AEM AEM EMS start problems

[Vinzleclipse]

Hi all !

I have issues starting my car with a brand new AEM V2 (30-6310).

My car started fine with a stock ECU.

But when I installed my new AEM EMS in the car, it won’t start. I made some research, and after changing the spark ordering wire (4123 to 3214), the car finally hardly started.
It then ran fine, and after a little bit of tuning, it was even possible to do a first shot.

But the day after, when the car was cold, it was impossible to start it.
We tried all day long with my tuner, but nothing happened, except the starter that left us…

The car has MAP and IAT sensors, FIC 850cc, and we selected those specs in the AEM base map.

Could someone please help us ? And tell us why the car hardly started when hot and do not start at all when cold ?

Thank you !

 

[DSMPT]

You have already started the engine. So it probably is a tuning issue. You and your tuner should play more with the start and the idle tab. Or find a tuner who is familiar to the AEMTuner software.
Did you log when it started? Please upload the log file and the cal file by zipping them. I would try to check it.

 

[Vinzleclipse]

You have already started the engine. So it probably is a tuning issue. You and your tuner should play more with the start and the idle tab. Or find a tuner who is familiar to the AEMTuner software.
Did you log when it started? Please upload the log file and the cal file by zipping them. I would try to check it.

Yes we logged when it started.
Tuner called me yesterday, and it seems that there is a tiny spark when the piston is at the bottom in the AEM base map. Here’s a picture of a log with the faulty spark.

Anyway, I’ll ask him to send me the cal file so you can have a look at it.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Vinzleclipse]

You have already started the engine. So it probably is a tuning issue. You and your tuner should play more with the start and the idle tab. Or find a tuner who is familiar to the AEMTuner software.
Did you log when it started? Please upload the log file and the cal file by zipping them. I would try to check it.

Hi ! Here are the Log and Cal files if you can check it… Thank you !

 

[DSMPT]

Hi ! Here are the Log and Cal files if you can check it… Thank you !

I will try to check as much as I can, I am not a pro tuner though.

But the day after, when the car was cold, it was impossible to start it.
We tried all day long with my tuner, but nothing happened, except the starter that left us…

Do you still have the same symptoms?

The car has MAP and IAT sensors, FIC 850cc, and we selected those specs in the AEM base map.

What bar/psi does the MAP sensor have and what brand is the MAP and IAT sensor?

 

[Vinzleclipse]

I will try to check as much as I can, I am not a pro tuner though.

Do you still have the same symptoms?

What bar/psi does the MAP sensor have and what brand is the MAP and IAT sensor?

Yes, always the same symptoms.
It is an Omni Power GM Universal 3 bar, and IAT is from AEM.

 

[Anfurnyy]

I'm not familiar with AEMs but I'd assume you have to verify/sync base ignition timing. Have you done that?

 

[Vinzleclipse]

I'm not familiar with AEMs but I'd assume you have to verify/sync base ignition timing. Have you done that?

Yes base ignition timing seems good

 

[Anfurnyy]

Yes base ignition timing seems good

Not trying to be a rude but "seems" good?

Did you lock timing in the ECU and verify with a timing light that the degree you locked it on in the ECU and the degree the timing light shows when it flashes on the crank match?

Example, you locked timing at 10° in the ECU and the timing light flashes at the 10° mark on the crank pulley?

This is absolutely critical in getting the tune right.

Follow this

AEM-Tuner V2 EMS Ignition Timing SYNC – Brewed Motorsports

Why do you need to Sync your Ignition Timing? Syncing the ignition timing when using and AEM is a key step in the start up process. Using a timing light to chec

www.brewedmotorsports.com

 

[Vinzleclipse]

Not trying to be a rude but "seems" good?

Did you lock timing in the ECU and verify with a timing light that the degree you locked it on in the ECU and the degree the timing light shows when it flashes on the crank match?

Example, you locked timing at 10° in the ECU and the timing light flashes at the 10° mark on the crank pulley?

