Auto Or 5 Speed

[dontknowalot]

WHAT WOULD BE BETTER FOR HAVING FUN AND RACING AN AUTO OR 5 SPEED IS THERE ANY COMANY THAT MAKES A STALL WITH A HIGHER STALL SPEED THEN STOCK AND DO ANY ONE MAKE A SHIFT KIT THATS FOR THE HELP

 

[NauticaComp2001]

I compared my mustang to launching a "fats car" there is nothing difficult about it when launching on heated slicks, and were starting to argue the same point, I AGREE a automatic is better for strictly drag racing applications, hence the reason I included supra's in my post, I still will stick to the FACT that for thr vast majprity of people that would read this stick with a manual. I like lower gears, and a higher top end

 

[DSSA]

Yes, I've stated above in many posts that people in here would *probably* prefer a manual. If I only had one or two DSMs, they'd both be manual cars. However, people were arguing that manuals build boost faster in between shifts (which, in a way is correct...because autos don't even build boost between shifts...it stays pegged).

Plus, there's more expense in building an auto trans. to hold up.

As far as top speed, the auto should have a taller top speed due to it's gearing. It's much taller than the manual. This is also why 5-speeds are quicker when you're talking lower h.p. #s. Once you start making some decent power, the lack of time in between shifts, no coming out of boost, and the taller gearing make use of the power better with the manual. Then that brings us to durability. The auto transmissions seem to be holding up somewhat well at higher h.p. #s, but when you start putting 500+ to the wheels, I don't think anyone who has tried them has had absollute luck with them.

Once again, I'm not arguing that *most* people in here would want a 5-speed. However, when people say that you can shift faster in a 5-speed, etc., that's when I have to disagree.

 

[indiana_2003]

5SPD is the only way to go

 

[kylemoto]

This has been a fun debate!

The drag boys (oops, I mean the dragstrip boys!) have mixed feeling on whats quicker in the quarter mile...I think most people can see the auto box will perform the actual shift quicker, but can that offset the power losses and everything else.

As for the road racing guys, I think they drive mostly auto boxes now - in F1, the a basic clutch is used for standing starts, paddles for everythign else. Sounds pretty automatic to me.

Anyways, getting back to the DSM, time to dream some more. As I stated before, the powerband of the turbo engine is certainly wide enough to take care of any gearing in the automatic. Whay not set the automatic up to behave like a manual? Here's how:

First, program some changes to the transmission. Make it so that the torque converter slips ONLY in first gear - this helps the launch and provides that solid feel that a manual has. This should remove that rubber band feel automatics usually have. The converter will be locked in all other gears. Set the valving for quicker, firmer shifts. Besides feeling "racy", it actually improves transmission life since the transmission plates slip less.

Finally, add paddles to the steering wheel! Yup, one on each side. The left one shifts up, the right one shifts down. This should be a snap, since just about everything Chrysler makes has the feature in the transmission (i.e. Auto shift). We are just moving it from the floor (why is it there????) to the paddles just off the steering wheel.

There you have it! We get the quickness of an atuoshifter, the basic feel of a manual box, some high tech to sell.......this one might actually be fun to drive and design! Any takers?


Kyle

 

[Screamer]

Im glad someone(DSSA) is sticking up for AUTO guys. I can drive a 5-speed pretty well, but I like the automatic. I would love to have the auto/manual shifter paddles on the steering wheel. The best of both worlds. Go Porshe!!!

 

[AW4G63]

Manual is all in the person buying it. Some people are born for stick and some arent! And about no one using autos look at burschurs car he has one of the elite DSM's and he runs an auto! *(Far from the auto you'll have)

 

[blath]

I love auto. It works for me. Thanks to the decent discusses for either type of transmission.

I would love to learn manual someday, but for some reason *guilty look* people are squirmish about sharing their toys with me. But hey someday.

Anyway I live in a very hilly area. Traffic is rated #2 worst in the nation. I don't need any excuses though, but there you are if you need them to move on with your day. If they aren't enough thanks for caring.

Enjoy the day and never forget your lucky either way for driving a DSM.

 

[97GSTURBO]

I've got an auto, I wanted a manual when I was shopping, but the only manuals that I found when I was shopping where red and I don't want a red car, I also don't want to have to repaint it. I also had pressure from my fiance to buy an auto because she doesn't like driving manual. N-E-way I've had the car for a year and a half now, and I'm not getting rid of it for a manual, nor am I going to convert it. I'm looking at the level ten transmition, torque converter, and shiftronic transmition kit.

For those of you who have a manual and think that makes you faster... That's BS, I've done the same mods to a 95 5-speed and yeah it's a little faster off the line, but I stay right with it!

 

[johnfsmith]

If you like to do burnouts and pretend your a race car driver go with the stick.... I have an auto and love it! I don't try to pretend to be "speed racer" like most kids do! Is just depends on what you like. And for the comment "autos are for %&#$%" all I can say is try posting somthing helpful instead of being a PUNK ASS #@%#@%#@%#@%#@%!

