95 GST wont start?

[jrpmp69]

I have a 95 Eclipse GST and im having trouble figuring out why it wont start, this is what i have done to try to troubleshoot it so far:

1. I changed the coolant temp sensor cause the scanner said it was bad and the CEL turned off but still didnt start.

2. Changed the MAF cause the one that was on there had no honey combs, no luck.

3. I changed the fuel pump and it still didnt start.

4. Changed the power transistor and coil pack and checked for spark and it still didnt start.

6. I sprayed starting fluid into the motor and it started up but turned off when i stopped spraying, so i figured its not getting fuel so I changed the injectors and still no luck.

I cant seem to figure out what is wrong with it, there is no more CEL and when it does come on it says knock sensor malfunction cause the plug seems to disconnect itself sometimes. The only thing i have not changed is the injector resistor.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[AWD_FIEND]

Just ruling out the obvious, is there gas in it? I'm surprised it ran on starting fluid alone although you didnt elaborate on what "running" means. Instead of just replacing random parts pull up the factory manual in the FAQ and start testing methodically until your problem reveals itself through process of elimination. Most of the sensors even when failed wont keep the the car from starting, the ECU simply ignores them and reverts to limp mode. So get the car running before you keep replacing sensors. If you suspect fuel is the culprit disconnect/loosen the fuel line at each subsequent junction from the fuel pump to the return line (have a rag handy and try not to make a mess) while trying to start the car. If you get fuel after the pump and before the hardline then move on to before the filter, then after the filter, then after the rail/regulator. If you are getting fuel the whole way then its your injector signal which could be the ECU, CAS, resistors, or damaged wires. Check each item as the manual describes, and let us know the results.

 

[JFZERO ECLIPSE]

2g's are a tad different than 1g's...

First off I'm sure your getting air...Next what about fuel? what I do is pop the fuel rail off the head and stick 4 little like 12 oz. pepsi bottles at the end of each injector...have a 2nd person crank the car...you getting fuel??? If not work your way backwards in the system...Take off end of fuel rail toward pass side of car...Fuel yet? Maybe clogged filter?? Last but not least Fuel pump...I have a gauge on the end of my fuel filter that lets me know if I'm getting pressure or not...

Next spark....Coil pack and transistor pack are the easiest to check...Borrow a buddies off their dsm hook it up...Any spark yet??? If not the next easiest thing is to check the cam angle sensor...

(This is from luv2ralley like to give credit where credit is due...)

"Here's the factory test proceedure for the 99 that should also work for you. Note all voltage measurements are to ground.
- Disconnect CAS connector.
- Measure the voltage on harness side CAS pin 3 (red wire) with key on - should be +12V.
- Then make sure you have continuity (0 ohms) on harness side CAS pin 1 (black) to ground.
- Then measure the voltage on harness side CAS pin 2 (blue/red) with key on - should be 4.8-5.2V.
- Reconnect CAS connector.
- Measure voltage on CAS pin 2 (blue/red) while cranking engine - should be 0.4-3.0V [engine idling should be 0.5-2.0]. If you have 0V your CAS is dead since you should read something (even though they are pulses the voltmeter will read the average which will be more than 0). Note: To get at the wire inside you can stick a safety pin through the insulation and connect voltmeter lead to it."

Then next thing it check is the Crank position sensor...again from luv2ralley
"Crank position sensor test: same as cam angle sensor except pin 2 is blue/white and it's crank voltage is 0.4-4.0V while idling is 1.5-2.5V"

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I'll also elaborate:

You say you replaced the fuel pump, are you sure you are getting fuel? JFZERO has a great method or I just take out the spark plugs and you can plainly see and smell fuel when the car is cranked.

If the injector resistor is bad, that will most definitely cause the injectors to not fire.

Have you checked for COMPRESSION (not air)?

Do you have spark? i.e., pull the spark plug out and attach it to the corresponding wire and put the electrode near metal to see if there is an arch (or touch it ).

One of these are missing.

