Auto Or 5 Speed

[dontknowalot]

WHAT WOULD BE BETTER FOR HAVING FUN AND RACING AN AUTO OR 5 SPEED IS THERE ANY COMANY THAT MAKES A STALL WITH A HIGHER STALL SPEED THEN STOCK AND DO ANY ONE MAKE A SHIFT KIT THATS FOR THE HELP

 

[dTERM]

Auto's are ment for the handicapped and women who like to put on makeup while they drive. Anyone racing an auto is probably ricing it too...and they need to have their ass handed to them on a platter...which any 5-speeder will gladly do.

 

[Goblin]

AMEN dTERM

 

[MattR]

on top of everything else already said, here are a few things:

1. sticks are always cheaper off the lot. an auto tranny adds like $500-1G to the MSRP.
2. in general, auto trannies are more expensive to repair/replace
3. autos weigh more. even with an extra gear, sticks are like 50 lbs lighter.

i learned to drive on my moms windstar and my dads taurus- both autos. even though my tercel is only a four on the floor, i still love the manual tranny and i hate having to drive either of those. every car i buy in the future will be a stick.

 

[InferiorWang]

is your tercel one of those hatchbacks with the funny looking flat back end. I know a guy at work with one like that. It's loud as ]-[ell. Sounds almost like the integra that another guy that we work with owns.

 

[DSMTurboEclipse]

as someone earlier mentioned, an auto is less hassle in traffic and snow. where i live, traffic is a a pain and the winters have been known to have some snow. i drive a '91 Eclipse GS turbo and its auto. theres nothing wrong wit it. i never had to time to learn manual and i just like to cruize. i don't goto the track and all so i don't need to be a race car driver. just the simple quickie from traffic light to traffic light is fine wit me and my car does fine on those. i have an auto and i'm happy wit it

 

[MattR]

no, my tercels a 94. toyota made hatchback tercels up until 1990, 91 they switched to a "non boxy" body style for tercels.

 

[the1nonly858]

auto is #@%#@%#@%#@%

 

[EvolvingGST]

ok i read enough people telling him the same thing and i have read these posts like 10000 times since i joined. So can we make it a side note to just tell them we prefer stick with reasons that you feel and hasnt been posted.... next time we can do the same.... I am like this cuz i feel sorry for the poster...

P.S. Not to all just some certain individuals

 

[IWANTSPEED90DSM]

All my cars have been automatic until i bought my 90 Talon TSi FWD, and i gotta admit stick is more fun, but i don't believe that when all things are equal that an auto will always lose to a stick...
Brake Boosting is great with auto, u dont need three feet like in a stick car (j.k)

For instance, my buddies 87 Supra Turbo (stick) and his buddy who drives an 87 turbo as well (auto) there compression is similar and they have all the same mods (avcr-safc-4" elbow to 3" and 1 bar) yet that auto all ways gets him with that 4-6 psi he's got off the line, and if you look at an accurate boost gauge you'll notice that an automatic actually GAINS boost through the gears so IF you know how to drive Automatic (that sounds pretty funny but i'ts true) You should be equal if not quicker than those sticks

If of course, all things are equal (ie. bigger turbo)

But It is pretty fun to drive stick, unless your in traffic.

 

[1gjohn]

I have to agree that a stick much more FUN to drive,but for consitancy at the track(drag strip) Most of the cars are built auto trannys.With a shift kit and a high stall(witch is supposed to come out very soon for the auto cars,It will stall between 3000 and 4000 rpm)FULL boost of the line.Witch cannot be done in a stick car.As for what is better,that can be argued forever,it personal opinion.For me mines a AUTO,that will have a 3500 stall as soon as it is out(should be by the end of the month from what im told.)
As for Dterm.My cars auto and theres NO rice,Its a sleeper(take a look at my web page).I wont even put a piller mount in my car.My gauges are low profile.Does putting in a stereo system in your car before making it fast make you a rice boy?And needing my ass handed to me for owning a Auto .I say"just bring it".
Its all good
Peace

 

[DSSA]

I have to laugh at all of you that state an auto is worthless for racing and a 5-speed will hand it its ass.

