My Archer Brothers Racing SCCA World Challenge Championship Winning Eagle Talons

[Phil1320]

Some more photos of #32:

 

[1qkfwd]

Whats the ducting in the fifth pic down??

 

[Phil1320]

Whats the ducting in the fifth pic down??

That's coming from the factory fuel filler opening down to the fuel cell....

 

[Jay Cooper]

I'm pretty surprised at the basic roll cage design mistakes.

 

[Phil1320]

I'm pretty surprised at the basic roll cage design mistakes.

Not sure what "mistakes" you're referring to, however, keep in mind that this car was prepared almost 25 years ago for the 1990 race season. I'm no cage builder in the slightest, but, I know in 25 years both rules and designs have changed several times. Comparing this cage design to something that a pro shop built recently is more than an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[Breezio69]

This is saaaaaaweeeeet, I came across the "vintage" thread in the hangout, which flashed these cars about every couple posts. Otherwise I would have no clue about archer or these two cars... its amazing that a few guys with a passion for racing and pushing nearly stock platforms to the limit could create much of the following these cars have today. Makes you proud to pop open the hood and see the potential (even more so today) that these guys saw 20+ years ago.... could you imagine if dsm link was around with these guys??? Haha, awesome cars!

 

[Phil1320]

Thanks! The vintage thread is one of my favs for sure. Glad you enjoy all this as well! Here's a couple more shots of #32 at Lime Rock Park in 2013:

 

[SBstar]

Nice updates Phil! It's neat to see the interior shots like that. Can't wait for more track pics though!

 

[Phil1320]

Nice updates Phil! It's neat to see the interior shots like that. Can't wait for more track pics though!

Thanks! Ask and you shall receive: LRP August 24, 2013 at speed....

 

[Jay Cooper]

Not sure what "mistakes" you're referring to, however, keep in mind that this car was prepared almost 25 years ago for the 1990 race season. I'm no cage builder

Pro built or not basic structural principals have been around longer than 25 years. Rear bars past the suspension is rookies copying rookies.

Cool car though

 

[Phil1320]

Pro built or not basic structural principals have been around longer than 25 years. Rear bars past the suspension is rookies copying rookies.

Cool car though

Ok, well I have no ideas about why a certain design was chosen or not. My other Archer Talon for the following season has the cage tied in at the rear shock mounts but also has bars that extend past to the same area as this car.

Not sure of what point you are trying to make here, but, calling the Archers' "rookies copying rookies" is pretty bold. I'm gathering you don't know too much about them. I'm sure whatever was done followed a rulebook and cars had to pass SCCA inspections constantly in order to compete. The Archer Brothers themselves and their team drivers have a large sum of national championships, not only in Eagle Talons.

 

[SBstar]

I'm fairly confident that the tech was pretty scrutinized in a professional racing series. Considering this cars past, I'm sure it met the standards of the day.

Beautiful shot of the car at LRP!

 

[RamenPride]

Pro built or not basic structural principals have been around longer than 25 years. Rear bars past the suspension is rookies copying rookies.

I'm sure the SCCA wouldn't have let them race for years with their amateur-designed roll cages.

 

[1qkfwd]

That's coming from the factory fuel filler opening down to the fuel cell....

For some reason I thought the filler was further back. Makes sense now.


Keep the pics a coming. These have to be the coolest cars in the DSM community right now.

 

[Pipnorcali]

Loving this thread..more pics please

 

[theoutlaw82]

I can try to get some other pics for you, no problem. I'm not certain of the manufacturers on these parts though, however, I can most likely find out for you. Thanks for the interest.

I'd love more details. As I said I have fwd too and would definitely like to know what the pros did to make this platform handle on the track. Especially in the rear.

 

[arrowhead]

This is saaaaaaweeeeet, I came across the "vintage" thread in the hangout, which flashed these cars about every couple posts. Otherwise I would have no clue about archer or these two cars... its amazing that a few guys with a passion for racing and pushing nearly stock platforms to the limit could create much of the following these cars have today. Makes you proud to pop open the hood and see the potential (even more so today) that these guys saw 20+ years ago.... could you imagine if dsm link was around with these guys??? Haha, awesome cars!

I am sure they had something more powerful than DSMLINK behind them, these were very savvy bunch of guys anyways.

The rebuild is going great.

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

I am sure they had something more powerful than DSMLINK behind them, these were very savvy bunch of guys anyways.

The rebuild is going great.

Actually they had less.... Just a tuned factory eprom (tuned) from what I understand.

 

[Phil1320]

I'm fairly confident that the tech was pretty scrutinized in a professional racing series. Considering this cars past, I'm sure it met the standards of the day.

Beautiful shot of the car at LRP!

You would certainly think so. Thanks! That shot came as a surprise as friend of a friend shot it and I didn't know til a month or so later. I was psyched.

I'm sure the SCCA wouldn't have let them race for years with their amateur-designed roll cages.

Again, yeah, you wouldn't think so. And, I've heard from several sources that say that the Archers' relationship with the SCCA was controversial. This happens when you dominate and no matter what the sanctioning body does to try to slow you down, you always find a way to keep beating the competition.

For some reason I thought the filler was further back. Makes sense now.


