Archer Bros. Racing Talon Resurrection

[Phil1320]

I agree it would be a shame to chop up the #32 car; but that's just my opinion. I have preserved the #33 car as it raced years ago.

These cars can still make fun track day cars just as they were constructed years ago - with appropriate safety updates and maintenance done. The Thrifty #32 car was really the first road racing DSM that I remember as a kid.

As was mentioned above, there are a lot of shells available for cheap that could be built up if needed.

I hope he leaves it as is.

There were lots of 1G Talons that the Archer Brothers had...up to five in the 1991 season if I remember correctly. However, who knows where they all ended up. I've been tracking as many of the cars as possible, and there are some that I just have never seen. I think all of the 2G cars have been dismantled or painted over.

I consider myself a bit of a historian relative to the DSM road racing stuff. I've been actively searching for info for the last 6 years. I actually have some cool info on your #33 car and it's driver, Willy Lewis. Each 1G Archer championship car has some really good significance. Let me know if you'd be interested in seeing some of this stuff.

 

[schemauer]

I'm always interested in learning more on the car. I too have a collection of articles, dealership info, press packets on the 1g and 2g cars. I've talked to the Archer's about the car but they either can't remember much about the cars or are to busy or disinterested to talk about them. I've also tried to track down Willy Lewis witih no success.

Here is some info I found - I believe it was on the SCCA site at one point....

>>>>>>>>>
The Archer Racing Eagle Talon program dominated their classes for much of the early 90’s.

Archer Racing began the Eagle Talon program during the 1991 racing season. That year Mitch Wright earned the Eagle Talon it’s first class win.

In 1992 Neil Hannemann won the new Class D championship in the HighwayMaster Talon over teammate Bill Saunders.

In 1993 Class D disappeared as the Eagles moved into Class B with the BMW M3. Lou Gigliotti had won the Class B title the past two years, but could not overcome Willy Lewis in the Archer Brothers Eagle Talon.

Classes were renamed again in 1994 to World Challenge, Touring Car and Super Production. Neil Hanneman won his second championship in three years – this time in Touring Car with the Talon.

Year-By-Year Final Placings for the Archer Racing Eagle Talon Program:
1990 (Super Production Class)
1 – Bobby Archer
3 – Tommy Archer
4 – Mitch Wright

1991 (Super Production Class)
1 – Mitch Wright
5 – Tommy Archer
6 – Bobby Archer

1992 (Class D)
1 – Neil Hannemann
2 – Bill Saunders
4 – Oscar Peralta

1993 (Class B)
1 – Willy Lewis
3 – Neil Hannemann
5 – Paul Armstrong

1994 (Touring Car Class)
1 – Neil Hannemann
4 – Willy Lewis
5 – Paul Armstrong

1995 (Touring Class)
1 – Neil Hannemann
2 – Willy Lewis
5 – Paul Armstrong

1996 (Touring 1 Class)
2 – Willy Lewis
4 – Greg Theiss

Here is a group picture

Dave Wolin cars

 

[Phil1320]

If you want to toss some pics up of the articles, press packets etc, that you have first...I'll look them over so I don't throw stuff up that you already have. That would save us both time in the long run. I've got ALOT of info.....

I've seen what you've posted above before, however the second statement is incorrect right out of the gate as the Archer's debuted the Talon in April of 1989 at Sears Point, Sonoma, CA.

 

[underradar92]

Which, if any, of the Archer cars are AWD? Scott, I do know that your Talon is FWD but I am under the impression that some of the early cars were competitive as AWD. Is this the case?

In any case, I agree that these cars and all retired, famous race cars, should remain as-raced or as close as possible. Invisible upgrades and reversible enhancements would be ok but to significantly alter the nature of what is an historical artifact, and a fun drive to boot, when so many shells are available, cheap, just seems like a bad idea.

 

[Phil1320]

Which, if any, of the Archer cars are AWD? Scott, I do know that your Talon is FWD but I am under the impression that some of the early cars were competitive as AWD. Is this the case?

In any case, I agree that these cars and all retired, famous race cars, should remain as-raced or as close as possible. Invisible upgrades and reversible enhancements would be ok but to significantly alter the nature of what is an historical artifact, and a fun drive to boot, when so many shells are available, cheap, just seems like a bad idea.

Jim, in the picture above, the #32 all the way to the left is AWD, that's Bobby Archer's car, And, Tommy Archer drove the #33. They were run in the 1989 season. During Endurance races, both brothers generally drove in the #32 car.