This is absolutely critical in getting the tune right.

Follow this

AEM-Tuner V2 EMS Ignition Timing SYNC – Brewed Motorsports

Why do you need to Sync your Ignition Timing? Syncing the ignition timing when using and AEM is a key step in the start up process. Using a timing light to chec

www.brewedmotorsports.com

Yes seems because I’m not the tuner, so I’m not the one who change the parameters in the EMS and don’t want say something wrong.

Anyway, YES we used a flashing light to check the ignition timing and it matched.

 

[DSMPT]

I'm not familiar with AEMs but I'd assume you have to verify/sync base ignition timing. Have you done that?

You are correct, very important. But as he said that they have already started and drove the car, so probably not the direct cause of cold no-start issue. As I understood that the car doesn't start only when the engine is cold?

Yes seems because I’m not the tuner, so I’m not the one who change the parameters in the EMS and don’t want say something wrong.

Anyway, YES we used a flashing light to check the ignition timing and it matched.

When did the tuner log this log file? What I see in the log file is something is not right... I mean, looks like your car has electrical issue or maybe the ECU is broken or has a bug with logging. All parameter that are logged are jumping up and down from min to max.
Please ask your tuner to log by using PC log instead of Internal log.

Here is how to,
- Make a new tab or select a tab that you already have, like the Tuning tab.
- Add everything you want to log into the channel window in that tab, like TPS, AFR, Voltage, MAP etc etc.
- Key on position, connect AEMTuner to ECU.
- Make sure all parameters are reacting in AEMTuner, like if you move the throttle, you see TPS parameter also move in AEMTuner.
- And go to "PC logging" at the conner in the bottom right side, and Start PC logging, then Stop and Save.
- Upload that saved PC log file.

Also please ask the tuner if he can see the parameter in channel window "Stat Sync'd" would get ON while cranking. If it doesn't get ON, the car won't start. You would need to re-check all initial setup.

 

[Vinzleclipse]

As I understood that the car doesn't start only when the engine is cold?

Please ask your tuner to log by using PC log instead of Internal log.

Also please ask the tuner if he can see the parameter in channel window "Stat Sync'd" would get ON while cranking. If it doesn't get ON, the car won't start. You would need to re-check all initial setup.

The car hardly started the day we put the EMS on it (mid hot, and it took half an hour). And it didn't want to start the next morning.

Yes, Stat Sync'd turned ON while cranking, and all the parameters are reacting correctly (TPS, AFR, MAP, voltage...).

I'll ask him if he can make a PC log instead of Internal.

In the meantime, is it possible for you to send me a log please ? With your start and idle parameters, and all the sync parameters too. Thank you !

 

[DSMPT]

I'll ask him if he can make a PC log instead of Internal.

Yes.

In the meantime, is it possible for you to send me a log please ? With your start and idle parameters, and all the sync parameters too. Thank you !

I will try to check the pc log file when I receive. Also I will try to look for some cal file that when I had a similar setup and if I find it I will try to copy the parameters into your file and I will send it to you.

 

[Vinzleclipse]

Yes.


I will try to check the pc log file when I receive. Also I will try to look for some cal file that when I had a similar setup and if I find it I will try to copy the parameters into your file and I will send it to you.

After an other day of checking and trying everything, my tuner told me he might have found the problem, but doesn’t know how to resolve it.

When the engine starts, the EMS doesn’t arm the coils properly. And then the engine shuts off immediatly.

Is it a firmware issue ? Or could it be a wrong wiring to the ECU ?

Here is a pic of the log he sent me today.

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[DSMPT]

After an other day of checking and trying everything, my tuner told me he might have found the problem, but doesn’t know how to resolve it.

When the engine starts, the EMS doesn’t arm the coils properly. And then the engine shuts off immediatly.

Is it a firmware issue ? Or could it be a wrong wiring to the ECU ?

