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Ask your water alcohol injection questions here.

Posted by Devilsown, Mar 23, 2007

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  1. Scott McIntyre

    Scott McIntyre DSM Wiseman

    287
    38
    Joined Mar 15, 2002
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    I just got a water / meth injection kit, and after doing some research I think I've come up with a decent plan.... Just wanted to bounce it off the masses before I start drilling holes.

    • FP Big28 turbo (rated for 37 lb/min)
    • 660cc fuel injectors (not sure of IDC yet)
    • 20 psi (currently)

    I've got a Snow Performance progressive controller. My plan is to install an M5 (6.7GPH / 422.7 ml/min) nozzle in the FMIC outlet pipe, and another 175ml/min (2.8GPH or ~M2) nozzle about 6-8" pre-turbo, all with a 50/50 water & methanol mix.

    The pump will be mounted in the rear using the stock windshield washer reservoir, and I'll use a DevilsOwn check valve & dual-nozzle kit.


    1. Do these nozzle sizes sound about right for my setup?
    2. Any concerns about vacuum pulling fluid out of the short sections of tubing between the nozzles & check valve?
    3. Can siphoning occur through the check valve under vacuum (pre and/or post turbo)?

    Thanks.
     

    2K  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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  2. v8killer

    v8killer Proven Member

    364
    2
    Joined Oct 4, 2002
    harlan, Kentucky

    the boost a pump starts out at what ever voltage it sees 13.5-14.0v and boosts it up to 17.5v with the knob full turn. it doesn't lower the voltage ! i have mine wired up so that the boost switch kicks on the boost a pump which turns the alky pump on and the solenoid at the same time ! seems to work for the first 8-10 runs little to no knock !
     

    425  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    manual · 1G DSM
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  3. ApexVIII

    ApexVIII Proven Member

    711
    2
    Joined Jan 12, 2008
    Modesto, California
    can i run 100% meth injection using the windshield washer tank? or will that mess up the windshield washer pump's?

    i think that it would, but i figured i would ask
     
  4. awdwhip

    awdwhip Proven Member

    186
    0
    Joined Jan 29, 2005
    San Diego, California
    Take the pumps out and plug the holes.
     

    462  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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  5. ApexVIII

    ApexVIII Proven Member

    711
    2
    Joined Jan 12, 2008
    Modesto, California
    thats what i was thinking

    thanks!
     
  6. dsmtalontsi95

    dsmtalontsi95 Proven Member

    189
    1
    Joined Nov 5, 2007
    glenvile, Pennsylvania
    Ok this is a little wierd, My name is Chance too! From what I read when meth injenction was first talked about was that you could use straight windsheild wiper fluid. Doesn't it contain something like 50% h2o, 49%methenal, and 1% of other?
     
  7. Scoped_GST

    Scoped_GST Proven Member

    59
    0
    Joined Oct 18, 2004
    Thousand Oaks, California
    yea the -32 degree windshield washer fluid is 50/50 i believe.

    ive been running 100% methanol for almost a year now with my EvoIIIGT Chinese knockoff 16g anywhere from 27-30psi and i tuned it quickly for a 10.9 AFR recently, timing is around 15 degrees with no knock. had it around 11.4 before i installed headgasket and studs to be safe and havent had the motivation to tune it since. feels pretty quick but ive lost 1st and 2nd with 235's attempting to hook up.

    16g turbo, 550cc's at 80% IDC, 10.9 AFR (innovative wideband), one 10gph nozzle, pump at 150psi. should i be tuning for more timing with more fuel? or same timing with a leaner tune?
     
    Scoped_GST

    427  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    14.815 @ 92.230 · 2G DSM
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  8. Calan

    Calan DSM Wiseman

    6,015
    267
    Joined Jan 16, 2007
    OKC, Oklahoma
    A 16G at 27-30 psi at 10.9 AFR, and 550's running only 80% IDC's?

    Just out of curiosity, how much air are you flowing?
     

    3K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    15.2 @ 89.300 · 1G DSM
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  9. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

    8,218
    89
    Joined Jul 11, 2004
    Bloxom, Virginia
    At the most, wiper fluid is 40% meth. And most wiper fluids are under 36% meth. Look up the MSDS for your brand choice. It will tell you.
     

    2K  0

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 1G DSM
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  10. ->PrOjEcTGS<-

    ->PrOjEcTGS<- Proven Member

    1,786
    19
    Joined Oct 14, 2002
    , Missouri
    I'm not him but my S16G at 25-27psi at 11.0-11.5 AFR with 650's at 70% IDC is flowing about 36lb/min
     
  11. awdwhip

    awdwhip Proven Member

    186
    0
    Joined Jan 29, 2005
    San Diego, California
    Hope this helps you guys out
     

    Attached Files:

    462  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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  12. ->PrOjEcTGS<-

    ->PrOjEcTGS<- Proven Member

    1,786
    19
    Joined Oct 14, 2002
    , Missouri
    Not really... That list is so old... Walmart doesn't even carry the Supertech brand anymore. Most of the MSDS sheets I have found online just by searching for the brand.
     
  13. awdwhip

    awdwhip Proven Member

    186
    0
    Joined Jan 29, 2005
    San Diego, California
    Eh, well atleast I tried.:thumb:
     

    462  0

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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  14. Devilsown

    Devilsown Proven Member

    153
    3
    Joined Apr 4, 2006
    Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
    when in doubt get the cheap brand, Usually it has the most meth and does not have any of the extra crap.
     
