Any opinions on the sbr bastard 20g?

[dsmaniac]

If somebody does have this turbo please state whether your running internal or external wastegate. Also if it has the tdo5h or the tdo6h turbine. State your overall liking of this turbo or your overall based opinion about this turbo. Thanks

 

[cecil722]

i was about to run this same thread but you beat me to it. I am also wanting to know.

 

[Jimmy Jr.]

I have it. Both wheels are too large for their respective housings. It's not the worst turbo however it loves to surge. The compressor housing is too damn small for obvious reasons. Cams are a must to benefit from the bastard 20g.

 

[andymoraitis]

Bingo. I called FP about their sleeper and heard the same thing. Due to tightness of the wheel spacing in the housing, compressor surge is a common issue. You're better off with a real 20G.

Hope that helps,

Andy

 

[weaver]

Are there any benifits to using such a small housing?

 

[andymoraitis]

Fast spool, but that's about it. The problem comes about from the wheel having very little room in the housing and therefore being predispoed to surge. The guys at FP only recommended this turbo for a sleeper setup where a TD05 housing was required for class rules, but didn't really recommend it otherwise.

 

[daren_p]

Fast spool, but that's about it. The problem comes about from the wheel having very little room in the housing and therefore being predispoed to surge. The guys at FP only recommended this turbo for a sleeper setup where a TD05 housing was required for class rules, but didn't really recommend it otherwise.

So a smaller comp cover will lead to quicker spool, how exactly does this work? (just talking about comp cover, not turbine housing)

 

[1990greenGSX]

Fast spool, but that's about it. The problem comes about from the wheel having very little room in the housing and therefore being predispoed to surge. The guys at FP only recommended this turbo for a sleeper setup where a TD05 housing was required for class rules, but didn't really recommend it otherwise.

I find this totally hypothetical here. Not everything is what it seems to be. If you havent ran it, Dont post about what you were told. He was asking if you had it. Now, since i have ran this turbo I beg to differ the responses. If its a pump gas car, or not running more than 26 psi. It will not surge at all, let alone due to the comp cover size. I had the TDO6H version on my 1g. Stage 1 SBR longblock, our street FMIC, 1g bov, 650cc inj, 255, an afc, intake and a 3" exhaust. stock intake manifold, stock cams. I made 331 AWHP and ran 11.9@118mph on regular street tires, 20psi and 94 octane. NO SURGE. Car was smooth, responsive, easy bolt on. It was great if you have a 14b or 16g and just want tto upgrade alittle more. A buddy of mine on his 91 FWD same motor, tdo5h version, 650cc injectors, pump and an afc made 325 whp with our race FMIC. once again NO SURGING on 21 psi on 94 octane. Majority of the people looking to run this turbo, may race gas and turn up teh boost on their car 3 times a year. The rest is beating it in the street. You cant go wrong this set up!

You guys are talking about the wheels being too big for both housings?? if you buy a "real 20g" or a bastard, or sleeper, they have the same turbine housing. How is it too small?? The only difference between the two is the comp cover. A tdo5h, under higher boost may surge b/c of how fast it spools, but a tdo6h, doubtful, and i never had it surge one me personally.

Mark ext 12
[email protected]
SBR

 

[andymoraitis]

Don't get crappy with me and tell me to run it before I say anything about it. If you have issues, call the crew at FP and ask them why they wouldn't recommend that particular style of turbo. They clearly said they had surge issues.

While I defer to the fact that you have one, the next time you want to get cute, send me a PM and we'll discuss it. I'm also wholly unimpressed by the fact that the turbo made 330 on pump.

This isn't about bashing YOUR turbo (SBR's) but simply restating what a group of professional turbo manufacturers relayed to me when I expressed interest in it. You also have firsthand experience from a user above who said it surged. I don't think there's anything more definitive than someone asking a question and a tuner wth native experience (Jimmy Jr.) answering it.

In closing, let me add that I have no issue with anyone who disagrees with me as I'm not the consummate pillar of DSM knowledge. I will however have an issue with the manner in which that disagreement is presented.

 

[1990greenGSX]

Don't get crappy with me and tell me to run it before I say anything about it. If you have issues, call the crew at FP and ask them why they wouldn't recommend that particular style of turbo. They clearly said they had surge issues.

While I defer to the fact that you have one, the next time you want to get cute, send me a PM and we'll discuss it. I'm also wholly unimpressed by the fact that the turbo made 330 on pump.

This isn't about bashing YOUR turbo (SBR's) but simply restating what a group of professional turbo manufacturers relayed to me when I expressed interest in it.

