6G75 swap into a 1998 GSX?

[Jonnywazz]

Just wondering if that swap is doable? I'm in Ohio, so AWD is awesome, but I have a preference for V6s instead of V4s. If you know of someone that has done this, or just of an estimate cost that would be great as well. Thanks

 

[ramsack]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/350751-eclipse-talon-6g72tt-awd-swap-pics-added.html

That thread will give you a little insight on what you're up for if you really want to do this swap. I only recommend not doing it if you don't have any means to fabricate stuff properly, because it is a heavier engine, with more torque, and if it's not fastened down because of shoddy work, it can hurt or kill you or someone else. That is on a 1g, and they usually have a slight bit more room to work on the engine than in a 2g. With a 6g motor in there it will be a pain to do the simplest things. It is even a pain in the ass working on a VR4 engine in a VR4 chassis, much less an engine bay made for a 4 cylinder. The driveline going to the back and the rear differential should be the easiest things, if it's all going to be from a 3000gt, that is. There is my constructive criticism of the swap. That guy in the other thread seemed to have either left this community or has given up on that project. I saw go for it if you have the money and fabrication skills. An AWD v6 DSM would be sweet to see.

 

[necrotopsy]

the 6G75 is NOT AWD.

6G75

The 6G75 is a 3828 cc version with 95 mm (3.74 in) bore and 90 mm (3.54 in) stroke. Output varies from 172 kW (234 PS; 231 hp) and 339 N·m (250 ft·lbf) to 197 kW (268 PS; 264 hp) and 353 N·m (260 ft·lbf) depending on application. It has forged steel connecting rods.
[edit] Applications

* 2003–present Mitsubishi Pajero (aka Montero/Shogun)
* 2004–present Mitsubishi Endeavor
* 2004–2009 Mitsubishi Galant
* 2006–present Mitsubishi Eclipse
* 2005–2008 Mitsubishi 380

both the pajero and the endeavor have 4wd, but those are both SUVs not cars and 4WD is not AWD. and while i haven't looked into the engine/trans bold patters between the 4g63 and the 6g75, i doubt the transmission of a 4g would fit on a 6g, and even then the axles would most likely not line up with the rear of the car correctly.

i thought i might add that the 6G75 is also available with MiVEC

 

[ramsack]

The 6g75 is just an engine. It's in the 6g family. AWD IS 4WD by the way, just full-time 4WD. 4WD usually just denotes the ability to select 2WD or 4WD. AWD denotes that it is full-time 4WD, so differentials must be added so things don't bind up. I don't know bolt pattern differences, but it is likely that a 3000gt may bolt up to a 6g75. The OP said AWD is awesome, but he has a preference for 6-cylinder engines over 4-cylinder engines. This is where I got the AWD part from. Anyway, the 2 are not related. If you want to keep AWD and do a v6 swap then the best thing would be to try a 6g72 from a 3000gt. That 6a12tt swap seems pointless, still being a 2.0 liter engine.

 

[necrotopsy]

I'm pretty sure there is a difference between the torque split in a AWD vs. 4wd.

4wd = 50/50 power split between front and back.

awd is normally 70/30 split, and if the front or back gets more power depends on the car.

the rest of your post i stand corrected on


i think a 6a13TT would be better choice. would have to import the engine, and it's not cheap. the avenger guys have been talking about doing this swap for forever, but no one feels like paying that much for an engine.

 

[ramsack]

For "4wd" that is locked there is no "power split." Any wheel that slips doesn't matter because they all are spinning at the same speed. So with perfect traction you get 25% to each wheel of torque. But you can't really measure it this way since they are solidly locked together. "AWD" is split by however the manufacturer decides to do it, or it is adjustable by the user within a certain range.

 

[BenGSX]

I'm pretty sure there is a difference between the torque split in a AWD vs. 4wd.

4wd = 50/50 power split between front and back.

awd is normally 70/30 split, and if the front or back gets more power depends on the car.

the rest of your post i stand corrected on


i think a 6a13TT would be better choice. would have to import the engine, and it's not cheap. the avenger guys have been talking about doing this swap for forever, but no one feels like paying that much for an engine.

By your own (flawed) logic, DSM's are 4wd as they have a 50/50 split.

 

[MidShipCivic]

that's because you don't really want to help people. you just want to sit in the "safe box" and hope people accept you. conformity = fail.

I've already been accepted mr lurker.

You're adding a huge mass to the front of your car you're creating an understeering prone car 50:50 car understeer by default, on top of that DSM drivetrains are more moddable and less expensive and 2g DSM's don't all have the same bay.


FWD 3s ppl that drag use a VR4 AWD with a VCU eliminator because the tranmission is basically a FWD DSM trans is much weaker gear tooth aren't as wide, that doesn't avoid anything though the GETRAG although have wider gears they canbreak too and has its own set of issues.

As for your 4wd statment you're wrong.

Part time 4wd = no center differential w/ selectible transfer case.

