Acceptable HLA and rocker wear?

[Blinkyblinx9]

I'm posting this because I don't think there has been a clear cut explanation as to what is and is not an acceptable wear pattern for lash adjusters and rocker arms. At least I haven't been able to find one on here over the past few days. The search function is either not the greatest or I don't know how to use it effectively. I probably just suck at using it . I have included a few pictures of what came out of my head after a recent incident.

To start, I think personally that these are all bad so please correct me if I'm wrong. The lash adjusters are clearly bad as the darker spots on the tip are a steep step down from the polished area that is pretty uniform in depth all the way around. The step is very abrupt as if the very top layer cracked and broke off revealing a rough machined surface underneath. This makes me wonder how exactly are these contact surfaces constructed. Are the important parts case hardened then polished or is any given area just as hard as the rest of it? Not a relevant question, I'm just curious.

As for the rockers I'm actually a bit confused over these. The ones that got chipped and cracked got tossed but the rest I am unsure of. The side that contacts the lash adjusters is iffy to me as they are rough around the inside just before the bore that leads to the oiling hole. Can/should they be cleaned up and does that part even contact the adjuster? The image with the ring around the contact surface on the other hand, I have no idea what that's about but it looks bad. On the other side the "wear" mark looks like the material above and below the polished area. Is it just where the back of the valve stem didn't make contact due to slight differences between the parts or is that worn through the polished surface? Can I clean this up and put it back in or does it not matter? I only ask because 130 shipped for a set of lifters is one thing but rockers are too damn expensive for even half a set. I mean I will do what I must but I would rather avoid that expense if I can. This is already a $1600 project and I cant bite off too much more but time is free.

Note the rockers are factory but lifters have maybe 15-20k miles on them and I have already ordered a new set. Oil was changed every 3-5k but always came out as black as can be. The rest of my rockers that I have deemed even remotely acceptable have much less wear but a similar looking pattern. Any advice would be much appreciated.

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[chrysler kid]

To be specifically inspecific

The areas where there is metal to metal contact will be smooth when properly oiled and free from contamination. The smooth chrome finish indicates proper wear and function. Pitting in the chrome surfaces would indicate a problem that could lead to more scarring and metal being removed

The first lifter has seen some irregular wear, any grooving in the chrome surfaces indicate improper wear. I would atleast replace that one

To get specific. None of them look overly concearning. If this is a stock rebuild on a high mileage car I would just properly prebleed them by compressing the lifters in clean oil several times to pump out any old oil

If this is a high horsepower rebuild or built motor i would just replace the set of lifters since they can be noisy if they are the originals. If you are running higher strength valve springs in would replace the rockers as well

But if its a high mileage motor you are putting a new head on, I dont see anything concearning except the irregular pitting on the first lifter

 

[Dericsh]

As far as searching goes, I usually go to google and search for “dsmtuners insert problem here”. Google usually yields the results I need if they are here.

 

[Blinkyblinx9]

To be specifically inspecific

The areas where there is metal to metal contact will be smooth when properly oiled and free from contamination. The smooth chrome finish indicates proper wear and function. Pitting in the chrome surfaces would indicate a problem that could lead to more scarring and metal being removed

The first lifter has seen some irregular wear, any grooving in the chrome surfaces indicate improper wear. I would atleast replace that one

To get specific. None of them look overly concearning. If this is a stock rebuild on a high mileage car I would just properly prebleed them by compressing the lifters in clean oil several times to pump out any old oil

If this is a high horsepower rebuild or built motor i would just replace the set of lifters since they can be noisy if they are the originals. If you are running higher strength valve springs in would replace the rockers as well

But if its a high mileage motor you are putting a new head on, I dont see anything concearning except the irregular pitting on the first lifter

Unfortunately most of the lifters are exactly like that one to some extent so I ordered a new set and am tossing all but the ones that are almost perfect. The small wear on the rockers doesn't seem concerning at all? I might go with slightly tighter springs but the head won't see any higher than stock rpma as it's eventually going on a 64 block.

 

[chrysler kid]

Unfortunately most of the lifters are exactly like that one to some extent so I ordered a new set and am tossing all but the ones that are almost perfect. The small wear on the rockers doesn't seem concerning at all? I might go with slightly tighter springs but the head won't see any higher than stock rpma as it's eventually going on a 64 block.

Visually I can not see any defect in the rockers, again im primarily looking for pitting in metal to metal contact areas.

To be exact you can get a caliper gauge to measure the height of the surface that contacts the valve and see if all of the rocker arms are nearly identical in their height measurements. Having no grooves in them though indicates to me they have similar and minor wear

For perspective, my 98 camaro had a loose rocker arm and had pitting in the contact surface where the valve touched the spring. There were several scratches where the rocker arm would contact the valve harshly because the arm would extend a gap before contacting the valve.

Because the rocker arm should always contact the valve, and have tension on the valve (and in the 4g63 on the lifters as well), there should be no signs of scratching or marring.

So to better explain, if your camshafts show no irregular wear in their contact surface area which ride on the rocker arm, there should be no damage to the rocker arm

Could you say they are brand new, no, but they are well within the realms of saying there is no reason to replace them unless you see signs of scars or pitting in the contact surfaces

 

[Blinkyblinx9]

Okay, so after a few hours of cleaning one of these up I have learned... Almost nothing. It just looks like part of it wasn't making contace with the back of the valve stem. The area in question in the image is the portion of textured metal which seems to protrude into the polished area. Now, I tried to buff the heck out of this thing and got nowhere which leads me to believe that it's all pretty hard stuff. Prior to cleaning, the entire rocker was stained similar to the inside of the head except for the shiny portions which includes the aforementioned area. It too was discolored which is another reason I believe the back of the stem doesn't necessarily touch the entire adjacent surface on the rocker. Am I right in this assumption because if so this seems to be all perfectly normal wear.

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[danl]

I'd be perfectly happy with the pad wear on those rockers. I understand your concern but I don't think it is a huge deal. What kind of oil are you using? You might want something with more zinc or molybdenum in it to help combat metal to metal wear. Also higher viscosity will help. What do the tips of the valves look like?

 

[chrysler kid]

Here you go. Yours look fine to me.

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[Blinkyblinx9]

Here you go. Yours look fine to me.

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Thank you. I have watched his cylinder head videos which is actually what prompted this because that is the only decent bit of info I could find on the topic yet it doesn't really go into what it should and shouldn't look like aside from scoring. It actually occurred to me that I had no idea what a new part was supposed to look like so I had nothing to compare it to. Apparently that pad has texture from the factory? So it gradually wearing over time is actually why its smooth and polished looking. Basically anything deviating from that gradual wear/shining is what you don't want? This would also mean that these pads aren't a evenly machined surface because that wear clearly shows high and low spots. Typically texture in the middle of a smooth shiny surface is a bad thing so I have approached this with that mind set and if this is how it is than it has totally made this more difficult than it should have been.

 

[chrysler kid]

Yours are fine. His old ones had been chewing the trash oh his oiling system from him blowing a motor. His old ones had pitting and uneven surface wear. Yours all seem pretty consistent of a good motor

Yes the new ones appear to have the same texture as the sides of the rocker arm. Your old ones all look very acceptable to me