I could care less what you are impressed about. I was giving the numbers to be complete in my response to the thread starter which was asking this

"Any opinions on the sbr bastard 20g?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If somebody does have this turbo please state whether your running internal or external wastegate. Also if it has the tdo5h or the tdo6h turbine. State your overall liking of this turbo or your overall based opinion about this turbo. Thanks"

he didnt say.. if anyone knows anything about this, what do you think? It was directled towards people who have the turbo..I have no problem with FP, heck i just talked to Robert the other day on the phone. The sleeper isnt considered a high hp performance turbo. But its a great street car turbo. I have other customers and friends running FPs sleeper with no issue. I wasnt worried about you degrading an SBR turbo. I was looking at it as a universal product (FP, SBR whoever makes it). It was the fact that you are going on hersay from someone else no matter who it is. As a wiseman, I figured you would know better. Text book knowledge and hands on are two different things as I am sure you well know. Believe me, they recommended it , or there wouldnt have been soooo many out there on cars.

oh and by the way, mine was internal, ported, with the 34mm flapper.

Mark
SBR

 

[andymoraitis]

It was the fact that you are going on hersay from someone else no matter who it is. As a wiseman, I figured you would know better.

I'm done arguing here, but you're really not making sense. If I can't trust the opinion of a professional like someone from Forced Performance, then who's opinion can I trust? Also, please don't ever talk to about how I should "know better". You don't know me well enoungh to make that judgement.

Stay well,

Andy

 

[1990greenGSX]

I'm done arguing here, but you're really not making sense. If I can't trust the opinion of a professional like someone from Forced Performance, then who's opinion can I trust? Also, please don't ever talk to about how I should "know better". You don't know me well enoungh to make that judgement.

Stay well,

Andy

There is hardly any bashing going on here. It was simply stating something. Report to the moderators if you want, But i dont feel i have said anything offending. Also, on the trusting some proffessional. If this is true, then why does everyone go to another doctor for another opinion? The first doctor is a professional right? All i am stating is that using them as a reference was textbook knowledge. Same as someone calling and asking me. The point I was making is that the thread starter was looking for hands on expierence. Heck keep the doctor analogy, sometimes you want to hear from a patient that has gone through the same surgery for pointers or advice. Its the same here. I dont feel the thread needs to be locked. It just needs to be kept to people with the hands on experience with a FP sleeper or a SBR bastard 20g and their opinions.

Thanks
Mark
SBR

 

[99gst_racer]

This is a tech forum and this thread is regarding a specific turbocharger.

Let's keep it tech related and leave the BS for PM's.

 

[Ludachris]

You guys need to make your points without taking shots at eachother. The following sentences are almost sure to attract arguments:

"I could care less what you are impressed about."
"the next time you want to get cute, send me a PM and we'll discuss"
"If you havent ran it, Dont post about what you were told"

Though I tend to agree that we should only post about things we have firsthand knowledge of, sometimes it's not bad to forward info given by a reputable turbo manufacturer - in this case, their professional opinion might be relevant. In any case, let's leave out the hostilities and continue with the information, reporting posts that feel don't belong. Debates should not get personal. Let's lead by example please.

 

[Slowboy]

Don't get crappy with me and tell me to run it before I say anything about it. If you have issues, call the crew at FP and ask them why they wouldn't recommend that particular style of turbo. They clearly said they had surge issues.

While I defer to the fact that you have one, the next time you want to get cute, send me a PM and we'll discuss it. I'm also wholly unimpressed by the fact that the turbo made 330 on pump.

This isn't about bashing YOUR turbo (SBR's) but simply restating what a group of professional turbo manufacturers relayed to me when I expressed interest in it. You also have firsthand experience from a user above who said it surged. I don't think there's anything more definitive than someone asking a question and a tuner wth native experience (Jimmy Jr.) answering it.

In closing, let me add that I have no issue with anyone who disagrees with me as I'm not the consummate pillar of DSM knowledge. I will however have an issue with the manner in which that disagreement is presented.

This kind of post bothers me, and you are a good customer of ours? Can't we all get along

Mark did not get "Crappy" with you at all. I read, and re-read his post, and cannot find where you felt the need to cause an issue with Mark. If you disagree, please post the comment from him that you took offense towards.

As well, Mark has worked with SBR for almost 3 1/2 years, and had this turbo on his very own daily driver. I am 100% positive, he is an expert when it comes to DSM's and turbocharging them, just curious why he should call FP when he has first hand experience? I think first hand experience means more than "hearsay".

If anything, Marks post was helpful because he explained his actual set up. This means a lot when you are looking to find the reason why one car would surge, and another would not. Its all in the setup, everyone knows that each one is different.