Here is a pic of the log he sent me today.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

In the cal file that you sent me, I found that the fuel pump/radiator fan/AC fan are not assigned.
I fixed it in your cal file. I upload it here, please try the file.
If it was the issue, probably you would start to hear the fuel pump priming (running) for 2 sec when you turn the key on (Not cranking, just on position). But I am not 100% sure if Euro 2G has the same pinout as the US 2G. In case if there is difference on the pinout, you would have to change it by yourself by going to "Tools" -> "Configure Outputs".

 

[Vinzleclipse]

In the cal file that you sent me, I found that the fuel pump/radiator fan/AC fan are not assigned.
I fixed it in your cal file. I upload it here, please try the file.
If it was the issue, probably you would start to hear the fuel pump priming (running) for 2 sec when you turn the key on (Not cranking, just on position). But I am not 100% sure if Euro 2G has the same pinout as the US 2G. In case if there is difference on the pinout, you would have to change it by yourself by going to "Tools" -> "Configure Outputs".

Yes that’s normal, my fuel pump and fans are not managed by the ECU anymore.

 

[mikellinos]

In the wizard tab i dont see that you have matched the below:
Ignition: coil dwell
Sensor: Cam/crank position

 

[DSMPT]

Yes that’s normal, my fuel pump and fans are not managed by the ECU anymore.

I am confused, because I thought your car just has some bolt-ons and besides that, everything else is stock. I think you are missing some things to provide us. You have the fuel pump and fans control independently not via ECU, which means you at least have some circuits/wirings customized, since you said the engine runs good with the stock ECU.
Your profile is not complete. Please specifically show us what you have and what you have done. Like what sensors you have, how you wired the pump and fans to the stock harness, etc etc.

 

[Vinzleclipse]

I am confused, because I thought your car just has some bolt-ons and besides that, everything else is stock. I think you are missing some things to provide us. You have the fuel pump and fans control independently not via ECU, which means you at least have some circuits/wirings customized, since you said the engine runs good with the stock ECU.
Your profile is not complete. Please specifically show us what you have and what you have done. Like what sensors you have, how you wired the pump and fans to the stock harness, etc etc.

Yes I forgot about that, the turbo ECU couldn’t manage fans and pump from euro version.
So these are two independant harnesses, not wired to the stock harness.

Sensors are all stock, and because of euro version I have the cam sensor behind the pulley like the ‘95 version.

In the wizard tab i dont see that you have matched the below:
Ignition: coil dwell
Sensor: Cam/crank position

They were matched, but when the tuner changes thoses paremeters it unchecked it.

 

[mikellinos]

They were matched, but when the tuner changes thoses paremeters it unchecked it.

If you have stock sensors and coils and you match them then they dont need any further changes those parameters. Considering the engine started when was hot and was working ok i dont think there is any problem with the ignition.
Something else i noticed is the Crank injector time, i have ID1000 and i have it at 2477ms, yours is 1003ms and going downwards as the tps opens, i think is too low and probably the engine starving from fuel, try to raise it and keep it flat all the way until 80% tps and zero it out at full throttle.

 

[DSMPT]

Yes I forgot about that, the turbo ECU couldn’t manage fans and pump from euro version.
So these are two independant harnesses, not wired to the stock harness.

Just in case, please provide how the wiring goes, and the pinout differences between the US and Euro ECU if you know.

They were matched, but when the tuner changes thoses paremeters it unchecked it.

Usually no need to change any parameters. Just go back as stock. As you said in the original post that you already started the engine once, so I guess it's most likely the cranking tuning. I would try to play with it first.
I changed some parameters for cranking in your cal file, please try it and see if it would make any change.

 

[Vinzleclipse]

If you have stock sensors and coils and you match them then they dont need any further changes those parameters. Considering the engine started when was hot and was working ok i dont think there is any problem with the ignition.
Something else i noticed is the Crank injector time, i have ID1000 and i have it at 2477ms, yours is 1003ms and going downwards as the tps opens, i think is too low and probably the engine starving from fuel, try to raise it and keep it flat all the way until 80% tps and zero it out at full throttle.

