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500-600hp clutch suggestions??

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maximumbob said:
http://www.jhracing.net/Ooops.html

So Jake H. are putting the same clutch back in? Was the driveline noise you mentioned like a dog box constant type or just when getting started? Did you put in a clutch stop? Just gathering info seeing as my clutch is trying to die on me and we all got money to burn....right.

Bob

YES! I put the same clutch back in with a Devo/Quartermaster flywheel and a new set of discs. Please keep in mind with the problems I was explaining in the Ooops page on my web site, that there were a few problems that were more time sensitive then not.

First: When I originaly set this clutch up (nearly 2 yrs ago), there was not a flywheel available for this clutch. I had never heard of anyone running this clutch at that time. I took a fidanza flywheel and had it machined to accept the QM clutch. The aluminum flywheel was light, but is not ready to handle twin disc heat.

Second: The disc seating surface of the flywheel was not entirely covering the full face of the inner disc. This caused the pads to tolerate the heat differently and caused some of the sintered bronze pad to come off. You will not have this problem with the Quarter Master flywheel from Devo.

Third: With as nasty as those discs and flywheel look, this setup still managed to hand 600 wheel torque, and pull my car into the mid 9s. The run before the latest 9.53@150 that I just did, I over heated the clutch off the line and caused it to slip the ENTIRE track. I should have gotten off of it, but I dont like letting mustangs win. So on and off the gas, I feathered my way down the track, slipping everytime I was in boost.

With all of that being said, This clutch still performed the next run.

Jake
 
Caithness said:
Any of you guys using a line-lock to preload instead of the e-brake? I could even see setting up a switch on the clutch pedal to automatically release the line lock when you release the clutch.

I tried to launch my buddy's car at the track once, used to driving a street disc car and he had a 4 puck, welded diff. I tried the ebrake preload so I wouldn't snap something, ending up launching with the e-brake still up :LOL:. Didn't quite get the timing down on the first try.

I am not 100% about this But I believe the only person currently using the line-lock with the launch instead of an e-brake is Shep.

I am going to continue to use the e-brake untill given reason to do otherwise.
 
topstreet said:
YES! I put the same clutch back in with a Devo/Quartermaster flywheel and a new set of discs. Please keep in mind with the problems I was explaining in the Ooops page on my web site, that there were a few problems that were more time sensitive then not.
...With all of that being said, This clutch still performed the next run.
Jake


That's awesome to hear that it held the next run. PTT said that disengagement too far can damage the clutch. Is it the same for quartermaster...did you have to put in a new clutch stop or just adjust differently?

Bob
 
Wow Jake...Jake's you guys seem to abuse the hell out of this clutch, and it still performes flawlessly run after run. Jake H. I feel the same way about letting Mustangs win...don't let it happen. I think next time Im out in Chi-town Ill have to swing by DEVO, wish I stopped by when I was out there in July. Looks like this will be the clutch for me:D, and thanks for the hint on the 26" slicks Jake.

Dustin
 
maximumbob said:
did you have to put in a new clutch stop or just adjust differently?

Bob

I just adjusted the pedel so that the floor acted as a stop.

fourreGsixty3 said:
Wow Jake...Jake's you guys seem to abuse the hell out of this clutch, and it still performes flawlessly run after run. and thanks for the hint on the 26" slicks Jake.

Dustin

I have given it the trials for sure. Remember too, that I am putting stroker torque (600wft/lbs) on this thing too.

No problem Dustin!:thumb:
 
I can't wait until I can be putting down stroker power. 600wtq is so sexy. i just want to surpase (sp?) the 425wtq our Jeep SRT-8 is putting out. thats fun to drive, so I know I will love a high TQ DSM.

Dustin
 
I have a question.

Im looking for around 500 hp and high 10 sec time slips. Is this the clutch for me ?

I'm actually going to be building a 2.3l and running a fp-3065 turbo on it. Obviously all the other good stuff too. I already have a shep stage 3 trans so it will handle the power quite easily.