AWD = is a full time 4wd. Torque split is determined by the gear count on the center differential, can have a selectible drive mode some AUDI did most current awd cars do not.

 

[xclusive_s]

AWD = is full time 4 wheel drive.

 

[MidShipCivic]

AWD = is full time 4 wheel drive.

yeah two people just explained that thanks though.

 

[Hubbell91Tsi]

please do this swap, ive been wanting to build a 6g72 6speed dsm. Im tired of hearing the bullshit about the 6g doesnt make power... 1348awhp is plenty of power... The car is a damn torque monster. People know nothing about the platform and just talk trash on it. Converting a 6g75 to hold the tc isnt that had and modifying the water neck isnt that hard either.

If you want to do it, do it. Dont let the clueless fools stop you from doing it.


I also love how everyone has to make a cute comment about the 'v4'. DSM shit is going old, just becoming full of douchebags.

 

[nuclearr]

I was going to put the 6g75 into my avenger I poked around with the Idea of using the Chrysler Town and Country power train to achieve a awd conversion. I totaled the car so in the end never got any where but in my head. Although I did have a transmission at my disposal, a 3.0 short block, and heads in my garage.

For this much fab you might as well buy a v-6 Avenger or 1g Seabring coupe, or the stratus coupe and 2g seabring coupe. The Stratus coupe and 2g seabring coupe are based on the 3g eclipses. And come with the 3.0.

 

[MidShipCivic]

please do this swap, ive been wanting to build a 6g72 6speed dsm. Im tired of hearing the bullshit about the 6g doesnt make power... 1348awhp is plenty of power... The car is a damn torque monster. People know nothing about the platform and just talk trash on it. Converting a 6g75 to hold the tc isnt that had and modifying the water neck isnt that hard either.

If you want to do it, do it. Dont let the clueless fools stop you from doing it.


I also love how everyone has to make a cute comment about the 'v4'. DSM shit is going old, just becoming full of douchebags.

Did you even comprehend that the OP appears to not even know what type of engine is in his car? How can he even swap a motor without knowing even the basics?

Some of you people .

No one said anything about power levels of any engine for that matter if you wanna get on the subject no 6g car have come close to the 4g powered cars best time yet. (AWD)

 

[EclipticalGS]

please do this swap, ive been wanting to build a 6g72 6speed dsm. Im tired of hearing the bullshit about the 6g doesnt make power... 1348awhp is plenty of power... The car is a damn torque monster. People know nothing about the platform and just talk trash on it. Converting a 6g75 to hold the tc isnt that had and modifying the water neck isnt that hard either.

If you want to do it, do it. Dont let the clueless fools stop you from doing it.


I also love how everyone has to make a cute comment about the 'v4'. DSM shit is going old, just becoming full of douchebags.

I think these "clueless" fools are trying to save his car. When someone says they love v6's compared to 'V4's' that tells me he probably wont have most of the knowledge it would take to; Pull and swap motors, fabricate pipes/necks, install or make a new wiring harness, fab the tranny in, make custom halfshafts, make custom exhaust/ piping.

This isn't a swap even I would try, not because of the difficulty, but because of the nose weight that this will produce, my cars front end already understeers, and i dont need to push anymore weight. Also 6-bolt blocks with 8.5 npr's/stock transmission have been known to handle 450whp all day long, with room to grow. These cars from the factory were designed with the right engine weight to equal the rear, they were designed with the right side to side weight too, swapping this would mess up the whole weight distribution and general handling of the car.

It's really his decision, he posted a question, were giving him answers and our thoughts.
When i post a question, i demand both sides, why/why not.

 

[ramsack]

Well the 3si platform only has the flashable ECU to work with, plus you have to buy more parts to do a certain task. 6 injectors, 6 pistons, 6 rods, 24 valves, springs, etc., work for 2 heads, 4 cam gears, 4 cams. You get my drift. PLUS they don't have something easy like DSMLink for tuning. The cars are also sold way over their already expensive book value. Once ECMTuning figures out something for the 3si ECU like they mentioned they might then the platform can be more viable. It's not all about the 1/4 mile too. Me, if I could afford it, I would rather have a 3si than a DSM.

 

[Tanro]

3S cars handle like shit too. I mean compaired to my DSM, 3S looses hands down. My best friend since 3rd grade owns a 97 3kgt VR-4. It has been broken more than it has been running. When it is running it is slower off the line and through the mid range than my dsm. It weighs a ton, has more body roll, and less turn in. It understeers going into turns, oversteers out of them, and a set of 4 rotors and pads costs more than a good condition 16g. It has very few tuning options, and is hard to work on.

It looks really sexy though.

My dsm is straight the opposite, its cheap, much more reliable when I am not breaking valve covers, or annihilating camshafts by a shear freak of nature. It is lighter and steers a helluva lot better. The game it looses in is top speed and sexiness.