All of the other 1G cars are FWD.....

Then when the 2G came for the '94 season thru the '96 season, they were AWD again...

Scott's #33 car got the turbo back due to class changes and release of eligible cars such as the new at the time Toyota MR2 Turbo.

 

[schemauer]

I was under the impression that most of the 1g cars were FWD. My #33 car is FWD and I know that the #32 Thrifty car is FWD. One thing I wonder is how many cars of each number may have been out there at some point. In the picture above you can see two #33 cars, mine is the one on the right.

With a little searching yesterday I found the '91 #34 Archer for sale out on the east coast.

And this car, which was shown on the Cassaro Enterprises site as one they raced in an enduracne race. It is shown in some shop pictures as #34, and then looks like it was re-numbered to #38 when they raced it. Is this the same #34 car that is now the one for sale on the east coast?

 

[Phil1320]

I was under the impression that most of the 1g cars were FWD. My #33 car is FWD and I know that the #32 Thrifty car is FWD. One thing I wonder is how many cars of each number may have been out there at some point. In the picture above you can see two #33 cars, mine is the one on the right.

With a little searching yesterday I found the '91 #34 Archer for sale out on the east coast.

And this car, which was shown on the Cassaro Enterprises site as one they raced in an enduracne race. It is shown in some shop pictures as #34, and then looks like it was re-numbered to #38 when they raced it. Is this the same #34 car that is now the one for sale on the east coast?

Scott, your impression is correct......seasons '90, '91, '92, and '93 were all FWD cars. '90=turbo '91=non-turbo, '92=non-turbo, '93(your car and a few others that year)=turbo. The '94 season debuted the 2G cars and they were AWD.

The first season the Archer's ran the Talons.....again.....1989...they were all AWD. They almost weren't able to run the AWD car. But, the SCCA agreed and off they went.

The other #33 car in the pic above was the non-turbo '92 champ car that was driven by Neil Hanneman.

There was only one of any number car for each year. If you look way back at Bobby & Tommy in their racing career, the numbers 32 & 33 were used.

I've seen numbered Archer Talons as low as 30 and as high as 35.

Funny you post up the pictures of the #34, and yes, that is the car for sale here on the east coast. That is the car right in the center in the group pic of all the champ cars above. I've been tracking the car for years now. When I found Cassaro, the car had been recently sold, but he sent me a CD of a bunch of pics from that endurance race. They had to change the number to #38 as there was already a #34 in the race.....crazy.....too bad they pulled the original livery off the car. Then with the next owner or the current owner, more of the livery was pulled from the doors. Bummer.

Anyway....it may be sitting in my garage soon.......I'm going to visit it this weekend....so I might finally have an Archer car

Last, you might enjoy this thread from start to finish:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/han...4g63-goodness-ads-commercials-tuning-etc.html

 

[schemauer]

Good info - I actually connected with Cassarro today before reading your post and he confirmed that they renumbered the #34 car to #38 as you mention.......

>>>
Hi Scott,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you but I am setting up at the Race and Performance Expo in St. Charles, IL. The car was renumbered from #34 to #38 for the endurance race. I sold it to a person who lived near Watkins Glen. If you send me a reminder next week I will see if I still have the records of the sale with his name.
>>>

 

[Phil1320]

Good info - I actually connected with Cassarro today before reading your post and he confirmed that they renumbered the #34 car to #38 as you mention.......

>>>
Hi Scott,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you but I am setting up at the Race and Performance Expo in St. Charles, IL. The car was renumbered from #34 to #38 for the endurance race. I sold it to a person who lived near Watkins Glen. If you send me a reminder next week I will see if I still have the records of the sale with his name.
>>>

Cool! He's a nice guy. Most of my info is packed away right now as I'm in the middle of a move. When I dig it up I'll most likely make a new thread as this one is pretty dated and not terribly active.

Which, if any, of the Archer cars are AWD? Scott, I do know that your Talon is FWD but I am under the impression that some of the early cars were competitive as AWD. Is this the case?

In any case, I agree that these cars and all retired, famous race cars, should remain as-raced or as close as possible. Invisible upgrades and reversible enhancements would be ok but to significantly alter the nature of what is an historical artifact, and a fun drive to boot, when so many shells are available, cheap, just seems like a bad idea.