Tuners says this was parameters to not flood the engine. But there is still fuel coming.
He tried with your parameters anyway, but no change.

Just in case, please provide how the wiring goes, and the pinout differences between the US and Euro.ECU if you know.


Usually no need to change any parameters. Just go back as stock. As you said in the original post that you already started the engine once, so I guess it's most likely the cranking tuning. I would try to play with it first.
I changed some parameters for cranking in your cal file, please try it and see if it would make any change.

My tuner tried your map, but unfortunately no changes…
He is now a 100% sure that the problem is injectors or coils that are not drived as they should by the EMS. It says « Sync’d On », but when looking at the tops, it looks like s***.

Is there any way to fix that, or te reset the firmware ? (02v02)

For the wiring diagrams, I had them and will try to provide it.

For the harness, the car is at the tuner’s shop (250 miles from home), but I will provide it too.
I had new fuses for both pump and fans. Pump is manually activated, and fans start working automatically when car is hot.

 

[DSMPT]

Hard to tell with this very limited info. Please ask the tuner to send at least some video, pics, or log etc.
Does you tuner have the manuals for AEMTuner software?

What I can say for now is I use those cranking parameters I sent you for low-z FIC 1050cc and 1800cc injectors. I have no issue to fire up the engine.
02v02 is the latest firmware. I am not sure if resetting would make it better. I have been using the AEM EMS series 2 since the day one, and I have never needed to reset it. With 02v02, most of bugs are gone, as much as I know the only bug is with the internal logging. That's why I asked you to do the PC log instead of the internal log.

I had new fuses for both pump and fans. Pump is manually activated, and fans start working automatically when car is hot.

I imagine that you simply separated the fuel pump and fans from ECU by using relays. Are those the only things you modified wirings?

 

[Vinzleclipse]

Hard to tell with this very limited info. Please ask the tuner to send at least some video, pics, or log etc.
Does you tuner have the manuals for AEMTuner software?

What I can say for now is I use those cranking parameters I sent you for low-z FIC 1050cc and 1800cc injectors. I have no issue to fire up the engine.
02v02 is the latest firmware. I am not sure if resetting would make it better. I have been using the AEM EMS series 2 since the day one, and I have never needed to reset it. With 02v02, most of bugs are gone, as much as I know the only bug is with the internal logging. That's why I asked you to do the PC log instead of the internal log.

I imagine that you simply separated the fuel pump and fans from ECU by using relays. Are those the only things you modified wirings?

Fuel pump and fans are indeed separated from the original harness using relays.
We deleted the resistor pack and the EGR, rewired correctly all the wires to the ECU pins and that’s all I can say about electricals that have been modified.

Yes the tuner has all the manuals for the AEMtuner, and he even is in touch with the guys from AEM. But all the Maps they are sending him are worst than his…

Here are two logs he just provided me :
- the first one is not modified, with all the parameters of my car matched ;
- the second is the one he modified the most recently.

 

[DSMPT]

Fuel pump and fans are indeed separated from the original harness using relays.
We deleted the resistor pack and the EGR, rewired correctly all the wires to the ECU pins and that’s all I can say about electricals that have been modified.

Yes the tuner has all the manuals for the AEMtuner, and he even is in touch with the guys from AEM. But all the Maps they are sending him are worst than his…

Here are two logs he just provided me :
- the first one is not modified, with all the parameters of my car matched ;
- the second is the one he modified the most recently.

Can you try this cal file to see if it would make any difference. I changed the injector setup. Your injectors are low-z FIC 850cc correct?

Please ask your tuner to add at least the wideband, IAT, MAP, coolant temp and TPS sensors into log.
And let us know to what pin you connected the wideband, IAT and MAP sensors and how you deleted the resistor pack.
Are you 100% sure that your car doesn't have any issues while you were running with the stock ECU?