Advice on Auto-x

[99BoostedRS]

Ok so as the title says i need advice on auto-x.

I wanna use the car i currently have, my 99 GS

I know exactly what i wanna do for suspension and brakes.

But my question is, how much hp would i need?

Please don't tell me to sell my GS and buy a GS-T or GSX
I've tried selling my car before but i just couldn't come to it, i love my car

Now I know I'm going to have to most likely go turbo and if i do it's deff not going to be on a stock engine. I've seen how people drive their car's on tracks (Keep the rpm's up and such) and i highly doubt the 420a will be able to handle that for a good while.

Thanks for any input.

 

[jtmcinder]

How many events have you already done? If the answer is less than five, then don't do anything to the car; don't even think about the car, just drive. In contrast, if you have some experience, then you need to decide on a class. Then we can help.

While I won't tell you to get a GSX, I will suggest that you start adopting the attitude of "I'm here to have fun, not win"; your car will never be competitive above the local level, no matter what you do to it. But any car can be fun to drive.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

If your only question is "how much HP do I need?" I'm pretty sure more is better. But like ^^ he said, You aren't going to go right out there and win every event, so realistically you don't need any more HP than you already have. It should be fun either way.

 

[snowborder714]

If your only question is "how much HP do I need?" I'm pretty sure more is better.

Incorrect. Less is actually better until you really know how your car drives and you learn how to control it. I usually turn the boost down a bit on my car for autox events because of not having enough seat time yet and having my setup changing more often than I race.

Follow what jtoby says. Learn to drive, get seat time, figure out if you care about classes, and plan your mods by the rule book.


What are your plans for suspension and brakes?

 

[99BoostedRS]

Sorry for being vague, I have little to no auto-x experience.

The closest thing to auto-xing i have done is go-karts in europe (these things were fast and i spun out a couple times taking turns too fast )

I obviously know that go-karting can't really be compared all that much to full size cars.

And yes auto-x for me would be for fun. I'm not gonna be joining events to be trying to get 1st place for a while.

My suspension goals right now are:

Tein basic coilovers

Sway bars (Don't know what thickness, This will probably come after i get alot of seat time.)

Possibly strut bars but again it will probably happen after seat time.

Deff want to get prothane bushing's all around.

Adjustable camber ball joints for the front.

Adjustable camber "bolt kit" or whatever you wanna call it for the back.

I was also thinking about underbrace bars for the front and back but i still wanna do some research on that.

Brakes:

Gsx conversion in the front w/ Slotted and drilled rotors.

Slotted and drilled rotors in the rear.

Hawk pads all around.

Stainless steel lines

 

[Tyeler18]

As stated you're car is only as fast as YOU can make it. I've personally watched a guy in an automatic, 2.4, 3g spyder out lap a gtr and well built supra over the entire course of our local autox. Why? Because he's a great, smooth (keyword) driver. Even some of our local hondas are competitvely racing in the top 10 in our nx-b class, however they're very well modded with lots of seat time.

Start out with the car how it is, then progressively go bigger. Get the officials or faster guys to ride with you and give tips, then ride with them and see how they do. Slow in = faster out, smooth shifts and handling > raw wot power. I'll tell you now though, after riding in the faster guys cars those tien basics will seem severely lacking. They're a great, cheap, entry level coilover for the average road course guy, but when you want to go faster they won't cut it.

 

[snowborder714]

My suspension goals right now are:

Tein basic coilovers Look at these - Autocross.dsm.org - Build Your Own Konis

Sway bars (Don't know what thickness, This will probably come after i get alot of seat time.) RM DSM are the biggest ones you can buy

Possibly strut bars but again it will probably happen after seat time. Won't really do much for handling

Deff want to get prothane bushing's all around.

Adjustable camber ball joints for the front.

Adjustable camber "bolt kit" or whatever you wanna call it for the back.

I was also thinking about underbrace bars for the front and back but i still wanna do some research on that. Again, won't really do much

Brakes:

Gsx conversion in the front w/ Slotted <s>and drilled</s> rotors. Or just get blanks for cheaper

Slotted <s>and drilled</s> rotors in the rear. Again, or just blanks

Hawk pads all around. I'd go better than Hawk potentially

Stainless steel lines

Yup, go karts can only be mildly be compared to a real car. The handling of your pig will be completely different from the tight, snapping go kart.

