... well i say it's better to burn up a clutch or 2 than tear up a slip-o-matic.

 

[DSSA]

Originally posted by 1Gdreamin
Personally i am interested in driving my car not riding in it. Manual transmissions allow you to DRIVE rather than RIDE. You also get more power to the wheels where it matters when you have a manual. I think somone said something about going through clutches... well i say it's better to burn up a clutch or 2 than tear up a slip-o-matic.

Thus, why it's a free country.

Now, does anyone who's actually *had* experience with both auto and manual DSMs care to join the discussion?

 

[johnfsmith]

So this site http://www.dsmtimes.org/ shows that the fastest dsm is an auto!

 

[CornerHard]

So this site http://www.dsmtimes.org/ shows that the fastest dsm is an auto!

Yes, but a very strong 2-speed racing auto. See above.


DSSA:

Half my comments were addressed at other people in the thread saying such things as autos being better at racing from point A to B.

You obviously are more experienced at drag racing than me, and did a good job answering my questions There is no "magic time", it varies with your application. I'm just saying that, while sticks are faster than autos stock for every car that I've seen, at some point the stick becomes a limiting factor in drag racing and you may be better off with an auto.

 

[984G634LIFE]

I prefer an auotmatic transmission because think about it, you have consistency, longer gear ratios and the turbo never stops spinning, and if your not an idiot you can get good launches with an automatic too.

 

[Paulito]

I love to drive 5 speed. For a few reasons

1) It's ALOT of fun
2) The acceleration kicks major ass
3) When downshifting I can slow my car to a halt within seconds
4) Overall controlability of your car. You have complete and udder control over your car. And she gives back everything you put into her. I know mine has.

 

[mitsu134]

your car is stock and your calling people who have autos wimps.look at your car its stock and im pretty sure mine will smoke the s**t out of yours and its an auto. then u can whip that cocky little smerk off your face. then u can go home and cry like a little girl.

 

[CornerHard]

I think this thread has outlived its usefulness.

I've driven my friend's modded 300+hp Audi S4 (twin turbo) w/ autostick several times, and I'd take my less powerful GSX any day of the week over it. I just love pushing the car to the limit through the corners with toe/heeling, and you can't do the same things in the S4. It's a fast car though.

 

[bp97tsi]

I've had both. A 98 talon 5speed & a 97 talon auto that i still have. I also have a good friend that had a 95 gst 5spd & a 92 laser awd 5 spd & he switched to a 95 talon tsi auto. For those that dont have much experience with cars it boils down to personal opinion & preference. For those that have grown up around cars all their life, domestics & imports, circle track, road racing, & drag racing like me. I think i'll stick to the facts. If you want to have lots of fun, have lots of money to waste, & love to tear #@%#@%#@%#@% up all the time then go with a manual. If you want to have fun(of course), are serious about racing, stick to the facts then go with an auto. Vrs racing has gone as fast as 10.55 in a 1/4 with only a rebuild, shift kit, end clutch kit, & a high stall converter. Extreme motorsports has gone as fast as 8.87 in the 1/4 but he also is using nitrous, he tears drivetrain parts up all the time & as a matter of a fact he messes a manual trans up or a transfer case up just about every other race. I got the mag. to prove it. Its in the March 2002 issue of Turbo & High-Tech Performance. Like i said earlier, if u just wanna have fun & love to blow money on #@%#@%#@%#@% u tear up all the time get a manual. If u are seriuos racing in any aspect. Buy an auto & upgrade it = more consistent & will last longer. But! But! You have to think about it this way too. They only built so many of these cars. Some auto. Some manual. Everyone cant have what they want. U cant have your cake & eat it too. Most must work with what they have. Peace out

 

[Oreopride18]

Most of the cars are built auto trannys.With a shift kit and a high stall(witch is supposed to come out very soon for the auto cars,It will stall between 3000 and 4000 rpm)FULL boost of the line.Witch cannot be done in a stick car.

Do a search on here. There is a technique to boost from the line with a manual.

 

[natef420]

personally, im running a 98 gs auto, which im sure you guys with turbos are sitting there saying "granny car". i didnt buy it so much for the performace level, but more for a show/cruise car. its got the full blitz body kit, projector beams, stainless wing, 17's, sterio system, cold air induction, cam gears, header, and cat back exhaust, and the car runs fine. ive never had any probs out of the 100,000 miles it has on it. the auto tranny shifts great and does exacally what i want it to do when i want it to. what im saying here, is once a person figures the tranny out, like where it will shift or downshift, they work just fine.

 

[NOLIMITAWDGSX]

I really don't understand why anyone can say autos are so much worse. They're more consistant and easier to launch. If you want to stay in your powerband more often with an auto, just get an aftermarket torque convertor. Providing it holds up, I don't see how an auto w/ a better torque convertor could ever be worse than a manual under drag racing conditions. I've seen so many races lost because of a miss shift or excessive wheel-spin that it's rediculous...

 

[InFlames]

Originally posted by NOLIMITAWDGSX
I really don't understand why anyone can say autos are so much worse. They're more consistant and easier to launch. If you want to stay in your powerband more often with an auto, just get an aftermarket torque convertor. Providing it holds up, I don't see how an auto w/ a better torque convertor could ever be worse than a manual under drag racing conditions. I've seen so many races lost because of a miss shift or excessive wheel-spin that it's rediculous...

I agree 100%. But thats for drag racing only. And if you have AWD, the launches are much less violent with an auto, even with a torque convertor.

 

[dont need 8]

It sounded to me like the original poster was a new driver looking to get his first car. If that was the case I would say to get a manual and learn to drive it. Once you learn a manual you will be able to drive anything.

This thread is so old that the original poster is probably not around anymore though.

 

[MasterGodsmack]

I agree that 5 speeds are better but when you are learning how to drive auto is so much easier. but other than that autos suck ass.

 

[steckelberg]

Originally posted by MC-97-GSX
Auto is for wimps.

I would have chose to put it a little nicer, bit ya. 5-speeds are the way to go. I used to argue the other way around. I converted my GS auto to a 5-speed and won a bunch of races i lost before just with the 5-speed. Reliablility both hold up pretty well. Ive seen heavy mods on both automatic and manual dsms and the stock trannys held up. People keep talking about being consistant and driving skills. Let me tell you driving skills are nothing to be affraid of. Speed wise the manual is the way to go, and for those who say that they are not consistant with their 5-speeds....LEARN HOW TO DRIVE!!!

 

[4g63talonawd]

both have an advantage auto you have full boost when you shift gears unlike 5 speed you will loose boost when you shift and the throttle closes

 

[mdre21]

unless you power shift and never let the throttle body close