Keep the pics a coming. These have to be the coolest cars in the DSM community right now.

Yes, the fuel cell is basically in the stock location, however it's fed through the top necessitating this design.

Thanks alot! Glad you like this stuff. There is one more out in Wisconsin, the 1993 Championship Winning car, but, I haven't seen him here on the forums in some time. And just an FYI, these are the only three Archer Talons left that appear as they raced back in the day. #34 needed(and is still in progress) a massiver resto on the livery. I'll be posting some shots of that soon.

Loving this thread..more pics please

Great! Soon here...

I'd love more details. As I said I have fwd too and would definitely like to know what the pros did to make this platform handle on the track. Especially in the rear.

Awesome. Will do. I have to pull the rear wheels soon here to replace the rear brakes. I'll snap some close up shots of what's there.

I am sure they had something more powerful than DSMLINK behind them, these were very savvy bunch of guys anyways.

The rebuild is going great.

Thanks! Good to see you back here. Interested in how the Renault is coming along...

They were allowed to run the HKS PFC FCON to adjust for modifiying the MAF and some slight tuning.

For 1990, the cars were still clinging to the "showroom stock" theme. With that, and because there were less powerful normally aspirated cars in the class, very little was allowed for modifications when it came to the engine.

Removal of cat and muffler brought boost to 15. The only other modifications were MAF mods and modification to the STOCK air filter itself. No mods to the aircan itself.

This car could make alot more power than it does with ease.

Actually they had less.... Just a tuned factory eprom (tuned) from what I understand.

This is true. Alot less actually. Both of my cars(stated elsewhere) have non-eprom ECU's. So no chip modifications.

As I did with my AWD car....you can take a stock turbo DSM very far without an eprom ecu and any tuning source. The ECU can adjust for quite a few mods on it's own. I made as much as 266 AWHP with simple bolt ons and boost raised. IMHO, based on my own exeriences, the PFC FCON wasn't really necessary except for maybe helping the car idle with the lower chamber of the MAF removed. But, HKS was a sponsor on this car for 1990, and SCCA approved it's use, so there it is.

 

[arrowhead]

Phil, when I refer to more powerful stuff, I am making reference to the factory in general,,

Since you mentioned the Renault, it is going great, and we have found some things which were probably not 100%.

SCCA officials were having a lot of difficulties in those years, remember that was at the start of electronic controls in general.

 

[Phil1320]

Phil, when I refer to more powerful stuff, I am making reference to the factory in general,,

Since you mentioned the Renault, it is going great, and we have found some things which were probably not 100%.

SCCA officials were having a lot of difficulties in those years, remember that was at the start of electronic controls in general.

I thought you might have been referring to that. Fair enough. Great about the Renault. Would really like to see the car in more detail.

Very true, apparently, they were pulling their hair out trying to set classes as well.

And, relative to the latest discussion: The modified factory air filter-as you can see the paper has been removed as well as the metal end cap. The end cap was replaced with wire mesh, and then they covered the entire thing in foam. Pretty cool stuff. Then we have the MAF with the lower chamber entirely removed. I'll go out on a limb and say that the Archers' basically were first outta the gate with this mod. I'd love to know if it was done on the first year AWD cars that they ran in 1989. The only other possible teams that might have also figured this out in the same time frame(1989) would be the IMSA teams of Paul Rossi with Talons or Dave Wolin Racing's team with Eclipses. They all started racing with DSM's in 1989. I'll work on finding out some of those small details. These are the ones I'm a stickler for.....

 

[pc talon]

Phil,
Great to see the on track pics 25 years later! I don't think that back in 1990 anyone would have imagined these cars surviving, much less still hitting the track.
Awesome work keeping them going.

 

[Phil1320]

Phil,
Great to see the on track pics 25 years later! I don't think that back in 1990 anyone would have imagined these cars surviving, much less still hitting the track.
Awesome work keeping them going.

Thanks Paul!

You're probably right. Several of the cars didn't survive unfortunately. Stories later along down the line on that. I'm still gathering info

I've got a few more pics relative to #32 to post and then I think it's time to get some of the progress photos on #34 up.

 

[arrowhead]

Like i said, these were or are very savvy guys, they did not start their racing with the DSMS, they had a lot of success way before that and brought a lot of experience with them, these were not backyard mechanics or a bunch of guys that just went racing.

They already had the backing of the factory from, Chrysler, Jeep, Renault in their endeavors.

 

[Phil1320]

Like i said, these were or are very savvy guys, they did not start their racing with the DSMS, they had a lot of success way before that and brought a lot of experience with them, these were not backyard mechanics or a bunch of guys that just went racing.

They already had the backing of the factory from, Chrysler, Jeep, Renault in their endeavors.

I know this, but, I'm sure the bulk of the people here aren't aware. I have alot of Archer Racing stuff from before the Eagle's including Renault, Chevy, and Jeep.

And here's a couple more pics relative to #32:

1. The front diff as modified by the Archer Brothers camp

2. The new stoppers - 12.2" rotors with a .980 thickness and the beautiful Wilwood calipers. This alone should make the car much more manageable and essentially much quicker around the course. I never drove with confidence last year in #32. This should remove that feeling and so between the car, and improvements in my driving, it should be a fun year with this car.