How loud is this clutch, because i dont want this to be so annoyingly loud i cant drive it on the street.

Is there anyway one of you guys can post up a vid your car taking off ? I'm curious how loud it is.

This thread is very interesing. Thanks for the good read.
 
I used to run the PTT clutch, it was great for quick revving, and light pedal pressure, but they warned me heavily about slipping it too much and getting it hot. it was extremely grabby, but i got used to it and was able to drive on the street.

but from the sounds of things, when i get my car back on the road, i am gonna be switching up to the devo/qm setup. ive never tried the preload launch, sounds like a lot better way to go than rev/slip/dump i used to do. looks like ive still got a lot to learn
 
evil_eagle said:
People need to define "streetable" Streetable to me and streetable to another could be 2 different worlds. Is it like driving a stock evo or a lexus? No, not by any means. Can the twin disc be street driven, of course it can. If you don't mind the noisy clutch and don't mind re learning how to use the clutch, then it's no big deal. I drive my car every singal day. lately I have been driving it around 80 miles a day hauling car parts around or whatever the case may be.

The 1st couple of days having this clutch I killed it at stop lights, but after about a week I don't even think about it, it just became a new driving habbit. The clutch is extremely easy to get used to and will withstand any abuse you put it through. The pedal pressure is extremely light so it is easy to use during stop and go traffic. You just need to get the idea out of your head that if you slip the clutch too much it will burn it up. You can slip this clutch all damn day and the clutch just does not care.

Now as far as breaking driveline parts, that is one of the best things about a twin disc clutch, it saves drivetrain parts, alot easier on the syncros as you don't have 30 billion lbs of pressure plate pressure to work with. Your using more of the clutch to shift then the syncros as you would on a ACT clutch. I will say this though, after buying this clutch I will NEVER put a ACT clutch back in the car ever again. I had no idea my tranny can shift as well as it does with this clutch. It just works, simple as that.

People complain about the price of the clutch, well lets step back and look at how much you are just spending in the long run.

ACT clutch on a 600hp car= 20-30 passes with hard launching then the disc is smoked, $110 for a new disc
ACT clutch on a 600hp car= syncro wear accelaration, drivetrain parts ect ect. =$$$

Quartermaster twin disc on a 600hp car = 50-60passes with hard launching $150 for new disc
Quartermaster twin disc on a 600hp car= syncro wear is minimal, and the clutch is designed to slip without burning it up at all. You can pre load this clutch on the line using the e-brake to tighten up the drivetrain parts, axles, driveshaft, t-case ect. = ALOT less drivetrain breakage, I have not broke one singal drivetrain part on my car with the twin disc clutch. I have driven it every singal day about 60-80 miles a day, all the hard passes on the street and several low 10 sec passes, and 3 9sec passes without any problems at all.

Bottom line, if you want a clutch that is going to last longer, shift faster, and alot let drivetrain breakage, then the twin disc clutch is the only way to go. I dunno about you guys but I really hated dealing with the ACT clutch being incosistent, and sliping from time to time at the tracks and costing me a race. The twin disc has never failed me. I can slip the holy hell out of the clutch and not even think twice about it. The clutch is the last thing on my mind anymore.

I really think this sums it up the best. If you would like more info then I am willing to jump in on it (as Im sure others would.)

The noise is not that bad (in my opinion.) It sounds a little like a light screeching belt when you are slipping it out, and kinda sounds like a bad throw out bearing when the pedal is depressed.

Does this answer the questions? If not I can elaborate.

Jake
 
I just dont want a noise that is going to make me hate it everytime i drive the car around town.

Another question is when you guys say lite pedal feel, how lite is it? I've never driven a DSM with a stock clutch so i dont have anything to go off of. I have driven one with a 2600 ACT and my car with a South Bend DXD.

I like having some pressure behind the clutch pedal.
 