 

[MidShipCivic]

3S cars handle like shit too. I mean compaired to my DSM, 3S looses hands down. My best friend since 3rd grade owns a 97 3kgt VR-4. It has been broken more than it has been running. When it is running it is slower off the line and through the mid range than my dsm. It weighs a ton, has more body roll, and less turn in. It understeers going into turns, oversteers out of them, and a set of 4 rotors and pads costs more than a good condition 16g. It has very few tuning options, and is hard to work on.

It looks really sexy though.

My dsm is straight the opposite, its cheap, much more reliable when I am not breaking valve covers, or annihilating camshafts by a shear freak of nature. It is lighter and steers a helluva lot better. The game it looses in is top speed and sexiness.

I've weighed the DSM 4g63 w/ alt and other accessories it was in the 330lb range I'd put money on it that those 6g 3-3.8 liter blocks are a minumum of 450 with head and this is being very consevative.


Is it a stock 3s Vr4? I notice most of them like to remain ''twin turbo'' and go bigger and bigger they lose a lot of low end power and they completely SHATTER the end casing on their transmissions. They pretty much become the ''Supra big turbo '' peaky power doing it that way.

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[ramsack]

They are "unreliable" because they have a weak fuel system in stock form. It sounds like a dog shit example of a 3000gt. Stock for stock the 3000gt is better in every aspect except for being nimble. They grip like they are on rails. DSM is easier for the modder crowd, and I said why in my last post. If I had tons of money I would choose the heavier, more robust car. It's a different class of car. Grand Touring. GT cars are naturally heavier, wider, and just bigger, and for a reason.

They make a lot of nice stuff, billet, and steel, for the driveline, to replace the weak cast aluminium cases. They only have a 76mm stroke so when you take a little spool away they suffer in the low end of power. But I'd imagine they can be revved nicely.

I like the 3000gt because I like top seed, where they shine.

 

[Chaosweaver]

Just wondering if that swap is doable? I'm in Ohio, so AWD is awesome, but I have a preference for V6s instead of V4s. If you know of someone that has done this, or just of an estimate cost that would be great as well. Thanks

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[97-gst]

Swap in a v8 if your gonna take out the 4g63...

 

[MidShipCivic]

They are "unreliable" because they have a weak fuel system in stock form. It sounds like a dog shit example of a 3000gt. Stock for stock the 3000gt is better in every aspect except for being nimble. They grip like they are on rails. DSM is easier for the modder crowd, and I said why in my last post. If I had tons of money I would choose the heavier, more robust car. It's a different class of car. Grand Touring. GT cars are naturally heavier, wider, and just bigger, and for a reason.

They make a lot of nice stuff, billet, and steel, for the driveline, to replace the weak cast aluminium cases. They only have a 76mm stroke so when you take a little spool away they suffer in the low end of power. But I'd imagine they can be revved nicely.

I like the 3000gt because I like top seed, where they shine.

FD3S, NSX in comparison would be out classing this car only the Supra is close in it's weight department.

Anyone know why Mitsubishi ceased production on it? It probably couldnt compete with the EVO.

3s's are very appealing cars that I can scavenge parts from

 

[ramsack]

The EVO was their rally car. Imagine a 3000gt in a rally. Long wheelbase and heavy. They shine on the big road courses with other GT cars. I would definitely take an NSX over a 3000gt though! I would never take an rx7 of any generation for free!

 

[kmj 4g63t]

v4's exist a lot of Lancia's had them up until the late 60's early 70's, but op should know his car is a I4. I say for a couple weeks do some research on the 4g63t platform and compare it to the v6`s guaranteeing you you`ll think twice. But if you really are set on the v6 come back on and update us on what you really want to do!!

Welcome to the site and welcome to dsm`s. Puts a whole new meaning to DOWN.SEVERAL.MONTHS.

 

[Zac692069]

i say do the swap then send me the old 4g63 for my go kart project!

 

[95twinturboawd]

I've owned 4 3s and 3 dsm . I have drag autoX road races them both. What I have found Is the 3s is better on a road course and a smoother / better dd with better mpg. 3s best 31 DSM best 29. Now the DSM is more nimble cheaper to fix and make go fast. Now we have to remember the 3s is built on a modified 1g platform so wheel base is the same and same parts. And real life lbs vr4/rt/TT are 3600-3800 95/96 rt/tt being the lightest no aws no adj exhust no adj aero no adj suspension DSM are 3100-3300 1g lighter as we all know. And a evoX is about 3700lbs. Now as far as performance a stock GTO MR has run 12.8 they have shorter gearing the the us cars. That have a top speed of 250 but with a 9k rev and tire setup 300+ is do able. My 1st 3s I made 377awhp @5700 397awtq@2500 with about $3k in parts but with my frist 1g I had fast car for about 1k e316g bpu car. I love them both and I love them for what they are. For me my 3s have been more reliable but for both cars I feel this a case of doing the maintenance on time. As for theswap i
I wouldn't do a 6g72/4/5 in a DSM unless you had a few hundred thousand to build a 4.2l 2000awhp+ awd auto drag car. Just mho