 

[99gsx]

5 sp would smoke any automatic anyday and i say this from experiance. I have never lost to an automatic before except last month when i raced a supra.

 

[DSSA]

Originally posted by 99gsx
5 sp would smoke any automatic anyday and i say this from experiance. I have never lost to an automatic before except last month when i raced a supra.

"Experience". What kinda comment is that? Tell you what. Let me thow an automatic in any of my last 4-5 cars and make a pass with it. If the transmission holds up to any of them, I *guarantee* you'll be singing a different story of "experience".

If you want to make comments like this, at least give some background info on the other car. If you raced a car with a similar setup and it was auto, and you won, *then* maybe your comment would have some weight.

I've smoked automatic Supras. Does that mean 5-speed is faster than an auto too?

 

[benleyd19tx]

As far as Japanese cars go.... an automative means nothing but convenience, and will suck for racing. Domestic cars are about the only ones I've ever seen that make good automatics, like the turbohydramatic from the 70's. Manual is the only way to go for japanese performance and they're more fun. Some-times a P.I.T.A though.

 

[BMP Racing]

I must say this has been a really funny thread. I get a good laugh when anyone is totally biased on one platform and hammers the rest. Many are quick to bash anything other than a 5-speed AWD turbo car. When it comes down to it, it is a matter of personal preferance. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. I own a '90 GSX AWD 5-speed and a '96 TSI AWD auto. The 90 is my shop/work car with a big 16G, exhaust, etc. The '96 is a street/race car with a T66 and full supports. Why the heavy auto 2G for a race car? It is WAY more forgiving on driveline parts. The worst driveline faliure I have heard of was stripped front axles after a hard 5000 rpm launch under full boost with a 150 shot of nitrous. This was at the track on slicks and in a low 11 sec. car at the time. Also, has anyone ever heard of crankwalk in a 2G auto. If anyone can confirm a documented case I would like to hear about it. As for the command shifting, I will be running a programmable controller to take care of the transmission shifting. The trans will be shifted via a two button Sparco steering wheel. This system will enable the car to be "locked" into each gear on command. No more being limited to the stock TCM. It will upshift and downshift only when a button is pressed. It will also yield an instant shift. I will be running the converter lockup via the new AEM EMS system. The biggest hurdle for an auto car at this point is getting it to leave the line hard without nitrous with a big turbo. There are several companies building converters that flash stall in the high 2000 to low 3000 rpm range. Bigger turbo's require a healthy stall to allow it to flash stall on the line and leave with good boost. Optimum is to have a converter flash stall (pressing on the gas with no brake applied) to where the turbo is building good boost. Precision has a billet converter that is working out with good results. As for dropping out of boost or the "powerband"? All of my datalogs from last year show that the rpm's never dropped below 5200 rpm at a 7500 shift point. As stated in an earlier post the boost holds at peak until you let off of the gas. I would get 2 pound spike up inbetween shifts. You never get that boost drop like on Gran Turismo in auto mode. Now some food for thought. Imagine a manually shifted auto transmission, high stall converter combo that would achieve boost at any speed in any gear with a huge turbo. Gear selection on the street would be less of an issue, right? Also think about shifting at 10,000 rpm if the engine was built to handle it. It could be done. As of this year there has been an uprising of interest in making the DSM autos more competetive from several companies and freelance machinists. I will be testing the load capabilities on my cars auto trans soon as my T-66 car will finally be running next weekend. Bottom line, buy and drive or race what YOU want!

Brad


BTW Kevin Kwiatkowski's FWD auto car is in the top 10 fastest of all DSM's. He just narrowly edged out Russ Coxe's AWD auto for the 10th spot. Do they put their makeup on when they are making passes at the track? I don't know, you'll have to ask them!

 

[RacerX]

Wow...this was a nice thread to read. All forums have one or two of these Auto/Manual debates. I have and Auto and I am happy. The downside in my opinion is that with increased power, you have increased wear on the tranny. I now have a slipping tranny, which will soon be rebuilt with a shift kit, but I have raced many 5 speeds and it just really depends on skills. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned 'Manually' Shifting the Automatic. (1,2,D, OD). BUY WHAT YOU WANT!!! Test drive both and choose for urself. Later.

 

[BMP Racing]

Originally posted by dontknowalot
WHAT WOULD BE BETTER FOR HAVING FUN AND RACING AN AUTO OR 5 SPEED IS THERE ANY COMANY THAT MAKES A STALL WITH A HIGHER STALL SPEED THEN STOCK AND DO ANY ONE MAKE A SHIFT KIT THATS FOR THE HELP

Sorry for not elaborating on the original posters question. I really enjoy slamming gears on a 5-speed and I think button shifting the auto trans will elevate its fun factor. As for racing, there are two auto standout cars that are running mid 10's. Kevin K's FWD I feel is a deep low 10 sec. car if he can get his 60' times down. His best pass is a 10.55 at 135 mph with a 1.75 '60 time. The auto trans will absorb more power than a 5-speed. 5-8% more might be a ballpark figure. With an auto tranny you have the conveience of never missing a gear and consistency. I am running a Translab shift kit, Alto end clutch and Dunrite high stall converter. I will not know where its flash stall is until I get the running and tuned. It should be around 3100-3400 rpm. All of these parts are available from Dunrite converters. Contact Tony Garcin at: 626-442-1404. He has contributed a ton to the DSM community and is a torque converter and transmission specialist.