  15. brassc2007

    brassc2007 Proven Member

    374
    5
    Joined Jan 31, 2008
    mason city, Iowa
    Alright i have been looking into building a water or methanol injection for my car and have found a decent design. The only problem is i am worried about how to control the flow and how it will effect my car.
    methanolinjection.jpg
    The switch that they are using in this kit is a Hobbs pressure switch part # 701-1575, and is supposibly adjustable. and they are using a SHURflo pump #8009-543-236, along with a mcmaster carr water solenoid P/N# 7876K12. I have tried to do some extensive research and there is alot of information out there but i feel it is very opinionated, and need a little help bringing this setup to what will almost be a close to perfect setup in my car. Therefore trying to think of most of the possible problems that i may encounter before i install it since i am very new to the meth injection scene and don't feel confident enough to go into this blind and possibly water lock or destroy my motor at the moment. Any help from anyone that is running a meth kit or has done a little research on them would be greatly appreciated. I am very curious to find out how large of a nozzle people are running and how they are accurately controlling the flow and pressure of these systems without running digital injection.
     

    417  0

    1997 Eagle Talon N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
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  16. 1gDSM4g63

    1gDSM4g63 Proven Member

    1,762
    7
    Joined Aug 28, 2007
    San Jose, California
    Looks like you done you research on the basic, but just buy a kit to be on the safe side. A progressive controller that injects more or less according throttle and whatnot will do wonders.
     

    713  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  17. brassc2007

    brassc2007 Proven Member

    374
    5
    Joined Jan 31, 2008
    mason city, Iowa
    the only problem is that a actual kit cost hundreds, say 400 dollars, I also looked into it a little bit more and i believe that the pressure switch that i have listed is vacuumed controlled, and adjustable so that would help to tune that in a little more closely depending on when i want it to come on. I'm curious as to weather there is a cheaper pump out there that would do the same. For example would a windshield washer pump be able to do this job and be more compacted and easy to hide then a big pump? I am just confused as to why the pump has to be so large.

    I mean think about it when you spray your windshield that is a very good mist with good pressure but will the size of the nozzle determine as to how much will be sprayed at once or will there need to be some sort of pressure regulator for example on this.

    i just looked into the windshield washer pump a little more and the pump that is listed above is a 1.8gpm pump which is very large, but on the other side i have found washer fluid pumps that go up to 3 gpm i mean is this possible? This is very interesting and confusing topic!
     

    417  0

    1997 Eagle Talon N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
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  18. 1gDSM4g63

    1gDSM4g63 Proven Member

    1,762
    7
    Joined Aug 28, 2007
    San Jose, California
    A windshield washer water pump isn't going to work. It's not powerful enough and won't spray into throttle body.
     

    713  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  19. brassc2007

    brassc2007 Proven Member

    374
    5
    Joined Jan 31, 2008
    mason city, Iowa
    alright just curious, just for the sake of asking is there any specific reasons as to why, if it flows the same gpm whats really the difference
     

    417  0

    1997 Eagle Talon N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
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  20. ApexVIII

    ApexVIII Proven Member

    711
    2
    Joined Jan 12, 2008
    Modesto, California
    yea, that pump wont cut it

    my methanol injection pump, is adjustable from 150 to 250PSI, i have it set at 200 psi.
     
  21. brassc2007

    brassc2007 Proven Member

    374
    5
    Joined Jan 31, 2008
    mason city, Iowa
    k that's pretty reasonable. So is this setup listed above a reasonable design or is it way off compared to what you are running i'm trying to do this on a lower budget, if i had to money i would go with forged internals and so on but this is the only thing i can really afford to do at the present time.
     

    417  0

    1997 Eagle Talon N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  22. 1gDSM4g63

    1gDSM4g63 Proven Member

    1,762
    7
    Joined Aug 28, 2007
    San Jose, California
    GPM, gallon per minute, doesn't say about the amount of psi the pump can do.
     

    713  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  23. brassc2007

    brassc2007 Proven Member

    374
    5
    Joined Jan 31, 2008
    mason city, Iowa
    what would you recommend for the lowest amount of psi for this to even be functional?

    sorry bout before i for some reason didn't take into consideration that there would need to be that much pressure for this system to run operationally.
     

    417  0

    1997 Eagle Talon N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
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  24. rbwtrans

    rbwtrans Proven Member

    219
    1
    Joined Sep 3, 2006
    pensacola, Florida
    The injector nozzle will require a specific amount of pressure to spray correctly. (not unlike your fuel injectors.) The washer pump will not build enough pressure. GPH is measured free flowing not restricted, therefore a higher GPH pump is required for the nozzle to spray and to flow. I'm not sure how it's done, but the progressive controllers provide more flow at higher boost and RPM levels. That, to me, would be worth the wait (to save up) and the money. Good luck with your project.
     
  25. brassc2007

    brassc2007 Proven Member

    374
    5
    Joined Jan 31, 2008
    mason city, Iowa
    ok on that note is anyone running a progressive setup and if so what was the price that you payed and the quality of the systems.

    and how does the progressive system operate?
     

    417  0

    1997 Eagle Talon N/T
    manual · 2G DSM
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