I know that when given a decent shifting manual, I can shift the #@%#@%#@%#@% out of a car when presented the opportunity, however, there's no *WAY* that I'm outshifting an automatic. If you're talking roadcourse, it's a different story, however, providing both types hold up equally (which so far hasn't been the case) and both cars having the same amount of power, I challenge anyone to outshift an automatic car. Why do you think that the fastest drag cars out there are automatics and auto-variants?

I'm still big on the driver-input needed for a 5-speed, to me it's just more fun and you have more control over the car. However, for outright racing, if I can build this one automatic trans. to hold up in my one Auto AWD I'll be happy. It's going to need all the help I can give it once the T4 (leftover from the last car) goes on it, but there's something to be said about almost-instantaneous shifts, and a car that has no lag when shifting. I invite you all to take a ride in an automatic turbo car with some decent power. It just keeps pulling...and pulling...and pulling....

For overall fun, get the manual box car. If you're up to the challenge (and money) of getting an automatic to hold up to 400-450+ whp it's rewarding as well...and you'll have a faster car down the 1320.

 

[1gjohn]

Well put DSSA.

 

[mdre21]

It shouldn't even be a question between auto or 5 speed. If you are looking for drag performance, the 5 speed is better because launches will be easier to manipulate not to mention the ability to power shift. If you are looking for racing where you turn the wheel ie. autocross or road races, there's no doubt you should go with a 5 speed. How else will you properly shift, ie, heel-toe and double clutching upon braking. I live in Iowa and have to drive in snow during the winter and I find that i can control my 5 speed better than automatic cars I've driven because it's easier to feather the throttle combined with feathering the clutch gets the right amount of power to the wheels.

 

[DSSA]

Originally posted by mdre21
It shouldn't even be a question between auto or 5 speed. If you are looking for drag performance, the 5 speed is better because launches will be easier to manipulate not to mention the ability to power shift.

You *REALLY* need to learn a little about automatic transmissions....

If you think that you can outshift an automatic trans. either:

A) You've slightly lost your mind
-or-
B) You're one of the top 10 shifters in the free world.

BTW...lauching? How do you think Buschur is pulling low 1.4s?

I can leave the line with 18-20 psi in the auto. I have yet to do that with any of the 5-speeds without anti-lag.

I'll let you get back to researching.

 

[Goblin]

All very good points and well thought out ideas, but I think everyone has lost site of the original question. A reasonable person would agree that a damned dragster with an racing trans would spank a manual, but those are million $ set ups on cars that run 6s when human involvment actually hinders mechanics.

At the begining of the forum we are talking MANUAL DSM vs AUTO DSM STOCK not the rhetorical debate of "manual is better than auto" and visa versa.

Lets not beat a dead horse, or try to run 9s in a Honda Civic here!

Peace out

 

[DSSA]

And that's still the subject.

If you can get an auto trans. to hold up, it's going to be faster in the 1320 once you're making some power. Plain and simple.

Ever wonder why Extreme wasted a lot of time and money trying to get an auto trans. to work in their Talon? It wasn't because it was slower...

 

[Goblin]

Originally posted by DSSA
And that's still the subject.

If you can get an auto trans. to hold up, it's going to be faster in the 1320 once you're making some power. Plain and simple.

Ever wonder why Extreme wasted a lot of time and money trying to get an auto trans. to work in their Talon? It wasn't because it was slower...

1) How is that stock?

2) What was that you said: "time and MONEY"

3) Wasted?

4) that car isn't Streetable!

So how is any of that still on subject? That's like comparing my manual NA to Buschers 8 second dragster they aren't even in the same class.

...that's all I'm going to say about that there is nothing left to debate here Auto's out perform manuals in real serious applications, manual is more fun and outperfrorms in less serious applications. In streetable cars Auto is for convienence and manual is for sport. Everything that could be said on this subject has been covered in this forum thread by everyone who has posted. Peace out

 

[NauticaComp2001]

What a bunch of bullshit. How many of you have ever driven a car that runs faster than 13's? In a mid 14 second car and up (which most of you have) you are wasting your time if you build an auto. I have a friend with the exact same car and gets his ass handed to him every time...he has a auto with 16g and I have a manuall with 16g. You know why? Because evertime I shift it puts me right back in my power bad giving my car the oppurtunity to build instant boost. In a drag application a auto is defintely the way to go escpecually for consistancy in drag racing, but for most of the users on this board stick with a stick.