 

[Sam@RRE]

take off the fuel return line off the FPR, put your eyes near the outlet. Have a friend crank it over. If you feel a nice stinging sensation, you are getting fuel. If you dont, You have a fuel pump problem. Could be main relay, could be wire fell out of the connector in the housing. Take a test light and poke around. Dead CAS will make the Injectors not fire. Its uncommon for injectors to fail, especially all 4 at the same time, so you wasted your time and money replacing the injectors. Take a test light and poke at the connectors for each injector, with the key on, they should all have 12V constant. The other connector gets grounded by the ecu.

 

[AWD_FIEND]

Admittedly I have less experience with 2Gs, but the concept still stands. I wouldnt bother removing the injectors from the manifold because if you pull a spark plug and turn the motor over you'll know if the cylinder is getting fuel. But if the cylinder isnt getting fuel it wont tell you whether its the injectors or some other issue in the fuel system. When opening the fuel system it doesnt matter whether you start at the return or the supply, working your way forward or backward produces the same results. It might be less work starting at the return line and ending at the pump, unless your problem is the pump or filter then you did twice the work. Your description started with a fuel pump issue so I think thats the best place to start. Let us know what you find.

 

[jrpmp69]

I tried removing the fuel filter to see if it was clogged but i couldn't get the line at the bottom off for anything to test it so I took the top fuel line off, primed it and there was a lot of fuel coming out, i changed the injector resistor and it still didnt start. All the parts that i have changed I had laying around so I didnt spend any money besides on the coolant temp sensor. Im really starting to think that there is a bad injector or a problem in the harness, a little more troubleshooting and I will find out. For those of you who didnt understand, I took the MAP sensor off and sprayed starting fluid into the intake manifold and the car started right up and stayed on as long as i kept spraying the starting fluid into it, so yes that tells me that there is a fuel issue.

 

[Sam@RRE]

Did you do what I asked? My method takes 5 minutes, you don't have to take off the fuel filter.

 

[chadnum1]

WHen you installed the fuel pump did you make sure to put on the spacer, o ring and cap so it will build pressure in the lines instead of pumping back into the tank?

 

[AWD_FIEND]

So there's plenty of fuel on the outlet side of the filter which tells you the pump and filter as well as the electrical system responsible for those components is functioning properly. Knowing that is a big help. There's no way the car fired right up and ran fine on the starting fluid alone so that tells me you're getting some fuel, just not enough, or the right proportion at the right moment. Sam is right at this point you should back probe the injectors to make sure you are getting voltage there, which I suspect your are, but its good to know none the less. There could be a short in the wiring south of the injector and that would show up at the plug. Test that next. Then pull a spark plug and test for spark. While you have the cylinder open turn the engine over and make sure you smell fuel from the spark plug hole. Your injectors may be getting proper voltage but could be severly clogged. Of course in that case usually the engine runs, just very poorly. I'm suspecting the CAS or ECU at this point.

 

[motomattxxx]

Swap in a good ecu that you borrow from a buddy.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Did you do what I asked? My method takes 5 minutes, you don't have to take off the fuel filter.

methinks not

 

[Sam@RRE]

I just love how everyone doesn't listen. Seriously I do this for a living. Like the other guy with the no-start. Everyone pointed to every possible problem and I called ignition switch, low and behold it was. Im just going off the facts you tell me, injector clogging doesn't just happen in 1 minute. Things that happen out of nowhere is usually electrical related. Now take off the return line, have a friend crank the car and see if fuel squirts out of the regulator. It will tell you the fuel pump, main relay, filter is working and you have fuel pressure behind the injectors. Injectors wont work without pressure behind them. Since it started and ran (sorta) on starting fluid, we know the ECU is working, coil is working, wires are working, plugs are working. We have denoted it all down to fuel. It crank, It sparks, there isnt a hole in the block so its got compression, and it starts with starting fluid, so you have a fuel problem. My instructions will test the pump/fuel feel and return system. If it works then its down to the injection system. Which consist of testing for power at the injectors. If it does get it, then its Cam angle sensor, because that is what the ECU uses to know when to trigger the injectors. Its like a Race Car at the light, its running, ready to go, just waiting for the green light. If the announcer or green light person is taking a dump, race is not going to happen. The race car works, the road is there, people are drunk and cheering, no green light, no go.