Decent plans, but I've noted some changes I would make.

One thing you haven't considered is wider/stickier tires. But again, all of this shouldn't be thought about until after you get some seat time. This way you can see how the car handles as is, then once you put on a mod, take it out and see how it affects driving/handling.

 

[99BoostedRS]

One thing you haven't considered is wider/stickier tires. But again, all of this shouldn't be thought about until after you get some seat time. This way you can see how the car handles as is, then once you put on a mod, take it out and see how it affects driving/handling.

I currently have 18" Motegi ff7's on the car wrapped in all season sumitomo tires.

The only problem i have with the rims is that they are REALLY heavy.

So i was thinking about getting another set of rims (later on) and wrapping them with a nice sticky tire and use the ones on the car now when i drive it on the street.

Can you guys recommend a wheel size?

The tires i have now (225 width) make it seem as if i go any wider I'd have alot rubbing issues.

 

[jtmcinder]

First, forget Teins. They're terrible. The first suspension mod for a 2G is Koni Sports.

Second, forget the adjustable upper front ball-joints; either get eccentrics for the upper inboard mounts or shorten the upper arms (or both). Those ball-joints cost you waaaay to much bump travel. On a properly-sprung 2G, the travel limit is set my the outer end of the upper arm hitting the fender; don't do anything to reduce the available travel.

Third, resist the temptation to do cheap and easy mods, as they are often worthless. Strut-tower braces on an otherwise stock-suspension car is at the top of the "cheap, easy, but useless" list.

Finally, I again suggest that you stop thinking about the car. Just drive. For one thing, you might becomes completely hooked and decide that you will want to be competitive, in which case you'll be looking for a new car and you never, ever get your money back for mods when you sell a car.

 

[99BoostedRS]

So would you guys think it's better off to just try out auto-x so i can get the feel for it and if i would want to get serious buy another car?

Because that is starting to seem like the better option.

 

[Dhan]

So would you guys think it's better off to just try out auto-x so i can get the feel for it and if i would want to get serious buy another car?

Because that is starting to seem like the better option.

I'm not really into autox anymore (too many pompous attitudes in my region), but I'm heavily into SCCA rallyx, which is similar. Except the track is dirt w/cones.

I would definitely recommend just going to an event with the car as-is and plan on feeling everything out. Get familiar with the rules, how cars make their runs, course work, and a basic idea of how the event takes place.
You aren't going to place on your first day (if you do, get a shirt that says PRODIGY) so don't worry about speed. Focus on control and getting in tune with how the car handles and reacts to your inputs when driving on a closed course.

And I'm not sure why you wouldn't be competitive given some time, experience, and some upgrades. Cars are broken down into one of many different classes (stock fwd, prepared rwd, ladies stock, etc. ) that helps to level the playing field and allows any car to be competitive [in its class].

Organized racing is a lot of fun, pretty cheap, and a great way to meet like minded ppl. Hope you have fun. GL

 

[snowborder714]

Yes, go try out a season or so of autox and see how you do, what you learn, and talk to people about the car they run. If you get to 4-6 races in a season, that'd be a good bit of seat time to say that you've tried it and are starting to see how the car is working. Then if you're really convinced that you want to keep the current car, you'll have to start planning mods.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I can second what everyone is saying about just getting practice. 2011 was my first season of autox. My first event I was like 12 seconds behind my buddy. After 5 events I was only 1 second behind him. Seat time will make you faster then any performance parts (except in my case a set of matching tires) in the beginning. Even now my car is still faster then I am and I still have a lot to learn. Also with autox it's not about how much power your car makes, its about how it handles and how you drive it.

 

[jtmcinder]

And I'm not sure why you wouldn't be competitive given some time, experience, and some upgrades. Cars are broken down into one of many different classes (stock fwd, prepared rwd, ladies stock, etc. ) that helps to level the playing field and allows any car to be competitive [in its class].

First, those classes that you're referring to are for rallycross, not autocross. Autocross has a lot more classes. And, yet, because autocross is slightly more dependent on car than rallycross (which is, like, 90% driver, instead of 75% driver * ), not all cars can be competitive at the higher levels, where everyone knows the basic of driving. A N/T 2G is a good example of a car that isn't competitive in any class. It's sad, but true.