I have a feramic full face clutch disk and ACT2100 on my daily driver (5XX whp). I've yet to have it slip on me, in fact the harder I abuse it, the more it seems to stick. This clutch is very similar to the old Gabor setup. If you have a local clutch shop, I would ask them to make one for you.

I like the twin disk clutches. I think they are great, but I can't stand the squealing and the "marble in the can" sound it makes. If I was just racing the car all the time, this clutch would be great. I'm currently considering asking my local clutch guy if he can make feramic disks out of the current twin disk setup that I own. If so, it should hold around 1000 wtq and be as quite as a stock clutch when slipping it out.
 
Rick@AP said:
I'm currently considering asking my local clutch guy if he can make feramic disks out of the current twin disk setup that I own. If so, it should hold around 1000 wtq and be as quite as a stock clutch when slipping it out.

7.25 twin disc is not going to hold 1000 wheel torque.:toobad:

The feramic discs are interesting but I do not believe they will work the way you want it to for the twin disc. When the two feramic discs start to expand do to heat (makes it grab harder in your case) it would cause disengagement and wear issues with the twin. There are different material discs for the 7.25 clutches, and everyone stays the heck away from them. You sacrifice a small amount of noise for extremely greater wear and reduced durability.

Now if you were to use a carbon/ carbon setup then you are ready to spend so much money, that you would have to ask yourself why you are waisting it on a 7.25 twin disc v-drive. If you are spending that kind of cash then you should be looking at the smaller 4.5 3 or 4 disc button styles.

In addition. I wanted to add some info straight from QM that may give you a better understanding about the rev and weight characteristics of it.

"If you demand unsacrificed performance, you will pay a lot of attention to the term "moment of inertia" (MOI). MOI is a ratio that factors in the weight and radius of a rotating object, which together impact the acceleration and deceleration of an object."

Now as a quick example: An 8.5 single disc clutch (no flywheel) from QM weighs 10.83lbs. This assembly has a 114.45lbs MOI. OK a 7.25 V-Drive twin disc weighs 8.78lbs (no flywheel). The MOI is mearly 74.11lbs.

Now imagine the stock pressure plat and disc assembly. Add in the flywheel for more jaw dropping. Just to give you an example in the other direction, Shep uses a 4.5" triple disc carbon/carbon setup. QM also makes on of these that we can use for reference. The 4.5 triple disc carbon/carbon assembly weighs 3.29lbs (w/o flywheel). The MOI of this clutch is ONLY 12.32lbs!

That was the other big point I wanted to make about a light AND small clutch.

Jake
 
Hey Jake (and anyone else doing this dance), how about putting the line lock in the REAR brake line and the switch on the shifter or steering wheel. This would do what the e-brake trick is doing, with an easy/quick release, without all the in car aerobics you are currently doing. Good enough reason to switch?
 
I think that would work well too. I would probably do a 4 wheel or front wheel though, if I did it that way. Put those pretty Wilwoods to use!

But to be honest... The third pass at the track (no prior practice) I nailed this on that mid nine sec pass with trippy staging lights. Time, money, and its working now, are what is keeping me from doing something like that.

Although... If I end up going a little crazier with the weight reduction and swap the rear calipers out for a set of alum. ones, then this would be ideal. Considering that you are loosing the ebrake in the upgrade.
 
This clutch sounds ideal for a 2.4...And I can't believe you guys aren't breaking parts launching like animals! Lol, sorry if I sound like a jackass, but how does a Twin-disc clutch save your tranny? Is it because it has better disengagement or what's the deal. Also, Jake, did you have to adjust the little nut on the master-cylinder assembly to reduce over disengagement, or did you actually have to modify the pedal assembly?
 
Verticaljump1 said:
This clutch sounds ideal for a 2.4...And I can't believe you guys aren't breaking parts launching like animals! Lol, sorry if I sound like a jackass, but how does a Twin-disc clutch save your tranny? Is it because it has better disengagement or what's the deal. Also, Jake, did you have to adjust the little nut on the master-cylinder assembly to reduce over disengagement, or did you actually have to modify the pedal assembly?