So listen to the guy who does this for a living, not like I'm going to charge you if I end up helping you here, its free advice. Not like I don't drive one of these things on a daily basis, race it, break it, fix it till my girlfriend wants to dump me over it and thinks I love it more than her (which I do). I don't even know why I bother.

 

[AWD_FIEND]

I just love how everyone doesn't listen. Seriously I do this for a living. Like the other guy with the no-start. Everyone pointed to every possible problem and I called ignition switch, low and behold it was. Im just going off the facts you tell me, injector clogging doesn't just happen in 1 minute. Things that happen out of nowhere is usually electrical related. Now take off the return line, have a friend crank the car and see if fuel squirts out of the regulator. It will tell you the fuel pump, main relay, filter is working and you have fuel pressure behind the injectors. Injectors wont work without pressure behind them. Since it started and ran (sorta) on starting fluid, we know the ECU is working, coil is working, wires are working, plugs are working. We have denoted it all down to fuel. It crank, It sparks, there isnt a hole in the block so its got compression, and it starts with starting fluid, so you have a fuel problem. My instructions will test the pump/fuel feel and return system. If it works then its down to the injection system. Which consist of testing for power at the injectors. If it does get it, then its Cam angle sensor, because that is what the ECU uses to know when to trigger the injectors. Its like a Race Car at the light, its running, ready to go, just waiting for the green light. If the announcer or green light person is taking a dump, race is not going to happen. The race car works, the road is there, people are drunk and cheering, no green light, no go.

So listen to the guy who does this for a living, not like I'm going to charge you if I end up helping you here, its free advice. Not like I don't drive one of these things on a daily basis, race it, break it, fix it till my girlfriend wants to dump me over it and thinks I love it more than her (which I do). I don't even know why I bother.

Harsh. You havent suggested anything unique except back probing the injectors. Everyone else who's contributed believes fuel is the cultprit, but because we cant see, hear, or smell what's going on we want to rule out other systems for our own edification. If you read my last post any other way but arbitrarily you would have gleaned the fact we've moved past the FP, and supporting systems. I already supported your advice to test injector voltage, and stated the next culprit is the CAS, the OP may be moving slow, or busy, or ignoring our advice. It happens dont throw a tantrum, if you dont want to contribute then dont. Dont get offended when someone else offers a different approach, and dont believe there arent a lot of people on this board who know as much (or more) than you, that dont wrench for a living. I'm not saying we dont appreciate your input, we do. We would appreciate it more without the rants, and arrogance.

To the OP. We're here to help so please monitor your posts as diligently as possible, and report your findings. Its both polite, and appreciated. Not implying you arent already doing this, just reminding you in case you arent.

 

[eclipsegsxccca]

I just love how everyone doesn't listen. Seriously I do this for a living. Like the other guy with the no-start. Everyone pointed to every possible problem and I called ignition switch, low and behold it was. Im just going off the facts you tell me, injector clogging doesn't just happen in 1 minute. Things that happen out of nowhere is usually electrical related. Now take off the return line, have a friend crank the car and see if fuel squirts out of the regulator. It will tell you the fuel pump, main relay, filter is working and you have fuel pressure behind the injectors. Injectors wont work without pressure behind them. Since it started and ran (sorta) on starting fluid, we know the ECU is working, coil is working, wires are working, plugs are working. We have denoted it all down to fuel. It crank, It sparks, there isnt a hole in the block so its got compression, and it starts with starting fluid, so you have a fuel problem. My instructions will test the pump/fuel feel and return system. If it works then its down to the injection system. Which consist of testing for power at the injectors. If it does get it, then its Cam angle sensor, because that is what the ECU uses to know when to trigger the injectors. Its like a Race Car at the light, its running, ready to go, just waiting for the green light. If the announcer or green light person is taking a dump, race is not going to happen. The race car works, the road is there, people are drunk and cheering, no green light, no go.

So listen to the guy who does this for a living, not like I'm going to charge you if I end up helping you here, its free advice. Not like I don't drive one of these things on a daily basis, race it, break it, fix it till my girlfriend wants to dump me over it and thinks I love it more than her (which I do). I don't even know why I bother.

so true, all of it. no starts are the easiest to figure out. assuming you have about 43psi of fuel,airflow,spark,compression, and timing,test the injectors with noid light or use test light , nothing?-test cam sensor, nothing?-replace ecu, it controls the ground side of the injectors. injectors are always powered with key on.