*cliffnotes* (haha, yes I belong to honda-tech)
Not trying to be a #@%#@%#@%#@%#@% but both have there advantages and disadvantages and is not really worth arguing about.

 

[Twinsen]

Damn, I dug up this thread on accident (was like two months old) and now its the most controversial thread in this section.

 

[DSSA]

Originally posted by Goblin


1) How is that stock?

(...I forgot...we all drive *STOCK* cars in here)

2) What was that you said: "time and MONEY"

(Are we talking about developing an auto transmission that holds up to the abuse that 700+ whp puts through it?)

3) Wasted?

(Correct...because no one seemed to be able to build one for them that would hold up to what their car was putting down)

4) that car isn't Streetable!

(Your point?? So because something is used/tried on something that isn't "streetable" that means it doesn't apply to street-used vehicles? Better tell a lot of R&D teams for major manufacturers that they're wasting their time)

So how is any of that still on subject? That's like comparing my manual NA to Buschers 8 second dragster they aren't even in the same class.

(If my point was any sharper, it would have left a serious wound. Obviously you cannot follow the point I'm making)

...that's all I'm going to say about that there is nothing left to debate here Auto's out perform manuals in real serious applications, manual is more fun and outperfrorms in less serious applications. In streetable cars Auto is for convienence and manual is for sport.

(this is the debatable aspect that is left up to opinion, I was stating *facts*)

Everything that could be said on this subject has been covered in this forum thread by everyone who has posted. Peace out

 

[DSSA]

Originally posted by NauticaComp2001
What a bunch of bullshit. How many of you have ever driven a car that runs faster than 13's?

How does several 11 second cars sound?



In a mid 14 second car and up (which most of you have) you are wasting your time if you build an auto. I have a friend with the exact same car and gets his ass handed to him every time...he has a auto with 16g and I have a manuall with 16g.

Perhaps in a 14 second and up car (I guess we're talking about people with little to no mods or NT cars now) a manual is the best choice. However, it's not due to the transmissions, it's due to the gearing of the individual transmissions. With the automatic, each gear is taller, which is less multiplication of torque...thus, less acceleration. This is overcome once you make some decent power. Ever try to launch a 11 second car? I invite you to do so someday...you'll find that a lot of time is wasted on the 1-2 shift which no longer is done by watching the tach, but by timing. The things are *SERIOUSLY* short geared for that kinda power and it's "Launch.<GodIHopeI'mTimingThisRight>.*SHIFT!*....

You know why? Because evertime I shift it puts me right back in my power bad giving my car the oppurtunity to build instant boost.

Wrong. It's because your lower gearing is advantageous with the amount of power the two of you are putting down. You say your "shift puts you right back in the power band and gives your car the opportunity to build instant boost"??? What do you think and auto does the *WHOLE* time? It is out of boost *FAR* less time than your manual, plus, is shifting less. When both of you get more power, run again, and then we'll debate this aspect.

In a drag application a auto is defintely the way to go escpecually for consistancy in drag racing, but for most of the users on this board stick with a stick.

For most people, yes, I have to agree. Stick is the way to go. Don't get me wrong, I would never get rid of any of my manual trans. cars. If one had to go, it would be the auto, but not for performance reasons. It would be due to enjoyment of driving, the challenge of shifting the car quickly, and lack of strength that the transmissions have. Some people seem to be making the auto transmissions hold up as the handful of 11 and 10 second automatics are proving....and the #of them seem to be growing rapidly at this point.


Not trying to be a #@%#@%#@%#@%#@% but both have there advantages and disadvantages

This basically sums up the whole thread. Both have their characteristics that make them (un)appealing to certain people. What they're looking for in a car will determine what is best for them.

andd is not really worth arguing about.

Arguing is debating a matter of opinion. I'm just trying to point out facts. Facts are always useful. Opinions..well....<shrug>

 

[NauticaComp2001]

Originally posted by DSSA Ever try to launch a 11 second car? I invite you to do so someday...you'll find that a lot of time is wasted on the 1-2 shift which no longer is done by watching the tach, but by timing. The things are *SERIOUSLY* short geared for that kinda power andit "Launch. <GodIHopeI'mTimingThisRight>.*SHIFT!*.... Wrong. It's because your lower gearing is advantageous with the amount of power the two of you are putting down.