Not to mention, why would you call Mark out? Saying you are "wholly unimpressed" is much more of an issue than anything he said in his post.

Jimmy should post his mods, and possibly a boost graph for the group to look at. Then, and only then we can draw an accurate conclusion to why his set up surged, and none of the ones we have had on the dyno do. Here is an example of Bastard 20G 6H SBR dyno and boost plots.

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/Bastard%2020g%2015-20-30.JPG

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/Bastard%2020g%20Boost.JPG

Yes, I agree with Jimmy giving his experience and am very glad he mentioned it, what I think he needs to do is give us more explanation of his set up.

Did not mean to add more to the fire, but this bothered me.

MGH

 

[DSM90AWD]

A different angle here, but Mike didn't your EVOIII 16G make 344WHP at a mere 20psi (pump gas levels)? Would you (or Mark) recommend paying $450 (nearly double) more than the EVO16Gs base price to have the non-surging TD06H version of the Bastird 20G w.r.t. performance gain?

I'm not saying this turbo is bad, just that all things considered, this IS a nich turbo (Street Class, Stock Turbo, Stock Appearing) where one wants to "cheat" the rules a bit or want's to remain stealthy for other reasons. That's not to say it doesn't make power or run good times, just that if the above are not limitations to you, other choices (EVO16G, TD05/6 20G, Green) may offer you more performance for the dollar

 

[oldman]

A different angle here, but Mike didn't your EVOIII 16G make 344WHP at a mere 20psi (pump gas levels)? Would you (or Mark) recommend paying $450 (nearly double) more than the EVO16Gs base price to have the non-surging TD06H version of the Bastird 20G w.r.t. performance gain?

I'm not saying this turbo is bad, just that all things considered, this IS a nich turbo (Street Class, Stock Turbo, Stock Appearing) where one wants to "cheat" the rules a bit or want's to remain stealthy for other reasons. That's not to say it doesn't make power or run good times, just that if the above are not limitations to you, other choices (EVO16G, TD05/6 20G, Green) may offer you more performance for the dollar

Agreed, it's just like running GT30 CHRA in tinny little bolt on housings.

 

[Slowboy]

A different angle here, but Mike didn't your EVOIII 16G make 344WHP at a mere 20psi (pump gas levels)? Would you (or Mark) recommend paying $450 (nearly double) more than the EVO16Gs base price to have the non-surging TD06H version of the Bastird 20G w.r.t. performance gain?

I'm not saying this turbo is bad, just that all things considered, this IS a nich turbo (Street Class, Stock Turbo, Stock Appearing) where one wants to "cheat" the rules a bit or want's to remain stealthy for other reasons. That's not to say it doesn't make power or run good times, just that if the above are not limitations to you, other choices (EVO16G, TD05/6 20G, Green) may offer you more performance for the dollar

That 344 WHP on an EVO III 16G at 20 PSI was on a FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR RACE MOTOR.... The 6H bastard 20G made 43 more WHP at the same boost level on that same motor over 150 dyno pulls later.

So, comparing Mark's stock motor rebuild to this is not a very fair comparison.

Now, for someone looking for 300-350 WHP, everyone knows what my favorite turbo is baby.... EVO III 16G all the freaking way.... if you need the badest turbo in sheeps clothing for a stock appearing class the 6H 20G will fit the bill very well.

MGH

 

[oldman]

That is great for a moderator to jump in with nothing relevant to the discussion. Way to show all the newbies the correct way to handle themselves on the forum, my applause to you for helping the thread out.

MGH

If you look at my profile, you would know that I was making fun of myself, a little inside joke between me and John, it was not directed at you. Relax Mike.

 

[Slowboy]

If you look at my profile, you would know that I was making fun of myself, a little inside joke between me and John, it was not directed at you. Relax Mike.

HAHA, I got it. thats why I deleted my message



MGH

 

[DSM90AWD]

That 344 WHP on an EVO III 16G at 20 PSI was on a FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR RACE MOTOR.... The 6H bastard 20G made 43 more WHP at the same boost level on that same motor over 150 dyno pulls later

I thought all your employees ran stg eleventeen engines

 

[1990greenGSX]

I thought all your employees ran stg eleventeen engines

HAHAHA>. only if you guys would buy more so i could afford it with my comission!!

Mark
SBR

 

[JayRolla]

Just throughing some of my .02 on the subject. My friend is running a bastard 20g that my mechanic build for him and he seems to have no problem with compressor surge. Its a very fast spooling hard hitting turbo. But with all this he still wish he went with something else it does not seem to have as much potential as a real 20g and it cost about the same.

Also this is on his multiport fuel injected Conquest TSI with a stand alone fuel system. Forgot to add that. I love the RWD burnouts