You hit all three right on the head!:thumb:
 
So if all you need to do is adjust the slave down to where you disengage just above the floor. Why is it that everytime I read about any twin disc you need to modify your pedal and put a stop on it?
 
Black94DSM said:
So if all you need to do is adjust the slave down to where you disengage just above the floor. Why is it that everytime I read about any twin disc you need to modify your pedal and put a stop on it?

Thats a very valid question... And because no one esle is has responded yet then I will.

Just think for a moment what is being done by a pedal stop being welded or threaded either to the floor or to the pedal assembly. All it is, is a physical abstruction to restrict the pedals ability to over extend. Look at it how ever you will, the pedal just needs to stop. So as long as you are not pulling the piston out of the clutch master cylinder, the floor serves as just as good of a barrier as anything else. This would be your prefferance though. If you (or any body else) are the type to be over extending your leg and not able to comfortably drive with the pedal closer to the floor, then put a stop in it higher in the pedal travel. My seats sit a little lower than stock and my legs are more comfortable being extended. This works well for me.

Some sort of a stop is required. With very first hand experiance of this, I will tell you that the noises your brand new QM clutch will make if the pressure plate teeth hit the disc, is a very scary sound. OMG MY $$ CLUTCH! ha!

Simple put "Get R Done!" Welding new sheet metal, threaded bolt in the floor, the floor it self, tennis ball.... What ever it takes.

Jake H
 
I guess that makes more sence now that you say and I think about it. I guess I was just confussed on it because im a taller person and I know that it would feel weird if the clutch was being engaged and disengaged in the middle of the clutch sweep.

Thanks for the answer.
 
I've got another question on this clutch. People say its got light pedal feel. Stock to almost lighter than stock feel.

Now I'm used to having a pedal give me a fight back when I push down on it. With it now going to be much lighter its going to be weird. I dont like the feeling of having to lift my foot up to let the clutch out, I like the pedal wanting to do that for me.

With this clutch that wont happen, is there a way I can add springs to the clutch assembly to give more resistance to my foot ? This way only the pedal assembly will be wanting to come back up.

My idea is to make the pedal feel tough, but with this clutch not pushing all the pressure on the slave and master cylinder.

Hope I made that clear enough...
 
jasonlee said:
I used to run the PTT clutch, it was great for quick revving, and light pedal pressure, but they warned me heavily about slipping it too much and getting it hot. it was extremely grabby, but i got used to it and was able to drive on the street.

but from the sounds of things, when i get my car back on the road, i am gonna be switching up to the devo/qm setup. ive never tried the preload launch, sounds like a lot better way to go than rev/slip/dump i used to do. looks like ive still got a lot to learn

May I ask why?
 
I Don't lift when going down the track using No lift to shift on dsmlink... Its actually the smoothest shifting ever @ 8500-9rpms the tranny goes in like butter... It feels like an automatic when going down the track.. Its helped so much I've made over 400 passes in the last 2 years on stock 150K drivetrain and a Shep tranny... Im currently building a 2.4L shortblock and I;m almost done with the head, the block is complete... With such great reviews I'm thinking I will pick one of these Devo clutches up and give it a try... The 2.4L with a t-67 bb should work great with this clutch Thanks for the reviews guys..:D
 
to the guys with the Devo clutch how many miles would you expect out of it on the street with just weekend racing? I am interested in getting one I just dont want some thing I am gonna have to mess with all the time.
 
black91awdturbo said:
to the guys with the Devo clutch how many miles would you expect out of it on the street with just weekend racing? I am interested in getting one I just dont want some thing I am gonna have to mess with all the time.

All depends on what disks you decide to use with it. Atleast dealing with the PTT clutch. I would look into a PTT clutch before I would a Devo. It also depends on your driving style.
 
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