I'm glad you agree with me on this one. I'm imagining alot of these cars were dismantled and sold for parts as many of them had no VIN #s. The #32 Thrify Rental car actually has a VIN on the dash if I remember correctly. Who knows how many times parts were swapped, changed, with parts cars etc. There's definitely alot of mystery for sure.

I'm always interested in learning more on the car. I too have a collection of articles, dealership info, press packets on the 1g and 2g cars. I've talked to the Archer's about the car but they either can't remember much about the cars or are to busy or disinterested to talk about them.

I've been in contact with Archer Racing over the years and agreed, most people there don't really know a whole heck of alot.

However maybe 5-6 years back I talked with a guy that knew a bit and he ended up sending me a packet with some 2G Talon stuff. That was pretty cool of them. But that's it.

 

[underradar92]

Anyway....it may be sitting in my garage soon.......I'm going to visit it this weekend....so I might finally have an Archer car

Excellent, hope everything falls your way on this.

 

[Phil1320]

Excellent, hope everything falls your way on this.

Thanks! It will definitely be down to how I feel when I get around the car. If it sparks nostalgia and somehow attatches me to a time in racing that I wish I was a part of, well then it will be easy. If for some reason it doesn't get me all warm and fuzzy...then I guess I stay as I am, a very interested historian of sorts.

However, I doubt I won't be into it!

 

[schemauer]

Has anyone bought that #34 yet? I know of a few people who had some interest. Apparently it was purchased from the Archers by Chuck Cassaro. He renumbered it #38 and ran the endurance race with it then sold it to someone out east.... but not the person who currently owns and is selling it..

 

[Phil1320]

Has anyone bought that #34 yet? I know of a few people who had some interest. Apparently it was purchased from the Archers by Chuck Cassaro. He renumbered it #38 and ran the endurance race with it then sold it to someone out east.... but not the person who currently owns and is selling it..

To my knowledge....Cassaro was the first owner after the Archers'. Did he tell you that? I don't remember that from when I spoke with him 3-4 years back. However, I'm wondering if it came out of the same collection that your car was part of when Jim Dale bought it, along with Bobby Archer's Thrifty sponsored #32.

After Cassaro, a gentleman in the Rochester, NY area bought it. So, far, what I know is that it was used as an instruction car for the most part. I know the car has been seen at Watkins Glen International.

So, that means the car is at it's third owner now.

And, about to be with it's 4th owner, , if our information is correct.

Here's a shot taken of the One Lap of America Galant VR-4 at WGI. You can see good ole #34 in the background.

 

[snowborder714]

Out of curiosity, where/how do you guys find that these cars are for sale?

 

[Phil1320]

Out of curiosity, where/how do you guys find that these cars are for sale?

Whelp, when I was going to buy the #32 1990 Thrifty car....I found the classified ad in A 2009 Grassroots Motorsports issue. A friend of a friend who is very involved in SCCA and rally/hillclimb sent my friend a link from the IT forums, which he then forwarded me last fall sometime. Since the #34 was being set up to run ITA as you see in decal on the doors, the current owner started advertising there first. Other than that, the car has not been marketed hotly yet.

These Archer cars are very hard to find. The ONLY ones I know of that resemble or are still in "as raced" condition are the three that you see in this thread:

1990: Bobby Archer #32 Thrifty Rental sponsored SCCA Champ car
1991: Mitch Wright #34 Archer Brothers SCCA Champ Car
1993: Willy Lewis #33 Archer Brothers/Mirage SCCA Champ car

I've found what appear to be Archer built Talons for sale, but the cars have been painted, and livery removed. Hard to say what exact year they are. There were many of these cars and unfortunately, I think most are gone, stripped for parts, etc.

I have NEVER seen any of the 1989 season AWD Archer cars or the 1992 season 1GB normally aspirated cars in circulation, just in era race pics. Also, the 2G cars.....Ive seen a few, Spirit of Daytona had one that they raced in the Rolex a couple years, but it was either just a car built by the Archers, or it was one that the Archer Brothers campaigned. It's hard to know for sure. Here's that link:

http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/other/1183477161/1183477161ss.htm

I search all the time for these cars and the Eagle Talons of Paul Rossi Racing that were run in IMSA Firestone Firehawk, IMSA Luk Clutch Challenge, and IMSA Toyo Tires series. I've never found one.