But you can learn to drive in any car. In fact, due to the inherent competitiveness of humans in general and human males in particular, you could easily argue that you will learn fastest by being in a non-competitive car. In my case, when there's nobody close to me in time in the morning, I don't seem to get much faster from run to run. But when I'm 2 seconds back after the first set of runs, I somehow find those 2 seconds in the afternoon. Well, maybe not always the whole 2 seconds, but I definitely gain more when I'm being pushed.

- - -

* footnote: the numbers "90%" and "75%" were pulled from a certain place in my body and should be thoroughly rinsed before used

 

[Dhan]

First, those classes that you're referring to are for rallycross, not autocross.

That's why I wrote "etc". I wasn't about to write every single class.

My point was to encourage someone to try out racing, not write out a definitive list of autox classes

 

[jtmcinder]

Looks like bad attitudes aren't limited to the autocrossers in your area, but I digress....

 

[99BoostedRS]

Thanks alot for the advice and info guys.

I'm gonna sign up for some auto-x asap and get some seat time.

But 1 thing I really want to do is upgrade my front brakes to GSX brakes with atleast stock rotors.

The brakes on my GS (and every other n/t) are horrible and I wouldn't feel that safe with brakes that can barely stop my car on a track.

 

[jtmcinder]

Definitely have good brakes. Besides safety, here's another reason: learn to left-foot brake. Even without a turbo, it's a good habit and it takes a bunch of practice. But you must trust that you'll still have brakes even after they heat up a bit.

(Why would someone in a FWD non-turbo want to LFB? Let me answer with another question: if you are on the gas and brakes at the same time (in a FWD), what is the net effect? Answer: you are braking with only the rears. This can be very useful.)

 

[95twinturboawd]

So would you guys think it's better off to just try out auto-x so i can get the feel for it and if i would want to get serious buy another car?

Because that is starting to seem like the better option.

yes my frist autoX was a big wake up for my i had a 500hp 3k vr4, i was all over the place, but buy the end of the day i was over 15sec faster. my friends 1988 SUNBIRD auto (95hp)with no power adders bet me that day. so like every one else just drive the car and have fun

 

[everbruin]

I agree but chose to replace my eccentrics w/ Ingalls 35750 sliding ones

Second, forget the adjustable upper front ball-joints; either get eccentrics for the upper inboard mounts or shorten the upper arms (or both). Those ball-joints cost you waaaay to much bump travel. On a properly-sprung 2G, the travel limit is set by the outer end of the upper arm hitting the fender; don't do anything to reduce the available travel.

 

[jtmcinder]

Yeah, SPC sliders, installed backwards, with the upper arm cleaned up a little so it will still rotate without hitting, will get you most camber with minimal work. But to those who put a lot of force through the upper arms (as in: autocrossers with grip), you need to check them often, as they can slip.

In any event, good catch. That's a good third option and anything is better than adjustable ball-joints.

 

[everbruin]

sorry I mistakenly said spc; I revised above to Ingalls 35750

 

[Chill Kill Kult]

Sometimes It's more fun to drive a slow car fast, rather than driving a fast car slow. FWD is way easier to correct if you make a mistake, some say that even RWD is easier to correct than an AWD machine. My racing experience is very limited but I have been turning wrenches for about 8 years since I graduated tech school and have seen it happen so many times... don't turn your car into a money pit. Mods should never be without purpose. If in some time you have a lot of cash burning a hole in your pocket (say 30K) and want to take racing more seriously, this usually means time trials - you will want a more capable vehicle.

For Auto X your talking brake pads, tires, maybe a few suspension/alignment pieces, making sure your cooling system is in good condition and maybe adding an oil cooler.

 

[wanksta]

I agree, seat time is key. Take the car as-is. I personally would put the money you wanna spend on brakes towards light wheels and better tires, Ive never seen an auto-x layout that could overwhelm your brakes. If they wont lock up at auto-x speed, theres something mechanically wrong with them. If they do lock up, you need tires, not brakes. Road course is a different matter, but get some auto-x experience. Meet some cool people. And have some fun in your car! You just may be the fastest novice there that day, and thats winning.

 

[jtmcinder]

Ive never seen an auto-x layout that could overwhelm your brakes

Learn to left-foot brake and get back to us, OK?