First off I have owned cars that colck 10.20's and trap over 135, furthermore have driven just about evry kind of fast car you can think of from all out 6 second rail cars to 11 second twin turbo supra's. I present facts as they are relavent to the mebers of this board, BY PUTTING IT BACK INTO THE POWER BAND LETS IT GET TO THE POINT WHERE IT CAN BUILD BOOST FASTER. When you have to wait for the car to get up to its power range in an aout you stil have turbo lag. How many single turbo converted supra's have you driven? ALl things equal I know my supercharged t56 equiped mustang was a whole different ball game then driving a car with a rediculous amount of turbo lag but give it up, I am done trying to use commone sense in my posts to get the point across, once again both are good for different reason and I am done.
Peace out~

 

[DSSA]

Originally posted by NauticaComp2001


First off I have owned cars that colck 10.20's and trap over 135, furthermore have driven just about evry kind of fast car you can think of from all out 6 second rail cars to 11 second twin turbo supra's.

Funny, the Supra guys claim that the auto-trans cars are still the best equipped for drag racing too, so I guess that you're telling me that you agree with me here.

I present facts as they are relavent to the mebers of this board, BY PUTTING IT BACK INTO THE POWER BAND LETS IT GET TO THE POINT WHERE IT CAN BUILD BOOST FASTER.

What are you talking about??? God god man, I invite you to take a ride in the automatic beater '92 AWD I have. I can leave the line @ 18psi, and the car doesn't drop out of boost until I leave off the gas. Now, tell me genius, if the car leaves at 18 psi, and NEVER comes out of boost until you get off of the gas, *HOW* is that more lag than a 5-speed? If you're the "experienced drag racer" that you claim to be, tell me why almost *ALL* of the non-DSM cars out there with serious power (where they have RWD and actual *STRONG* options) use auto transmissions? Tell me...what 5-speed did they use in that 6 second rail?

When you have to wait for the car to get up to its power range in an aout you stil have turbo lag.

Ummm...see above. THERE IS NO LAG WHEN DRAG RACING AN AUTO...plain and simple. You can spool at the line and *never* drop out of boost the whole way down the track unless you leave off of the gas.

How many single turbo converted supra's have you driven?

A few. Both auto and 6 speed. Your point for this question? If you think back, the big to-do over a lot of 9 second Street Supras were that they were doing it with the 6-speed Getrag instead of the autos. Supras prove my point if anything.

ALl things equal I know my supercharged t56 equiped mustang was a whole different ball game then driving a car with a rediculous amount of turbo lag but give it up, I am done trying to use commone sense in my posts to get the point across, once again both are good for different reason and I am done.
Peace out~

Yay, you had a supercharged Mustang. Now, how does a belt-driven charger on a Mustang have anything to do with experience with an automatic DSM? If you check the times pages for the auto-DSMs, you'll notice that some are up there with the faster ET compared to MPH 5-speed cars. Hell, if I could find an auto that would hold up to the power, I'd throw it in my 5-speed AWD with the T61 to play around with it. No, it wouldn't be as much fun, but it would be interesting to see how the car would run with no time lost for shifting and more importantly *NOT COMING OUT OF BOOST*.

Now, tell me again. What's you experience with DSMs and more importantly auto DSMs with some power behind them? Last I looked you weren't even sure what injectors came in the autos.

 

[waubm]

manuals are for race cars

Actually i do recall seeing many dragsters that are automatic

 

[dTERM]

Wow...Well, I've had both tranny's and I know, from experience, that the cars with 5-speed tranny's launch faster and handle better than any auto I've driven. That includes my Automatic 1994 300zx and later my 5-speed 1993 300zx. Both had Twin Turbo engines and before any mods, the5-speed would absolutely spank the Auto in 0-60 times. I ended up putting alot more money into my second car so the comparison is only fair when they were new. This Eclipse, is my daily driver. It is all stock, aside from the raido and the aircan. So 1gjohn, to answer your question, I have no intention of rising or racing this car. I have a 1969 H/O with a 455ci motor that I race. It has a 4 speed manual. The stock tranny was a 4 speed dualgate automatic that was just to slow to react, so I swaped it out for a 442 4 speed manual. Much faster off the line now. If you ever make it down to Texas, come to Amarillo on the first Friday of the month, I'm usually at the Dragway east of I-27 and Bell at the "Race a Cop"