600hp cheap head build

[jpmxrider489]

So I got a set 272/272 regrinds. But I found out that I have to use shims. So would I need to get 3g lifters and different springs or can I just get the shims? The stock head can go a far way. I only plan on reving to 8500 if that on my hx40. I heard that manly springs are pretty good and can go without there retainers. So whats you guys think?

 

[codeofdastreets]

I"ve rev"d a stock head with comp 272 cams to 8500, worked out fine.Did it for 6 months till I went with a new setup. Can you do it? yes.Is it safe?no..There is really no cheap way to do it the correct way.

 

[jpmxrider489]

You will not be able to take advantage of the cams with stock springs. Why even upgrade now if you don't have everything you need. The springs are rather easy to swap with the head on the car if you have the right compressor. Something like this will work good.

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Where do you get this? A link?

Sounds like I can do it but I might just get all at once.

 

[BogusSVO]

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Add to that kit a air compressor and a way to inject air and hold it there so the valves do not drop out.

 

[jpmxrider489]

Where do you get that kit? A link? Would stock retainers be ok?

 

[arrowhead]

Just get some real cams, go with the gsc s2 cams with $200 brian crower springs and retainers and 3g lifters if you want. I hate regrinds and shims and over time you will have to add more shims, it just turns into a headache.

Could you expand on this as I am looking to get regrinds.

Was this your experience, shims on regrinds do not alter geometry, lifters 2g or 3 g how do they make any difference on cam.?

If you have to be adding shims later was that because of the cam or the springs getting weaker.?

Are they worth the price difference since maybe I could get 2 different grinds and experiment?

 

[BogusSVO]

Where do you get that kit? A link? Would stock retainers be ok?

The kit can be found on ebay and some tool vendors.

With the Manley springs or the BC1100 springs you can use the stock retainers.

 

[jpmxrider489]

Ill probably get the lifters for now and install my cam then go back and change he rest. For now im on a small 16g so i won't be reviving that high at all. What you think?

Ill see the valve tool made by craftsman but never saw that one.

 

[bryanwheat]

Just look on ebay, there are quite a few different ones on there.

 

[jpmxrider489]

Does anyone see a problem if i just get the lifters and shims while im on a small 16g with not reviving high at all.

 

[bryanwheat]

Why go thru the trouble to install the cams if you can't take advantage of the higher powerband? You will have to take it all back apart to install the springs down the road. Do it right the first time.

 

[BogusSVO]

Your stock springs are in all likleyhood out of spec anyhow.

Read this and you will see why I say this...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341287-how-test-valve-springs.html

 

[clipto]

You will be fine with regrinds. If you are unsure about inserting shims and how they work and what to come of them have someone install the cams. Just do it all at once and save up where u have lifters and springs and cams. Best cheap route is 272 regrinds brian crower springs retainer and 2g lifters is a cheap route for you. But if you want it done once right and quaility products gsc or kiggly beehive springs and retainers, and 3g lifters and gsc s2 cams.

 

[JwpRider]

You will not see significant gains changing to 272's with a 16G. In fact, you may loose some of the low end spool as you are moving the powerband upwards. If you are going to all the trouble to tear into your head, I suggest you 'build' it to your end goals (noted 600HP/HX40). Thus needing upgraded springs. It is way easier to do the springs with the head off, but you will need a nice spring compressor like the one pictured in the earlier post. Here is another one...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/381977-anyone-used-valve-spring-compressor.html

Make sure you don't drop the valve into the motor, thus the suggested air compressor trick. (or feed some rope into your sparkplug hole)

Someone will need to answer if the Manely springs (and stock valves/guides) will work for your goals, I cannot.

 

[jpmxrider489]

So I got a few pics but could only upload 1. I got 3g lifters. I also got unknown brand of "dual springs" and retainers. I was going to test the springs to see if there tough enough. There is no stamps or anything on the springs or retainers. So whats your thaughts? Do dual springs come apart?

 

[jpmxrider489]

Heresy a few more

 

[Sir Joke]

it will work but the time they will work for is the real question. reving that high without springs and retainers is scary business... If its all apart do it once and save yourself.

 

[clipto]

So run what you got only time will tell if they last they last lucky you. Just most advice you will hear is to be on the safe side as there of many of us who have exsperinced many of these things. So use what you got or if you want the cheaper safer get a set of brian crower springs and retainer for $200 I have been using them on hks 272 delta regrinds for 4 years on my other dsm, and only thing sence this last year is needed to add more shims. So Good luck get it together how u want so we can see some dyno numbers.

 

[BogusSVO]

Take them to a machine shop, have them tested.

What is the lift on the cam you want to run?

You will want a min of 70lbs @ 1.560 The 1.560 can be played with some

But the spring must be able to handle the net cam lift say .410 plus .060 before it gets in to spring bind.

so look at your cam card find the net lift and add .060 to it.

 

[jpmxrider489]

To be honest i don't know what profile the cams are. I got them used and was told they were hks profile. Is there a way to see the profile? Im curious to see the springs stiffness.

 

[JwpRider]

Here is the cam profile for the HKS 272's...

INTAKE

* Max Valve Lift: .397"
* Duration @ .050": 192 crank degrees
* Centerline: 102 degrees

EXHAUST

* Max Valve Lift: .379"
* Duration @ .050": 192 crank degrees
* Centerline: 102 degrees

Based on the recommendations in this thread, I want to make sure my 'replacement' springs are also good.
What exactly do I ask the shop to verify? (Not the greatest place, but I think they know how to test springs!)

Here is what I think is required. Please add any missing tests and missings values:

Measure the pressure of the spring (in Lbs) at a Installed Height of 1.560 = (Good is >66Lbs)
Measure the pressure of the spring (in Lbs) at a Height of 1.13 (which is 1.560 -.030 shim - .397 Valve Lift) =(good is ??)
Measure Coil Bind Point = (no more then 1.115?)

Thanks for helping!

 

[BogusSVO]

First find what you have to compress the spring to get a min of 60lbs, 1.560, 1.550, 1.530,1.500

Now add the lift of .397 + .060 = .457
If the coils of the pring are touching at this point, the springs will not work, you still should see some space between the center 3 coils, a min of .030in 2 gap sections of the springs.

 

[TSIBOB]

I was trying to avoid taking the head off. Which is why I ask if its a need to replace the lifters, springs and retainers. People replace cams all the time with the head on the car and even without retiming the car. But I can replace the lifters with the head on and springs. So Ive read that no need for springs if your running 272s. With that said, will I be good just to replace the lifters with shims since they go under the lifter anyway?

How can you replace cams with out haveing to re do the timing???

 

[travs92vr4]

You will not be able to take advantage of the cams with stock springs. Why even upgrade now if you don't have everything you need. The springs are rather easy to swap with the head on the car if you have the right compressor. Something like this will work good.

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+1

Where can we find this product??

Got a link to a website?

 

[govproperty]

I have never used either of these but you can find them almost everywhere. The last one in the list seems like it is very easy to use. I might try it out soon.

Universal OHC/OHV Overhead Valve Spring Compressor Tool | eBay

Amazon.com: CTA Tools 2235 Overhead Valve Spring Compressor Kit: Home Improvement

Sears: Online department store featuring appliances, tools, fitness equipment and more

valve spring compressor valve seal tool Toyota Honda Nissan Mazda Mitsubishi | eBay

 

[bryanwheat]

How can you replace cams with out haveing to re do the timing???

You can't.