 

[Sam@RRE]

Harsh. You havent suggested anything unique except back probing the injectors. Everyone else who's contributed believes fuel is the cultprit, but because we cant see, hear, or smell what's going on we want to rule out other systems for our own edification. If you read my last post any other way but arbitrarily you would have gleaned the fact we've moved past the FP, and supporting systems. I already supported your advice to test injector voltage, and stated the next culprit is the CAS, the OP may be moving slow, or busy, or ignoring our advice. It happens dont throw a tantrum, if you dont want to contribute then dont. Dont get offended when someone else offers a different approach, and dont believe there arent a lot of people on this board who know as much (or more) than you, that dont wrench for a living. I'm not saying we dont appreciate your input, we do. We would appreciate it more without the rants, and arrogance.

To the OP. We're here to help so please monitor your posts as diligently as possible, and report your findings. Its both polite, and appreciated. Not implying you arent already doing this, just reminding you in case you arent.

He hasn't confirmed the pump is working. He tried to take off the filter and failed. Just because there was fuel there doesn't mean its actually pumping. If Your fuel system is sealed, there will always be fuel in the lines, car on or off. If the pump worked at one point and now it's dead or wiring went faulty, or half of the MPI relay died, there will still be fuel in the lines. Not as if the lines go dry the moment you turn off the car. I'm giving the OP advice on a simple, free, tool less(sometimes) way to check the entire fuel pump system (lines, filter, regulator, electrical, pump itself) all in one shot in 2 minutes. Then we can move on to the next thing. If you want to play Jeopardy with me about DSM's by all means lets go. I'll take Fuel systems for $10,000 please.

 

[AWD_FIEND]

He hasn't confirmed the pump is working. He tried to take off the filter and failed. Just because there was fuel there doesn't mean its actually pumping. If Your fuel system is sealed, there will always be fuel in the lines, car on or off. If the pump worked at one point and now it's dead or wiring went faulty, or half of the MPI relay died, there will still be fuel in the lines. Not as if the lines go dry the moment you turn off the car. I'm giving the OP advice on a simple, free, tool less(sometimes) way to check the entire fuel pump system (lines, filter, regulator, electrical, pump itself) all in one shot in 2 minutes. Then we can move on to the next thing. If you want to play Jeopardy with me about DSM's by all means lets go. I'll take Fuel systems for $10,000 please.

I guess you didnt see the part about how he disconnected the filter outlet line and primed the fuel system and had fuel gushing out, or maybe I mis-interpreted his meaning. If he really meant he just disconnected the line and fuel gushed out before he tested the FP then my mistake. If thats the case, I guess I shouldnt have assumed the OP knows the difference between residual pressure, and proper fuel system flow. Anyway its not worth butting heads over as this guy isnt responding and obviously isnt very serious about getting help, or repectful of our time, so I'm over it. Good luck with your car bro, dont say we didnt try.

 

[Sam@RRE]

^agreed. Dead end thread.

 

[jrpmp69]

sorry everyone, Ive been out of town and havnt really had a chance to mess with the car, but I will read through the post and let you know the results. I really appreciate everyones input.

sorry i havent replied... thank you everyone for your help,time and patience. i have a few things i need to take care of and i will reply with results asap. again thank you all!!

Ok, I finally got a chance to mess with it this morning, I started by checking the voltage on the injectors and they all read 12.34v, I then read the voltage at the CAS and CAM connector and it read the same on the red wire and 5.03v on the other wire. I took the fuel return line off and there was a small stream of fuel coming out from the regulator. The car still would not start on its own so I sprayed some more starting fluid into the intake manifold and it started right up so I kept spraying to keep it on, after a couple tries of it dying after not spraying anymore starting fluid it decided to stay on so I left it on, after it warms up I will try turning it off and see if it will start again.

Im still lost as to why it didnt want to start on its own if there was spark and fuel.

I really appreciate everyone who took the time to read my thread and really appreciate all the help that you guys have provided me with, hopefully the car will continue to work fine, otherwise I dont know what else to do with it.