Here is an example of what I think may be a sister car to the 1993 #33 Willy Lewis car or a 1992 season normally aspirated car. It is advertised as built by Archer Brothers, but gives no race history for the car. It states it's turbocharged, which would say to me it's from the 1993 season, but, it wears the wheels from the 1990 and 1991 seasons. So, were the BBS wheels sold or was a turbo motor swapped in? The ad says from Day 1 the car has been in Canada. Who knows, but, my educated guess says this car might have been run originally by the Archer Brothers Team in 1992-1993. Two different paint jobs advertised as the same car. This is from race-cars.com, another place I frequently check for these cars to pop up...the link:

http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/other/1053634814/1053634814ss.htm

 

[schemauer]

I bought my #33 car from that exact same ad in Grassroots Motorpsorts in 2005. Jim from Arkansas at that time owned the #33 car and also the #32 car. He had listed them for sale in GRM. I considered both, but ended up buying the #33 car. You'll see in some of my earlier posts some pics of the #32 car that Jim had sent me back in 2005.

Phil - Chuck Cassaro said he bought his #34 car directly from Archer. He then sold it to this person: GREG STERMAN GENEVA, NY 14456. I've not asked, but I'm assuming that Jeff, the current owner that is selling the car, purchased the car from Greg. This, again, is the original #34 Archer car that was renumbered #38 buy Cassaro.

Jim Dale told me that he had purchased both the cars from the David Nielsen collection in Traverse City MI in 2001. Jim had owned them since 2001, I bought the #33 car in 2005 from Jim. Prior to them being owned by Nielsen Jim had told me that they were still owned by the Archers.

I also know of only the three cars that you list still in existence. I'd like to see a few more pop up, especially the early AWD cars, but who knows where that stuff ended up - or even if the Archers parted some of them out - or used parts from the early cars on later builds? I've attached a pic of the cover that goes over the fuel cell in my #33 car. It is marked "3-30-93 Willy", for Willy Lewis who did drive the '93 #33 car, but it is also marked "Car 30". So it may have been passed on from the earlier #30 car??

 

[Phil1320]

I bought my #33 car from that exact same ad in Grassroots Motorpsorts in 2005. Jim from Arkansas at that time owned the #33 car and also the #32 car. He had listed them for sale in GRM. I considered both, but ended up buying the #33 car. You'll see in some of my earlier posts some pics of the #32 car that Jim had sent me back in 2005.

Phil - Chuck Cassaro said he bought his #34 car directly from Archer. He then sold it to this person: GREG STERMAN GENEVA, NY 14456. I've not asked, but I'm assuming that Jeff, the current owner that is selling the car, purchased the car from Greg. This, again, is the original #34 Archer car that was renumbered #38 buy Cassaro.

Jim Dale told me that he had purchased both the cars from the David Nielsen collection in Traverse City MI in 2001. Jim had owned them since 2001, I bought the #33 car in 2005 from Jim. Prior to them being owned by Nielsen Jim had told me that they were still owned by the Archers.

I also know of only the three cars that you list still in existence. I'd like to see a few more pop up, especially the early AWD cars, but who knows where that stuff ended up - or even if the Archers parted some of them out - or used parts from the early cars on later builds? I've attached a pic of the cover that goes over the fuel cell in my #33 car. It is marked "3-30-93 Willy", for Willy Lewis who did drive the '93 #33 car, but it is also marked "Car 30". So it may have been passed on from the earlier #30 car??

Ok cool! Glad to know Chuck confirmed that info! I remember Chuck saying he sold to a guy in NY but I didn't ask who that was or anything.

And, yes, Jeff got the car from Greg....the pic above at Watkins would be under Greg's ownership. There's also a vid from another car that the #34 shows up in at Watkins. Probably from the 1 Lap Galant that's in the pic above...I can't remember now.

Ok....yeah I never saw the ad in 2005 GRM for both cars...would love to see it!
I have the ad just for the #32 car. I was in touch with Jim Dale for several months....he sent me all those pics of the #32 and the spec sheet. He was actually holding the car for me while I built up the $ to get it. That's when I lost my job and was forced to call him and say to let the car go as previously stated.

I wonder if David Nielsen had other Archer cars? Jim Dale said when he got there, #32 & #33 were the only two there if I remember correctly.

I tried searching David Nielsen to call him or email him to find out more info, no luck there. Have you tried?

Certain parts from the 1989 season AWD cars could have been passed down, but, not drivetrain stuff. That is the only year that they used 1G AWD cars. AWD came back in '94, in 2G config.