Below is my opinion on the subject:
I could have built any DSM for racing I wanted. 1G, 2G 6-bolt, AWD, FWD, auto or manual. I was not limited to what was in my shop or what I was driving at the time. I choose to daily drive a 5-speed and race an auto. I feel the autos are gaining more respect in the racing community because of the times of the two quickest cars. I know there are good things to come so I am not going to jump ship and buy a 5-speed car or do a 5-speed swap into my race car. I have had insight on the prototype parts and what will be built for over a year now. Good things are to come.

Brad

 

[Pico]

I really have to agree with anyone who said it depends on the person. I wanted a manual. But I couldnt find one that i thougth was worth it in my price range. And I ran across my auto. Manuals give you something to do something to think about. But I dont like these short 1/4 mile races id rather name a place and race to it. And I like auto for that. If I had my choice I would have had a manual. But all this manuals beat autos any time its bull. It depends on the person the length of the race if its a course or drag. You just gotta think about it then decide wether you want a manual or an auto. And yeah that is true the 1-2-d-od takes s bit of timing and can cause you fall behind if you mess up.

 

[NauticaComp2001]

Not to bring up a batch of moldy cookies, but my last reply was really, really, typed bad! I just got a e-mail saying there were new replies, Very well stated Brad.

 

[NauticaComp2001]

Not to bring up a batch of moldy cookies, but my last reply was really, really, typed bad! I just got a e-mail saying there were new replies, Very well stated Brad.

 

[Sartuche24]

I have a 5 speed 95 TSi AWD and love it. I love driving and racing my 5 speed, but everybody has there own opinion. Get what you like and drive it. I like having controll over the transmission, I've raced an auto and there pretty nice if you have a shift kit for them. So everybody likes to drive 5 speeds or auto's and that is there prefrence. You need to choose that car that fills yours needs and wants.

 

[JEFFREYHANN]

just in my opinion, an auto is the way to go for drag racing. if you look and most doorslammers and econo dragsters, you will find a 2 speed powerglide. i have a 91 talon with an auto. i put a shift light in it and man. shift it at 6800 rpm. you never have to lift to shiftand it is always pulling. true , you do get turbo lag with an auto off the line. but if you add a 50 shot of nitrous and hit it just off the line to spool the turbo , you will do great. i have yet to break and axle or gears with an auto trans. this is just my opinion. and i woudl have to say that street driving a 5 speed would be more fun, but if you intent on dragracing it, go with an auto.

 

[punkreeves]

i just want to say i have an automatic and like it a lot. i have beaten some other dsm's that were manual. i just simply put mine in low and hit the power button. the automatic will shift in low by its self.(which a lot of cars don't. they just redline and stay that way and will blow the engine) is doing this the fastest way to drive the automatic or is there another way? but as far as i am concerned the manuals might be a bit faster but i think they are relatively close and i love my automatic.

 

[CornerHard]

The only advantage of automatic transmissions is ease of use. There are many, many disadvantages, which have been discussed already.

 

[johnfsmith]

Originally posted by CornerHard
The only advantage of automatic transmissions is ease of use. There are many, many disadvantages, which have been discussed already.

There are also many, many disadvantages, which have been discussed already about a 5 speed too!

 

[CornerHard]

Originally posted by Pico
I really have to agree with anyone who said it depends on the person. I wanted a manual. But I couldnt find one that i thougth was worth it in my price range. And I ran across my auto. Manuals give you something to do something to think about. But I dont like these short 1/4 mile races id rather name a place and race to it. And I like auto for that. If I had my choice I would have had a manual. But all this manuals beat autos any time its bull. It depends on the person the length of the race if its a course or drag. You just gotta think about it then decide wether you want a manual or an auto. And yeah that is true the 1-2-d-od takes s bit of timing and can cause you fall behind if you mess up.

You honestly think an auto is better in a road race than a stick? And please don't shift your car like that while driving. Could an AT knowledgable person explain what this is doing to the torque converter and why this is a lousy idea?

 

[CornerHard]

Originally posted by kylemoto
This has been a fun debate!

As for the road racing guys, I think they drive mostly auto boxes now - in F1, the a basic clutch is used for standing starts, paddles for everythign else. Sounds pretty automatic to me.

Kyle

An F1 transmission is a manual that is computer-controlled

Once again, the stock automatic transmission has very little in common with drag automatics or F1 paddle-shifted manuals.

This has got to be the dumbest thread I've read in quite a while.