I started a thread a few days back but had it removed. I thought it was too broad....so I'm gonna be starting an Archer Brothers Only Thread after my move this week. However, here's some quick info for you that I will re-state in the new thread:

1989 season:

2 cars- #31 & #32

There was a 3rd *Archer Prepped* white Talon at the Mosport 24

1990 season:

3 cars- #32, #33, & #34

1991 season:

4 cars- #30(here's where your part came from,) #31, #34, & #35

1992 season:

4 cars- #3(barely used,) #31(barely used,) #33, & #35

1993 season:

3 cars- #32, #33(your car), & #34

1994 season(2G cars):

3 cars- #32, #33, & #34

1995 season:

3 cars- #32, #33, & #34

I didn't check the '96 season info but I'm assuming it's the same line up as '94-'95




So, the piece you have for your #33, came from the 1991 season #30 normally aspirated car.


If the two 1989 season AWD cars ever surfaced I think there would be a bidding war

But there were only two cars....who knows what happend with them. Maybe Chrysler wanted them back or at least the #32 champ car. #31 was driven mostly by R.K. Smith and the '92, '94, & '95 Champ, Neil Hanneman.

Last....I'll be picking up good ole #34 in about 2-3 weeks.....Finally, I have an Archer Champ Car

Very excited!

 

[arrowhead]

Would love to see any of these cars in competition again, they were mean,

And even worse would like to pair up with them, I am still a little stinging from when they surprised the SHI.... out of me as I could not keep up with them w/ a 427 Corvette, that was very competitive. But now as I learn more about these cars I can see why and dont feel so bad about it.

Wish I could find some pictures that I believe I had, but I think hurricane Andrew took them.

arrowhead

 

[schemauer]

Phil - do you have anything you want to share with us???????????

 

[tstkl]

I found this old photograph of my car in the early years.

I know where this body kit currently rests, .

 

[Phil1320]

Would love to see any of these cars in competition again, they were mean,

And even worse would like to pair up with them, I am still a little stinging from when they surprised the SHI.... out of me as I could not keep up with them w/ a 427 Corvette, that was very competitive. But now as I learn more about these cars I can see why and dont feel so bad about it.

Wish I could find some pictures that I believe I had, but I think hurricane Andrew took them.

arrowhead

That's a cool story....not too many people expect much out of the old DSMs on the roadcourse because they are so popular in the drag race world.

Oh wow, sorry to hear that.....hopefully you can find something that didn't get taken.

Phil - do you have anything you want to share with us???????????

Hmmmm....I'm lost a bit.....didn't I just do that?! ^^^^^^^^

Can you be more specific?

 

[schemauer]

Sorry - Didn't see your note about buying the car. I had e-mailed Jeff again to see what was going on with it.....

...So now back to the #32 Thrifty car. Is that thing getting chopped up, or do we know what is going on with it?

 

[Phil1320]

Sorry - Didn't see your note about buying the car. I had e-mailed Jeff again to see what was going on with it.....

...So now back to the #32 Thrifty car. Is that thing getting chopped up, or do we know what is going on with it?

I'm totally lost with you.

I just gave you some info on where your #30 part came from and you don't even acknowledge.

I just talked about picking up the #34 car and you didn't really acknowledge that either.

Now, we're back on the #32 car? I don't know anything about the new owner.

What am I missing?

 

[underradar92]

Last....I'll be picking up good ole #34 in about 2-3 weeks.....Finally, I have an Archer Champ Car

Very excited!

This seems to be an important development.

Is this a part of what you are inquiring about, Scott?

Congrat's if this happens/has happened, Phil.

 

[schemauer]

I was just trying to get back to the #32 car that was mentioned here back in mid Feb. There was a post regarding the #32 car from a friend of the owner and the possibility of it being modified.

>>>>>>>>>>>>
my friend out of arkansas actually bought one of them as well. this one was raced in a no engine mod class, as it didnt have ANY engine work done. we ran it a hallet raceway outside of Tulsa, OK and it was good. ran with the spec miata on a Coma race(sp?), it has a welded or locker diff in it, and would FLY by all the cars in the straights , but miatas corner so well . it was good fun. i actaully helped him push it back up into the garage the other week, i think hes planning on making to a full race car. some engine mods, lots of suspension work etc.

this is a picture from the track, i think they ran a washer/restrictor in the coolant housing inside of a thermo. so it was taking FOREVER to warm up , so we had to tape plates to the front in order to make the car get hot enough to not be puffin smoke . absolutely love this car.
>>>>>>>>>>>>